Suprisingly strong reaction to the humble poppy seed tea

[stonewolf]

Every now and then I make a nice poppy seed tea when I feel the need to chill out without paranoia or other nasty side effects. Tonight I used a little more than I usaully do, 700 grams, and found myself nodding in and out of reality for a good 3 hours. It left every bit as strong as smoked opium or poppy pod tea. I'm not sure of the purpose of this topic because I'm still feeling spaced out as can be, but I guess its a warning of sorts for other people such as myself who dont have a huge amount of experience with it to not take it lightly. Has anyone else had experiences like this? 4 hours after ingestion I still feel amazing, which certainly isnt bad for $9 spent in the cooking ile. It has caught me off gaurd because the morphine content must have been pretty damn high to leave me nodding, given I've never used copious amounts of opiates, just dabbled in case of addiction occuring.

[sobriquet]

Every now and then I make a nice poppy seed tea when I feel the need to chill out without paranoia or other nasty side effects. Tonight I used a little more than I usaully do, 700 grams, and found myself nodding in and out of reality for a good 3 hours. It left every bit as strong as smoked opium or poppy pod tea. I'm not sure of the purpose of this topic because I'm still feeling spaced out as can be, but I guess its a warning of sorts for other people such as myself who dont have a huge amount of experience with it to not take it lightly. Has anyone else had experiences like this? 4 hours after ingestion I still feel amazing, which certainly isnt bad for $9 spent in the cooking ile. It has caught me off gaurd because the morphine content must have been pretty damn high to leave me nodding, given I've never used copious amounts of opiates, just dabbled in case of addiction occuring.

I can honestly say that what you are describing is very easily a slippery slope to nasty addiction. Where you're having withdrawal symptoms and means you need to use or think about the drug constantly.

File the experience you've had away and don't do it again. The warm blanket of poppies is potentially a road to hell and breaking an opium habit can be more difficult than getting off heroin.

Most people who've used opiates are addicted in a sense. Even if that usage is infrequent, if thinking about the poppy and it's products gives you a knowing sensation then you're addicted in a sense. You know you will use it again some time. Maybe not in a compulsive way, but you will. And your foot is always standing on soap.

I'm just giving you a warning so you know what you are getting into. Perhaps you already know, but be very very careful and if you are smart you'll never do what you've done today again. Flirting with opium is a dangerous game. And I must be on one of my very cautious moments right now because normally I wouldn't give a toss as to what anyone else did. But the potential for disaster is really there. Poppies have two sides to them. Unfortunately the nasty side is the one that takes over from any pleasantness given time.

Take care.

Edited August 10, 2006 by eNo

[elzar]

I seem to recall reading about poppy seed tea in this forum somwhere where it said that the effects in the tea are more related to the alkaloids present in the seed rather than those which are found in the resin. It also mentioned the risk of overdose.

Heres the link http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...=poppy+seed+tea

Might make for an interesting read. Hopefully ure all good now anyway stonewolf.

Edited August 10, 2006 by elzar

[sobriquet]

I seem to recall reading about poppy seed tea in this forum somwhere where it said that the effects in the tea are more related to the alkaloids present in the seed rather than those which are found in the resin. It also mentioned the risk of overdose.

Heres the link http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...=poppy+seed+tea

Might make for an interesting read. Hopefully ure all good now anyway stonewolf.

I don't know about seed alkaloid content as that is repeatedly found to be non existent in scientific reports I've read.

What is definite is contamination of the seed by capsule latex when processing. I don't know what brand of poppy seeds stonewolf scored but in some packets you can definitely see the seeds stuck together in clumps.

When a friend has tried sucking seeds from such packets she has found she becomes quite warm and fuzzy if she hasn't used opiates for a time. I think it depends on the packet you score as to the alkaloid content.

stonewolf has obviously chance upon a batch or brand that has more latex contaminant. That's my theory anyhow.

[onz]

Even if that usage is infrequent, if thinking about the poppy and it's products gives you a knowing sensation then you're addicted in a sense.

This statement akin to the old religious condemnation: (not direct quote) 'that whoever looketh upon a women with any feeling of attraction has already committed adultery.' Which is absolutely rediculous.

Don't get me wrong man, I know your just thinking of harm minimisation, and trying to help. But I'm just sick of people blaming drugs (not specifically opiates), instead of choice. You CHOOSE to use again. I hear people say 'marijuana destroys lives', c'mon, its SO easy to blame, and that blame leads to less self-control.

I've had two absolutely beautiful experiences with opiates over the past 2 years. And most of the time during year 12 I was drawing poppy pods throughout all my workbooks, so yeah your statement got to me abit. But I fully understand where its coming from. And for the most part agree with your warning.

Everything I've read about opiate withdrawels scares the shit outta me and I could never re-use the next day because of that. Opiates do have an incredibly sad side, most of the people on poppies.org are beautiful people, but the thought of them coming down puts a sad look in my eye. So I don't visit there anymore.

[stonewolf]

Excellent! That explains why the seeds stuck together so damn much and I got such strong effects, the latex being present on the outside of the seeds that is. I felt like I must have been crazy after reading that it was just alkaloids from inside the seeds, but what Eno said about latex from the pod matches up nicely with the seeds I had. It honestly felt like smoking opium..though the onset was different because I ingested it. Still riding a lovely warm calm and glad I didn't have the largest placebo of my life.

I can see danger in it though..feeling this good certainly cant be natural.

[sobriquet]

This statement akin to the old religious condemnation: (not direct quote) 'that whoever looketh upon a women with any feeling of attraction has already committed adultery.' Which is absolutely rediculous.

Don't get me wrong man, I know your just thinking of harm minimisation, and trying to help. But I'm just sick of people blaming drugs (not specifically opiates), instead of choice. You CHOOSE to use again. I hear people say 'marijuana destroys lives', c'mon, its SO easy to blame, and that blame leads to less self-control.

I've had two absolutely beautiful experiences with opiates over the past 2 years. And most of the time during year 12 I was drawing poppy pods throughout all my workbooks, so yeah your statement got to me abit. But I fully understand where its coming from. And for the most part agree with your warning.

Everything I've read about opiate withdrawels scares the shit outta me and I could never re-use the next day because of that. Opiates do have an incredibly sad side, most of the people on poppies.org are beautiful people, but the thought of them coming down puts a sad look in my eye. So I don't visit there anymore.

I wasn't posting it as a sermon. Believe me when I say I know the pleasures of opiates. And I've read the unfortunate stories on poppies.org also and yeah it really makes me sad too when I read from some of the old timers there who are clever, witty and just plain nice people who suffer every day because they thought they could be the exception who could control it.

I'm humbled by their experiences and just remember the addage of --- Learn from mistakes, but make it the mistakes of others and not your own.

I've only ever been truly addicted to one substance in my life. Nicotine which I used for 7 years before I gave up 4 years ago cold turkey. I know at least that form of addiction and can only imagine how bad it must be to have the 800 pound gorilla of opium on your back.

[sobriquet]

Excellent! That explains why the seeds stuck together so damn much and I got such strong effects, the latex being present on the outside of the seeds that is. I felt like I must have been crazy after reading that it was just alkaloids from inside the seeds, but what Eno said about latex from the pod matches up nicely with the seeds I had. It honestly felt like smoking opium..though the onset was different because I ingested it. Still riding a lovely warm calm and glad I didn't have the largest placebo of my life.

I can see danger in it though..feeling this good certainly cant be natural.

I can imagine how great it felt. What brand were the seeds btw?

[stonewolf]

I can imagine how great it felt. What brand were the seeds btw?

I'm not sure actaully, I pick them up at an Italian Fruit Store/supermarket, I'll check tommorow. Going with the australian seeds are opiate free theory they might be imported from italy, because the majority of the stores patrons are old Italians who can barely speak a word of english and prefer everything Italian.

[Pala]

I'm humbled by their experiences and just remember the addage of --- Learn from mistakes, but make it the mistakes of others and not your own.

I was wondering about that. Sure, its noble, but I wonder if anyone (at least around here) is its patron.

To any who has:

• Smoked - did you not know about nicotine-cancer link?

   

• THC - did you not know about the danger it poses to those with dispositions to schitzophrenia (sp? )

   

• E - did u not know about impurity dangers?

   

NOTE: did that quickly. some of the points may be arguable/rubbish, but my point is that most people don't necessarily compile facts before they act, and even when they do, they're more than likely to ignore them.

I agree that, eg. fear of heroin, has influenced the chances of my ever partaking in that drug, but unfortunately fear-tactics are (almost?) always more effective than dispersion of information.

[nabraxas]

I've only ever been truly addicted to one substance in my life. Nicotine which I used for 7 years before I gave up 4 years ago cold turkey. I know at least that form of addiction and can only imagine how bad it must be to have the 800 pound gorilla of opium on your back.

from all reports i've heard, nicotine is far harder to quit than heroin/opium.

[wandjina]

I've known many opiate addicts over the years, and all of them told me, without hesitation, that cigarettes were harder to quit than gear. Of the few hard-core addicts i know who've gotten clean, all continued to smoke.

I used opiates for several years, and although I was never physiologically dependant...there was an element of psychological dependancy i guess...but i never felt i had to 'stop', or even try to...life changed and I just didn't do it anymore, or find it as appealing as I once did.

Some of my nearest and dearest weren't so lucky...

But, even knowing this, i object to the demonisation of any drug, or to anyone speaking with an air of authority when there is obviously little direct experience.

It's different for everyone...yes, poppy tea can be dangerous...but so can anything. Remember Paracelsus...'the only difference between a medicine and a poison is the dosage'.

[sobriquet]

...

Edited August 11, 2006 by eNo

[gomaos]

just adding my own experiences, hope no-one will get upset because they may vary from the rest of you'se...

only ever tried poppy extract/poppy washes a few years ago, never when i was young.

When I was young I stuck to Tim Leary's guidelines:

Psychedelics good/narcotics bad (thanks Tim)

Many friends of mine wasted away on the needle/heroin, even died from it...

my first experiences from poppy extract were quite overwhelmingly beautiful and amazing.

tried poppy seed washes later, mainly because they're so easily available.

As far as I know the seed contains no alkaloids, it's only the opium that clings to the outside of the seeds.

Some brands are stronger than others.

It probably depends what poppy variety is grown for the seeds, or if they have been washed or not.

Perhaps they can't wash them easily, that explains why we have such good stuff available in shops...

it's true that "poppy wash addiction" can lead to iv heroin-use, but then that stuff is horribly expensive and most users (of needles) have to turn criminal to support their addiction.

This fact should turn most people off.

Unless they are suicidal, in which case it may even be better if they become addicts until they get over their suicide-phase and recover their will to survive (this is not hypothetical, I actually know ppl who admit to this).

The occasional poppyseed-wash won't hurt anyone, if they are aware they are actually toying with opium.

Personally, I find it less addictive than alcohol (brrr, horrible drug that alc, yuk!)

Also for ppl who are already addicted in some way to morphine, this is the easiest way out.

Su here's the easiest way to make poppy-wash:

Buy 250-500g poppy seed (250 g if no tolerance), put in bowl or large container.

Add 1-2 bottles of soft drink, it's the fizzy stuff that cleans the alkaloids off the seeds, stir, maybe let sit for 30 minutes, then filter through tea strainer, serve into glass(es) and drink.

Doesn't even taste bad, vaguely resembles alcoholic drinks.

Cheers!

[wandjina]

The occasional poppyseed-wash won't hurt anyone, if they are aware they are actually toying with opium.

Personally, I find it less addictive than alcohol (brrr, horrible drug that alc, yuk!)

Couldn't agree more Gom....if ppl are aware of what they're doing, no more dangerous than many other 'drugs'.

Alcohol...yep...not a good feeling that yearning for a drink....or ten. All too easy and socially acceptable

[devance]

Brings back a memory of a James Bond movie where the evil guy says ' he has aquired a harsh mistress, heroin'

getting/paying for the opiates is the second harsh mistress

Don't know anything about it but a very expensive habit from all reports..

[sobriquet]

The occasional poppyseed-wash won't hurt anyone, if they are aware they are actually toying with opium.

While I agree that this is not by itself terribly hazardous if one takes precautions. For example in your 250-500g scenario I would probably divide the washes into at least two doses and down one and wait half an hour on an empty stomach before drinking the second.

Nevertheless anyone who knows the overwhelming warmth of the opiates and has had the experience is in a sense addicted to it in that they would repeat the experience if given the opportunity. Some people can control the living of that experience and others can't. They become compulsive, because there's no other experience in their life that can beat it. It's an easy way of getting on a vehicle which hugs and carresses one and insulates you from the outside world. Indescribably nice.

And if it stopped at occasional poppy seed washes then there may never be a problem as addiction is a little impractical. It's when you realise that the opiates are almost entirely interchangeable that the issues can begin. That downing several panadeines or poppy pods can give you the same warmth and euphories you desire. That releasing a tourniquet from an arm loaded and ready with opiates can bring on that rush of warmth in a moment that the see-saw can suddenly be tilted the way you don't want.

I don't apologise for pointing out that it can be a slippery slope. Take it from me, that it's a hazardous road albeit a road of wondrous euphoria at times. A seductive road, a road that will call to you throughout your life once you've been on it. It's resisting it and controlling it that is difficult. Casual use can quickly take over your life.

I'm just helping to make it an informed choice rather than an unfortunate path to the horrors of addiction unwittingly.

[John_Barleycorn]

I regard tea as a gift for those mornings when panadeine is just not enough. Since this only happens every couple of weeks, I don't personally feel there is too much danger of myself wanting to chase that sensation every day. In fact, I'd probably get bored just like I did with MJ, although that clearly doesn't apply to other people. Truth of the matter is, the only substance I can't give up despite trying is alcohol. Thank God I don't do ciggies - a close mate of mine just died of lung cancer at age 47.

[mycomorphosis]

Has anyone else had experiences like this? 4 hours after ingestion I still feel amazing, which certainly isnt bad for $9 spent in the cooking ile. It has caught me off gaurd because the morphine content must have been pretty damn high to leave me nodding, given I've never used copious amounts of opiates, just dabbled in case of addiction occuring.

Yes, I can certainly relate to the intensity and duration of such an experience. I recall many a night of opiate induced bliss (nodding and puking included) at the hands of poppy seed tea, regularly lasting 8-10 hours. There were even a few occasions where I believe I may have come close to OD. I think your words of warning are justified stonewolf; my experience tells me that poppy tea is up there in the ranks with the "harder" opiates, both in it's effects and it's risk factor for addiction.

I personally took my poppy tea usage too far, and regrettably wound up moving on to heroin. This was obviously a very bad move on my behalf, and I'm still living with the repercussions of these choices two years down the track (probably will be for the rest of my life too). But that's not to say that you or anybody else will follow the same path I did. I'm just sharing my own experience for what it may be worth. The potential for addiction is certainly there, and unfortunately, that is something I completely overlooked (or thought I was above..?) when I embarked on my recreational poppy seed usage. It's good to see that many others seem to have a more realistic perspective.

As for the idea that cigarettes are harder to kick than heroin, the first word that comes to mind is BULLSHIT!!! I can only speak from my own experience, but I would have to strongly disagree with this notion. While I acknowledge the fact that nicotene may be scientifically considered more addictive than heroin, I just don't feel the two can realistically be put in the same category. I mean, perhaps the psychological trauma of quitting either substance could compared (although I'm not really convinced of that either), but the physical withdrawals from heroin (shaking, sweating, vomiting, fever, diarrhea, severe cramping, just to mention a few), just seem to be completely unparalleled by the cravings and physical stress faced when kicking cigarettes. I don't wish to trivialise the difficulty of overcoming a nicotene addiction because obviously that is a huge accomplishment by any standard. Personally though, I'd choose cigarette withdrawal over heroin withdrawal any day of the year.

But again, that's just my own experience, and of course, it doesn't make anybody else's opinion any less valid.

Edited August 13, 2006 by mycomorphosis

[wandjina]

As for the idea that cigarettes are harder to kick than heroin, the first word that comes to mind is BULLSHIT!!! tongue.gif I can only speak from my own experience, but I would have to strongly disagree with this notion. While I acknowledge the fact that nicotene may be scientifically considered more addictive than heroin, I just don't feel the two can realistically be put in the same category. I mean, perhaps the psychological trauma of quitting either substance could compared (although I'm not really convinced of that either), but the physical withdrawals from heroin (shaking, sweating, vomiting, fever, diarrhea, severe cramping, just to mention a few), just seem to be completely unparalleled by the cravings and physical stress faced when kicking cigarettes. I don't wish to trivialise the difficulty of overcoming a nicotene addiction because obviously that is a huge accomplishment by any standard. Personally though, I'd choose cigarette withdrawal over heroin withdrawal any day of the year.

You are absolutley right...i don't think anyone meant to argue that kicking tobacco, ie the act itself, is easier than heroin withdrawal. That is a ridiculous notion. I should have made myself clearer.

Many years ago I was in a relationship with a (ostensibly) former addict who introduced me to 'recreational' use (every pay day/fortnightly mostly), and along with his ex and many of our mutual friends...there was this attitude of...' i got off the gear...but there's no way I could ever stop smoking ciggies'...the way people would express this was that it was in some sense harder to stop smoking than it was to get clean.

Perhaps this is because smoking is a habit that, by comparsion, seems innocuous? (...funny at NA meetings, where all drugs are supposed to be taboo, everyone chain-smokes). Withdrawal from heroin is excrutiating...I've not experienced it myself, but seen it first hand, there is no comapring the physical and psychological agony to quitting tobacco....but I'd argue that in all habits, in ay addiction, there is a common thread.

I was very, very, lucky to not develop a physiological addiction ...and lucky to be alive because I survived what my partner did not...the same dose of the same gear on the same day.

I've lost three loved ones to heroin, and many aquaintences...and I just find it so hard to put poppy seed tea in the same catagory....or see it as a gateway drug, because it was quite the opposite for me.

but, like you said, this is my experience, and doesn't invalidate anyone elses opinion.

Edited August 13, 2006 by wandjina

[nabraxas]

^ i think also that as your body becomes clean ov heroin it's like waking up from a dream. i think a certain clarity ov thought returns which makes it easier to see how far removed from "reality" the heroin addiction had taken you (i believe the same could be true w/the recovering alcoholic ?). that initself is a strong motivator to not relapse.

however there is no such "reward" w/giving up cigarettes, so less motivation not to give into the cravings.

SWIM told me they gave up using H 3 years ago & they may get mild cravings maybe every 3 months, but they never act on them. the same person gave up cigarettes a year ago & recons he still gets strong cravings every single day which he has succumbed to at least 3 times.

i consider the alleged withdrawals from heroin (shaking, sweating, vomiting, fever, diarrhea, severe cramping, just to mention a few) as BULLSHIT.

i completely agree w/Theodore Dalrymple's new book, "Romancing Opiates: Pharmacological Lies and the Addiction Bureaucracy" (amazon link) which

asserts that everything we know about opiate addiction is a myth, arguing that even withdrawal from opiates is "grossly exaggerated as a phenomenon" and at its very worst, "like flu, but usually much less severe than that." [Frontpage Magazine, July 5th, 2006]

oh, & of course, like you said, this is SWIM's experience, and doesn't invalidate anyone elses opinion,

Edited August 13, 2006 by nabraxas

[Pelinster]

SWIM told me they gave up using H 3 years ago & they may get mild cravings maybe every 3 months, but they never act on them. the same person gave up cigarettes a year ago & recons he still gets strong cravings every single day which he has succumbed to at least 3 times.

i consider the alleged withdrawals from heroin (shaking, sweating, vomiting, fever, diarrhea, severe cramping, just to mention a few) as BULLSHIT.

Man, your fucking joking right?

Following the biggest Heroin habit I have ever had I was arrested and put into a holding cell.. Within 6 hours of my last "hit" I went into non stop vomiting. As well as this the pain was so excruciating that I was kicking the side of the steel bed in the holding cell with my shin to override the constant "hum" in every nerve of my body. I went through an entire night of this. My shins were both bleeding (which honestly felt good) and I was now throwing up blood. Lucky for the blood because it prompted the guard to call an ambulance for me. I then spent an entire week in hospital with nothing but the foulest liquid turd uncontrollably leaking from my ass into the bed sheets continuously as I vomited up everything they tried to give me orally whilst entering in and out of constant seizures. They kept me in the hospital for a week. On top of this my heart was playing up and even through the guards demanded I be taken to the prison hospital the doctor flat out refused. After a week he agreed to release me after speaking to a doctor at the gaol hospital to which I was taken and then spent just over another week.

It was about 4 months of counselling and exercise following this before I was really feeling normal again. The stupid thing is that I relapsed about 3 years after this event. Because of Poppy seed tea!. Well he was not to blame entirely, but trying it led me back down the path.

I have resigned to the fact I will crave opiates for the rest of my life. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't try and rationalise having a taste and trying to manage it again.

Secondly I started smoking when I was 11. Following the first time I quit Heroin, (not the time mentioned above and only about half as bad, which was still the worst living nightmare I had ever encountered at the time) I quit smoking within 8 months. Mainly because how pale in comparison the nicotine addiction was. It really put smoking in perspective.

Thirdly, when I was in prison, during the incident above, I took up smoking again. Simply to try and have something to look forward to during the terrible sleepless weeks of pain and fatigue. Once I was completely well again and stable I quit smoking again. I can safely say that in my experience, a big decent Heroin habit will make nicotine addiction a joke, really. I guess the only reason I might find giving up smoking difficult when compared to Heroin addiction would be if I had the attitude that "well, its the lesser evil and I could do it any time". Simply put there isn't such a demand to quit smoking instantly when compared to the damage an $800 a day Heroin habit does to your life.

Edited August 14, 2006 by Pelinster

[PD.]

i consider the alleged withdrawals from heroin (shaking, sweating, vomiting, fever, diarrhea, severe cramping, just to mention a few) as BULLSHIT.

i completely agree w/Theodore Dalrymple's new book, "Romancing Opiates: Pharmacological Lies and the Addiction Bureaucracy" (amazon link) which

lol, it is bullshit.........well thats what ya keep saying whilst rolling around on the bed in agony, "bullshittttttttt, fuckinnnnn bullllshitttttt, fark thiiissssss bulllshhhittttttttt.

It really hurts dude, alot.

[stonewolf]

Secondly I started smoking when I was 11 following the first time I quit Heroin

Please say that is a typo...smoking at 11 is a curious young kid..but heroin at 11...I honestly dont think I could have got any had I wanted to till i was 16 or 17.

[nabraxas]

Man, your fucking joking right?

like i said, this is SWIM's experience, and doesn't invalidate anyone elses opinion,

& Pelinster--have you given up cigarettes? if you have, on a day to day basis which do you miss most H or cigs?

Edited August 14, 2006 by nabraxas