trucha Posted July 2, 2005 Apologies for taking so long to get back to this. Adequate hours in a day is something I lack presently. The folks at EG said the plant grows at other spots on the island but only one localized population is active (which is apparently at least part of why they think it may be a hybrid) From what meager descriptions I can access it matches but I need to obtain a meaningful description for hystrix/fimbriatus to comment further. Two arrived but one was toast and dripping rot (I only paid for one so not a problem- my guess is it happened during the weeks the box sat in storage at the USDA/APHIS inspection station) http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/gallery...S_hystrix_T.jpg http://www.shaman-australis.com.au/gallery...S_hystrix_C.jpg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted July 2, 2005 Hi, indeed a very beautiful Plant! Thanks for posting the pics! I´m glad to hear some news from you again. Best Regards Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted July 3, 2005 The lack of cactus descriptions and ideal taxonomic information strikes again. No offense sir, but you are considered somewhat of an authority in this regard, and when you ask for/seek more information that can be a little disheartening to say the least. I like the picture, and some investigation seems to imply that it is possible for an individual population to have unique chemical traits (P paradoxa as you know) without being a hybrid. However assuming for a moment it is a hybrid, would that suggest that the other parent contains mescaline? Or that the genes for mescaline were/are dominant in some regard? Or could the occurrence of mescaline be due to a combination of two genetic sets for enzymes that only make the alkaloid with their combined pathway? Or might this be due to horizontal transmission. [ 02. July 2005, 19:21: Message edited by: Archaea ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted July 3, 2005 what we need is seed from this population then we can find out if its a true population or just a patch of a single hybrid clone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flip Posted July 10, 2005 Seems to me that it's likely to be a hybred thats escaped and cloned itself around being that the rest of the population doesn't show any known activity. It's a post spanish colony... seems reasonable that someone brought a active mainland cacti in that flowered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 25, 2005 Maybe its a hybrid but one would expect to see *some* features from the other parent in it. So far as I can determine it matches the description for hystrix quite well. Flowers will readily tell if its true or not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.dg Posted July 26, 2005 hello, recieved a 50g sample of this species recently. chemical assay= .4% alk. pretty weak, not the strong sample as suggested.... maybe it was the wrong sample? or a weak parent? the vendor claims its active at 10 grams, but not this sample.... thanks every-one for the great reading, it'll take me weeks to read all the info! peace dg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 26, 2005 0.4 is 400 mg per 100 grams dry. Pretty typical for lots of peruvianus and pachanois. What was the composition? Did it contain mescaline? Would you be willing to run the same test on the material that was received from Ethnogarden as a live cutting? It presently looks like the surviving cutting will probably not recover from the methyl bromiding in customs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.dg Posted July 26, 2005 smell and taste say yes...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 27, 2005 There is much about this that begs for questioning. A couple: 1) WHY would it be suspected as a hybrid? Was this based on something that was not stated? The plant looks like hystrix should. 2) Why was it eaten in the first place? Most people with any survival instinct will not eat an unknwon cactus without some good reason. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woof woof woof Posted July 27, 2005 you say surviaval Trout - Here on Curacao the country people make a cactus dish from Stenocerues Griseus! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 27, 2005 People do eat all sorts of plants. My bet is whoever was the first person to try Stenocereus griseus was either quite hungry or started with small amounts to be sure it was not a problem. Or both. How does the dish taste? Some cactus that get consumed leave me scratching my head. For instance has anyone ever sampled Pereskia grandiflora fruit? I've been told these are eaten and also cooked with yet all I have tried were very bitter and soapy tasting. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.dg Posted July 27, 2005 fyi extract of stenocereus hystrix active at 200mg Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted July 27, 2005 Wow, what is the growth rate of this plant in container cultivation? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted July 28, 2005 Not sure, but I'm having a hell of a time getting mine to root! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 28, 2005 Mine started rooting but has some sort of orange discoloration starting that does not bode well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 30, 2005 I'd suggest removing it from soil if not rooted. Wait until you see root buds visibly starting before you gently replant it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted July 30, 2005 I have this orange discolorations on a lot of cuttings, but i heard that this isn´t harmful for the plant and seems to be a kind of normal metabolism(?) product. But i might be wrong. [ 30. July 2005, 17:11: Message edited by: Evil Genius ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted July 31, 2005 I see orange stuff on the outside of cuts that look bad but does not hurt them. And then there is a systemic infection that seems to relate to peat based soils used for long periods of time, this turns plants to mush in my experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted July 31, 2005 Hi Archaea, i´m not sure if i encountered the systematic infection you mentioned before. In the beginning of my breedings i had some kind of orange fungal infection on some of my Lophophoras, which was very infectious. I had to destroy all infected plants including the soil. Could that have been the infection you meant? Best Regards EG [ 30. July 2005, 21:07: Message edited by: Evil Genius ] Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trucha Posted July 31, 2005 My guess is we are talking about different things. A reddish or orange can form on cut surfaces and sometimes on the outer surface of plants. This does not appear to really hurt anything but plants showing it on cut surfaces do seem to develop a bit more rotting problems later than those that do not exhibit it. This is a surface phenomenon. If it is more orange or brownish than reddish and looks translucent or is deeper like a bruise on a cut surface this usually means that trouble is starting. Some cactus always turn red when cut. That is a metabolic product oxidizing. The orange color I am seeing is the formerly green portion of the flesh under the skin. That is rarely a good thing. That orange on Lophos is probably treatable with savlon liquid or betadine. You probably would not want to eat those plants of course. If it shows back up on any more uproot the plants and let them dry out as soon as you notice it. IF caught early that alone will take care of it sometimes. Otherwise try the antiseptic mentioned above. Do you avoid the presence of peat in your soil mix? Is your soil mix slightly basic with gypsum, limestone or other calcium minerals? If the answer to either is no, altering your soil would make your lophos happier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted July 31, 2005 Hi, ok that sounds really bad to me then. Thanks for your tips! Due to the problems i had with this orange rot, i only use hydropics now like seramis including some few additons like calcium or gypsum. I do not mix any peat into the soil. Fortunately i had no problems since then with this kind of fungal rot. I avoid using any chemicals. That means that slight problems which easily could be chemicalized, can turn out to be pretty bad to me in the end, if i not react quick enough. Because of this, i threw them out allready. I only use hydrogen peroxide as i think that´s not problematical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pisgah Posted August 2, 2005 originally by trout, quote: I'd suggest removing it from soil if not rooted. Wait until you see root buds visibly starting before you gently replant it. Do I keep this in the dark? What is the mechanism here? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gusto Posted August 2, 2005 I've always rooted my cuttings in plenty of sun, just make sure that it stays vertical. Always tend to root at the lowest point IME ( though I've never tried one upside down). My hystrix from EG has just been potted. Took about 3 weeks to show root formation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
