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Exactly, although MtGox already has a dubious past and this may just be the nail in the coffin for them. I'm skeptical gox will be around for much longer...or at least with 1/10th of its market base.

on MtGox, that is now a 'tier 2' exchange. In Australia they're trading at ~AU$735.1957 /btc - Coinjar @ 2% commission. * Not a plug for coinjar, just reiterating the point that MtGox is not a good source for price average any longer. But other exchanges, that are operating as normal still are. Try http://bitcoinity.org but in the top middle choose an exchange other than Mtgox

This general pm is probably suited to be plonked here too for everyone to view and get another perspective. -- haha, yea I'll give you a quick run down on how I'm seeing the current situation. But bear in mind, that my advice holds no water - as I'm not a 'real' financial adviser - I'd also like to remind you that, if your financial position does not allow you to put away $x for a year minimum without you needing to dip into it, BItcoin is too risky for you to apart of your investment portfolio. Not to say you can't earn btc... Selling things on this site, working, etc...Just let it be know that you're also willing to accept btc alongside $.. Ok, MtGox, one of the largest and highest volume exchanges has...crumbled under it's own weight and incompetence. (This is a good thing...In the long run*) As such, the goto place for determining what the average price for a single BTC was to see what it was being traded for there. Now of course, due to them being heavily locked down and provably a risky platform to do trading on, people aren't trading on there - leading to a perceived drop in btc value. (Which is true - although not to the price it displays on that one exchange... And keeping in mind that its charts to have an impact on other exchanges and speculators that now interpret the price as plummeting when in reality its still moderately stable - only changing by the $100-$200 because of market trends that speculators and trade bots follow somewhat blindly without determining the reasoning for the market moves. The reason for the failings was improper record keeping. Instead of using the authoritative blockchain as their reference point of validity they simply kept their own record of tx's...And their records were flawed because of a known quirk in the bitcoin protocol code. Nothing that really affected the wider bitcoin user community in any way that compromised security. * The good the comes from this is that there now will be a higher degree of exchange decentralization. No longer will 60,70,80% of exchange volume be held on one site that - as we're seeing now, when fuck up, takes a lot of toll on the image of Bitcoin. This means the prev users of MtGox...if they still want to use/ trade bitcoin, will have to find alternate means...providing a larger customer base to all these other exchanges..making for a wider and more resilient bitcoin ecosystem. As far as time goes... This will take a while to recover. 1-2 months for calming the market and allowing for an understanding of what happened and the implications of it..instead of fear mongering and panic buying / selling...then hard to tell if it'll be seeing the 1000 mark within those 2 months or maybe even upto 4 mths. The future is hard to predict, and there's no doubt going to be more hiccups, speed bumps, red tape and nay-sayers along the way but beside that there is also the growing saturation of people hearing about Bitcoin for the first time, business realizing its money saving advantages and people in general waking up to the damage we're letting be inflicted upon us and our future by continuing to live within and accept the unsustainable and widely non- beneficial debt based economics system we have in place today - Almost world wide. ... I might just post this into the forum discussion. But yea, hope that gave a bit of insight into the current happenings. But by no means is it a full account of every facet that is determining the price and movements and future of Bitcoin. Just an opinion piece.

In person is the safest of these.... I'd steer away from bank transfers etc with randoms. (if using localbitcoins) May I ask what issue you've had with Coinjar? I've found it easily the simplest method to buy by farrrrrr ( and with e very good commission rate 2%) https://localbitcoins.com/ or this (but probs more costly. less risk though) I've had experience with spendbitcoins too. (Cash deposit at a bank branch after setting up a quote on their site) - 10% commission rate though :/ https://spendbitcoins.com.au/ As I understand the current situation, right now is a pretty good buying opportunity. MtGox, previously the highest volume exchange...Is fucking up basically. Their method of transaction accounting was flawed and did not cross reference the blockchain. I cbf writting up an indepth explanation to the intricacies and implications of this... Personal reaseach is the best, but remember there's also a lot of dis info out there of people wishing to cause more fear in the market to buy in after an even larger drop. TL;DR MtGox is no longer a good price reference point. Don't look at it and think 'oh that's what they're worth now' (Because that's only what they're worth on the exchange where btc are locked up Nd disabled from withdrawing from the site, so people are selling heavily on there to get it into $ and cashing out that way...In fear of getting nothing.

Heya everyone, Just thought I'd take the opportunity to hopefully benefit from any and all of the advice you might be able to offer to a guy keen on the whole thing but a complete novice. I've made a nice sum from my earlier investments into Bitcoin and am now looking to branch out a portion of that money into a more physical and workable revenue stream. I'd be enormously grateful for anything you might be able to contribute! I'll break it down so maybe any of your thoughts can be more easily directed. I'm looking into getting some property. Mostly plant based agriculture with maybe chickens or something for eggs (possibly beekeeping). Land between $50,000 - $500,000..with the upper end only if myself and friends pool funds. Looking to start this as in investment / 'gap year' opportunity. Spending a year minimum on building and renovating a farm into a scalable residents that provides through being a permaculture property. How many people do you think would be manageable? What kind of acreage? Sought after professions/expertise? Other expansions to this I might have overlooked? Hidden costs? Upkeep? Solar / wind / ??? integration and initial costs? Being from an I.T background I'm interested in setting up some semi automated systems based on aquaponic and hydroponic setups. Large scale edible mushroom production would also be quite viable. Is this a dangerous idea to be undertaken by a relatively amature hobbyist such as myself. What would be good crops? Locations (Vic)? Your experiences? Does anyone here own any large properties that's for farming or was previously? I'm also a little concerned (a lot really) about locations that are prone to bush fires... Not sure how to go about minimising that risk factor. Ok before I make this look any worse... I'll finish now before massacring your eyes with this shocking formatting. Hope to hear ya ideas :D LUWA ._.

Save on the AUD->YEN->USD->AUD exchange fees and buy from Australia. 2% buy fee 1.4% sell. Get bank account verified for online transactions and be able to buy and sell and have that money back in your account within the week. They also sell pretty cheap based on market prices elsewhere.. $944~. https://filler.coinjar.com/

Shit, that's awesome. Maybe consider paper-crete as a building medium too? http://www.instructables.com/id/I-Love-Papercrete/ Whats the council regulation difficulty on getting these buildings approved if you've come to that stage yet? This is exactly what I've been dreaming of doing - If it weren't so far away from Vic, I'd be up there now... Perhaps a shipping container building or underground bunker would be suitable if bush fires are a threat there? I've got a welder with hopes of eventually customising my own contaier into a DIY house. Gourmet mushrooms would be a sweet thing to get going round there for a side income too. If you don't mind me asking - Whats the acreage size and est. pricetag for it? (With dams or any pre built structures / mains?) Awesome plans though, wish yu the best for it.

Yes, very much so. The ideology behind Bitcoin as a form of exchange is as follows. What money is and what value is entirely subjective. This means that each person should be free to choose what they wish to trade with. Of course somethings trade better than others as mentioned in my prev post. Eg. bread has utility as food, metal as xyz. Each person should be free to pick what they hold as a means of storing and transacting their wealth. Having an issuing authority give arbitrary value to something by decree, then enforce its usage by way of requiring citizens to pay taxes and other govt programs solely in it. This allows them to inflate that fiat money. If there was only $10 total, gum cost $1 then another $10 is printed - Gum costs $2(or twice as much because your spending power has halved) This is what is currently occurring. You lose about 2% of your held value in $ each year through inflation. And only those who print it get anything benefit from using it. This is an invisible tax / theft without actually taking anything form your wallet. If you think its better to hold your wealth in something not so easily corrupted or something that is valuable for reasons other than 'it is because we say so' See: 'Having utility'. Then Bitcoin, metal, shells, tinned food, ammo, finger nail clippings etc are all possible alternates. The dangers of Bitcoin existing with an authoritarian-esque gov still around is that Bitcoin is free money, where there are still heavy regulations on things like drugs guns, etc. So it bypasses these regulations and bans much easier than being on the black market just with cash in hand. This is bad because it creates value in something that really isn't. Legal drugs = $1 while Illegal = $100. Thus facilitating a more liquid transfer of funds to those people or groups willing to break the law for that excessive markup value on initial cost. But this is scratching the surface of just one of the problems stemming from a corrupted and controlled monetary system. I'm kinda rambling so Ima stop now.

So.......Maybe you'd consider using them in the webstore soon Torsten? You can even setup a merchant account with coinjar to auto convert any btc you get sent directly to AUD at the current exchange. So selling a plant for $10 worth of btc you get $10. And whomever bought it 'cashed out' their coin for a commodity of their choosing. (even though I'd suggest holding the btc) It's pretty simple to add and I'd be more than willing to assist now that I've completed my degree. Even the sites trading section could do well with btc integration. Either with direct trades or If you where willing to be the 3rd party holder to ensure a greater level of security. As always of course 'tis your call.

Yea, I'm going to have to agree with at0m here. That article is riddled with claims that have absolutely no supporting evidence written by the author or existing empirically in the real world. I'll tackle the main points quickly. 1. Bitcoin isn't the guaranteed 'money 2.0' of our times. Crypto Currency certainty is though. Bitcoin is a top contender for being the leading one, being the first to unleash Pandora's box of this paradigm shifting technology. 2. Bitcoin is open source. Secured not by secretive black box coding, but by observable, heavily scrutinized and audited code. It's secure because it can be seen to be secure not because some authority says 'this ship is unsinkable' , 'this vault is unbreakable' etc. etc. 3. Due to is now established foundations, it has a self incentive to be protected, maintained, expanded. Bitcoin isn't just static money, it's meerly what more than 50% of the Bitcoin network agree 'is Bitcoin'. If a new currency comes along offering everything bitcoin has + 1 new awesome feature. Bitcoins protocol can be changed to replicate that...and if that's truley what most people wanted, that is now what Bitcoin becomes. That doesn't other things won't appear that do add on benefits but not enough that would warrant the risk of adding a possible security flaw into the code. 4.Voluntarily accepted. Nobody owns Bitcoin. This is exactly how money should be. If one person is willing to trade in Bitcoin and so is another, they're good trade partners. If one person is ONLY willing to trade in btc, they're committing economic suicide by limiting their market their avenues of trade. Not to say there isn't good and bad forms of money....but that's what each individual is to decide. Fruit is bad money because it rots but a good trade commodity because it's useful. Sand is long lasting, but too plentiful to be able to carry large enough amounts to be worth anything. Gold/Silver- Long lasting, scarce, has utility. But these are difficult to trade in ( 1 lollypop worth of gold plz). They're also difficult to transport securely without excessive fees, same goes with its storage requirements. Counterfeiting is also a big problem that can be hard to detect in day to day transactions. If I smelt some silver with tin or something and trade those coins. Bitcoin... Doesn't decay, is theoretically infinitely divisible, scarce, trivially easy and cheap to transport globally (and interplanetary), encrypt-able ( imagine putting a password on a bar of gold or your wallet)... The blockchain has huge utility too... When sending a transaction you can send a message along with it. That message is then in the blockchain for everyone *forever. example use: - Have idea (Laser shoes) -> type up -> encrypt (%Faf#N$DSK) -> send time-stamped transaction -> 8 years later decrypt %Faf#N$DSK to prove I had the idea laser shoes back then. Without telling anyone about the idea till now. Works with contracts, e-property and a load of other things + a whoel new realm of possible innovation on top of it So here we have a new form of technology that incorporates many characteristics of a 'perfect money'. Decide for yourself if that sounds like a good place to put your wealth.

Exactly. Seems like the exact same thing that happened with the silkroad shutdown, that caused a wave of panic sells...Based on the misunderstanding of it's actual role in the btc economy. China's news regarding how banks are to be treating bitcoin is perfectly reasonable. It's classifying it more as a commodity (like gold,silver etc.) rather than a currency that would be give strict regulations. I'm sure the waters will find find their own level in time. It's just get swished around a bit with all these trigger happy speculators in the game with seemingly no understanding of btc core concepts... unless of course it's preying on those that do not and simply some people trying to initiate a panicked market. Give it 2 weeks tops, and we'll be back at daily new highs. *I think - Not actual investment advice, just a personal view * *didn't proof read, not going to correct it this late... early mornings aren't my best writing time as you can see from above. Early being before mid day...

Retailers can offer cheaper prices in BTC from fee's saved over using paypal / master/Visa etc. As well as their own speculation that might incentivise to sell even cheaper to enable them to get more BTC easily as they see them gaining value in the future. Deflationary nature of it means instead of putting in the bank to get a % return, your the bank by holding it. The larger it's monetary base grows the harder it is to influence fluctuations. Like changing the temperature of a glass of water and a swimming pool. I mean shit, people are willing to pay more for this than an ounce of gold now!

Yea, te run up this month from ~200 -now mostly mostly with China leading the pack, now a significant amount of their investors are in, there's likley a lot of speculation going in other markets. Like Litecoin has reach $30 too! (I'm actually anti litecoin in the sense I see it really as a investment tool/ ponzi / speculation bubble...with Nothing really adding to the crypto currecny scene. So if you're interested in riding that bubble in some day trading, it's much riskier but also far easier to double your investment. AUD/BTC @ 1.1k ~ now. If it holds 980-1000+ for a week more I'd feel pretty safe in saying the 1k marks a new, safe fall back albeit merely a physiological one at that. Interesting times ahead no doubt.

This is who I use within Australia. They're Melbourne based. Very friendly and responsive customer support and from what I've seen the best rates around. 2% buy fee and 1.1% sell fee. Bank deposits in person or get ID approved to enable online banking transfers. Once that's all set up (Easily under a week) you can buy, sell and have those btc or $$$ in your wallet or bank account within minutes (or hours or days - depending on their holdings and current market demands) I'm not affiliated with them as much as I'd like to be... apart from being a customer of theirs for a while now. https://filler.coinjar.com/ Also there's some Bitcoin ATM's (for cash->BTC buying) that are going to be in place and accessible in the very near future. ( Was talking with the owner today) src: http://madinmelbourne.com.au/category/atms-in-melbourne Bitcoin black friday deals appearing now too. ...I'll link later when I got the time. But yea, with China even advertising BTC on state owned T.V ... China markets are a very good indicator of direction. China is preparing for the future, moving away from unstable 3rd party fiat and into metals (gold and silver mainly) and Bitcoin. Because it's very similar but also has the added advantage of super smooth E commerce.

So the difficulty increase with an increase in mining speed in the total network. This is one of Bitcoins ingenious features. It aims to have a block mined every 10 mins avg through adjusting the difficulty. This means all coins will be mined ~2145. As the block reward halves periodically...So by then a block found rewards a fraction of a fraction of a coin. However, inversely the predicated rate of transactions will have increased significantly by then (if btc lives for another 100 years) making the the greater end of the reward. This method of supply introduction is fantastic as it helps reduce the truth of the argument 'All early adopters just took every coin etc.' because there is still a little under half that haven't yet been mined of the 21 mil. Not to mention that adopting early was riskier and in turn offered a higher ration of risk and reward, as most investments go. Personally, I'm not captured by the mining side of things in BTC. The hardware will become obsolete relatively quickly, the captital investment is quite large and BTC is growing at a rate that would be better to just have that money invested into the actual bitcoins rather than a method of acquiring them in a trickle over time. Just My 2 mBTC

Just something to note... Mining rigs / ghash/power usage will grow with bitcoin too. People paying more than market price for a rig or mining at a loss due to electricity bills are aware of them. It's the fact that it's a gamble that the price (that once was a net loss eg mine $1 of BTC that costs $2 of electricity) will in the future be greater. Just another method of speculation of its future prospect. Solar mining btc I highly doubt will be profitable. The initial capital for the EcoRig will be more than regular and electricity is the non-factor of Bitcoin mining right now. Cheaper electricity isn't the next step of it's phase. It's dedicated computer parts and their increased speed along with reduced power consumption. I mean you can run a computer mining with a solar panel now...It's just not cost effective. Eco Friendly which is nice but not a $ generating investment. A lot of you probably are saying ' $500+ is too expensive...fuck it'. But Please just hear me out for a second. 1. Unlike stocks, you can buy a fragment of a bitcoin, so buying $20 worth is still viable. 2. This is the corner stone point. Bitcoin has a future in which it can go two ways. Either, Crash to $0 / code vulnerability... in which case you lose 100% of your investment. OR it continues to absorb areas of global finance where other currencies, payment processors, precious metal movers and stores are just not competitive enough to expect are user base to remain with them. In this case, Bitcoins value has no real roof that can be defined. But there are many projections of it's worth if it gained certain %s of the global market that suggest prices in the 10's and 100's of thousands per btc. Going to a casino and bet red you can lose 100% of the bet or gain at most double. I encourage you to put thought into putting away some $ into it, even if a minuscule amount. Because, these kinds of odds are rarely available in life. With Aus possibly soon adding an internet purchase import tax to help Aus business that can't compete with foreign business... The expectation that people will just accept being forced to pay higher prices for the sake of non competitive local prices offered is absurd. The fact we lose 2%+ each year of our spending power. Thanks to inflation. (I mean seriously it's just a covert theft from every AUD holder) ... Bitcoin is having more supporting its NEED for adoption and the abandonment of these corrupt and damaging monetary practices we've got in place today. Many people still have 0 knowledge of btc's existence, and it's reaching the masses more and more...nearing possible critical mass. Even now you're ahead of the pack just knowing about it's presence. anyway... gnight all

Yea, that's why aquaponics appeals more to me, as you can retain and monitor your water more easily seeing as it's not just disappearing into the ground

Flippin' hell. AU$341.36 \ btc ...

Yea I was thinking It would make it impossible to sell unless done privately because I'd never be able to give the documents corresponding to what's there... Ugh, can't even be the king of my own land

click bait... Unfortunately I can't assist ...but for the future I'd recommend posting with a less general title. Keeps the forums readable.

Yea, It looks pretty complicated...as well with a lot of upfront fee's for applying for approval that might get denied. I've been looking more into concrete alternatives... Using things like paper (see papercrete), alt plant fibers (coir, sawdust, ***anyone got any other thoughts on a high yield fibrous cellulose plant that can grow in Vic regions??? These all seem really cool (to me) ... bio matter + fraction of norm cement + lime binder = cheap, light, ecofriendly and importantly massivly versattile and useful breathable building materials..that can be cast into your own bricks, walls, xyz shapes... Although not quiteeee as strong as regular cement blocks so...Load bearing encased struts would be safest when needing that kinda building. I've absolutely fallen in love with the idea of shipping container homes too! I had no idea they could be renovated so elegantly! Check these out http://containercabins.com.au/products/container-homes/rural-home/ 284 sqm 5 bed/ 2 bath ~$185,000 ex-factory drooling at the thought of living off the grid self sufficiently in one of these castles while building towards a permaculture setup and adding extensions with the aforementioned biocrete building blocks. As well as maybe getting an renovated shipping container ~$3-4000 and try a DIY. I don't even know where to begin to see how viable that is in relation to building and planning permits... and what the time and money costs they involve... Out of curiosity....Does anyone have an idea of the penalties of building and what not rurally without council approval? Not my plan to. As I'd prefer not to toe the line on my early steps into the property game. Please to contribute though! I'd love to starts a more lively discussion here, collaborative efforts tend to yield the best results

Nice link thanks! With the AqPon, we're looking to start small and build progressivly in modules. Probs starting with 1 large tank and a few grow beds but also expanding that with some artifical ponds using holes + pond liner for when we're read to introduce some edible fish. Any idea what the go is with millions of small fish or a small amt of bign's... Honestly I'm clueless as to even an estimate cost of containers +plumbing + maint + time. Gimmie a week for my to be over and I'll flesh out these ideas far more lucidly, rather than off the top. thanks guys

Anybody know the current stance of hemp growing in victoria? I've found some licensing stuff for NSW ( http://www.dpi.nsw.gov.au/agriculture/broadacre/summer-crops/fibres/hemp/commercial-production) but nothing relating to my needs... Hempcrete sounds like a insainly good rural building material... fire retardant, C02 absorber as lime petrifies, breathing insulating walls that don't rot from moisture.... Hard to get an idea of the prices though.. Anyone done any research on getting a hemp growing license in Vic that could point me in the right direction?

So has anyone else been keeping up with the news around Bitcoin? They're still going strong, still valuable for all the same reasons and still yet to hit the mainstream consciousness. Unfortunately the wake up is taking a long time for people to come to terms with how parasitic the current monetary schemes are to the wider population...It's inevitable that the realization will occur...It's just how deep we're going to let ourselves go underwater before realizing we need air. ayway, just thought I'd drop by with another update for the crypto currency future. Trading @ ~ $233AUD / 1 BTC http://bitcoinity.org/markets/mtgox/AUD Not gloating or anything, just really wanting the potential of this tech to benefit the ...subcategory of people holding some more sustainable and ethical thoughts on the means of living... If you catch my flow. I feel this place holds people that if given more monetary influence would use it for a greater benefit than simply chasing after a lifestyle of pure hedonism. I'm going to be cashing out a portion of my profits soon to diversify my holdings into some property now that my degree is coming to a head this semester. Check out the thread I'm bout to create regarding the purchasing and pitfalls of buying rural properties... It's completely foreign to me, so hopefully I'll be able to learn from some peeps there...

I've got a tiny tiny scale aquaponics set up...just without the fish. I put birds collected droppings into the 'fish tank' to dissolve with a tiny water pump and a tiny solar garden light modified to power it. My tiny little cactus pot seems to enjoy it Is there a technical name for this? Avianponics?