Cacti doping

[Papa Somnia]

Hi again.

This time I have a tickling answer to state, and I am sure it will stimulate your mucous membrane.

1. Is it possible to increase the rate of growth of a cacti by slowly increasing the amount of oxygen in it's growing atmosphere ? During coal era ?? in prehistoric times, plants, animals and insects were bigger in size, not just because of the more hot climate, but that instead of the present concentration of 21 percent oxygen, air contained some 35 percent O2. At that time, Finland was a hot jungle...if it only were today...

2. Is it possible to increase the rate of growth of a cacti by using steroids ? Injecting sterodes into a cacti, or by mixing them with it's watering solution, and then watering. I presume that every plant, just as every other living organ, has steroids in it's structure naturally.

Why I ask these questions ? Off course you've found out it by this far. I don't want to wait for 30 years to get my loph to reach the desired size. If penis can be (re-)enlarged, why not a L.willy or T.pacan ?

Thanks alot.

Papa

Btw, time is in the essence, if you know what I mean. In here, every single ski -competiter has been caught of using illegal substances like EPO (Erythropoietine) and Hemo Hess (Homo Hessu = Goofie the Gay). At least injecting plants isn't illegal yet...

And, it is pure sports I am all forth. Nöy drugs.

[spiraleyes]

so its not the quantity of cacti your after,but the quality yeah!

i just read yesterday in spiritplants forum somewhere that instead of the old method of injecting cacti with the neccesary precursers,people are experimenting using DMSO to carry the chemicals across the cell walls,

so it distributes evenly throughout the plant,rather than having concentrated areas.

but can these precursers be easily obtained, dopamine,dopa etc cant remember the others.

interesting.

[ramon]

Plants use Carbon Dioxide and give off oxygen as a by product.

I have seen articles which suggest that you can increase the growth rate of certain plants by increasing the available CO 2 .

[planthelper]

but at nightime, they breath out co2, and i guess breath in o2...?

thats why in hospitals they take out plant material and flowers out of rooms...? :confused:

[Auxin]

"Is it possible to increase the rate of growth of a cacti by using steroids ?... I presume that every plant, just as every other living organ, has steroids in it's structure naturally."

Well, the majority of plant hormones are not steroids, there are exceptions of course (the brassinosteroids) but those are very cost prohibitive. The others (auxins, cytokinins, gibberellins) are cheaper but it takes real skill to administer them in the proper dosage and method for them to have the desired effect. Too much or the wrong combination can have strange effects (mess up with gibberellins and you get freaky stringy plants like the 14 foot tall, 6 inch wide cabbage. Such plants are often turned to infertile males).

If you want a loph that looks like a really skinny trich gibberellic acid (gibberellin A₃) might be the way to go.

If you dont want to hideously deform the plants perhaps patience is the way to go, 7 years isnt THAT LONG is it?

[spaced]

I doubt they'd ban cactus doping. Professional athletes on the other hand need to be protected from themselves. Many would take a performance enhancing drug even if it carried a high fatality rate just for a chance of winning olympic gold. And then its unfair on the other athletes. Cacti grown in the home garden are not in the competetive arena and if killing cacti with steroids is a crime (which it should be) then so would be failure to water your lawn (which should be encouraged - usually grows back anyway).

If oxygen assists plant growth then you would expect plants to grow less at high altitudes. But this would need to be balanced against more extreme climate and lower CO2. Athletes have been known to train at high altitudes to increase haemoglobin levels and hence the blood's oxygen carying capacity. A practice known as blood doping involves collecting blood prior to an event and then reinjecting it close to the event hence increased red blood cells and haemoglobin levels, promoting increased oxygen carrying capacity. The practice, banned by the IOC, along with ibogaine (curious side line), carries a range of cardiovascular side effects such as clotting. EPO is now used for much the same effect. Perhaps there would be a role for "sap doping" keeping in mind the possible vascular injury to the plant. Grow the plant at a high altitude, collect sap a few months prior to a horticultural exhibit, store under ice, and then reinject the plant at normal altitude just before the event for an abundance of healthy aesthetically appealling young foliage.

[Papa Somnia]

My first loph last fall looked like a trich. Maybe it was...

If one knows the physical information of the plant, as chemical such, (mass, density, cell type,etc) it would be possible to make usable doses, which would not harm the plant.

Well I always thought it was 10 years to reach flowering. Is it 7 years in every country, or is it dependant on the climate ? (sunnydays/year)

The period of growth is something like 4 - 5 months outside in this region (region V - VI)

I want to enjoy now, not when Im in my 30s. Sorry, if you are in 30s, but you know what I mean. Or then you don't. People are different.

Thanks to mother earth trichs are faster than lophs. I hope it would be same on the lophs too.

Well, I'll launch my project as I have gathered enough info. And when have enough spare time.

I don't care if my lophs become gay or lesb or hermafrodite or anything.

Btw, I would pay thousands of euros (if I only had), for a big pot full of lophs. One guy here herited a 30 year old lophs in a big pot. The best gift anyone could possibly get.

Unless a young virile girl...

[Papa Somnia]

You had the most open-minded reply. Thanx

I've noticed that some seem to have "conservative" ?

additudes around here.?

At least you are not one of them.

I think the next step is to get also these kind of plants grow more quickly. Why let the fun to agricultural use only ? Do you remember the address of the webpage ?

In a way it's more rewarding and romantic to have a plant or two for decades, but in some things it's good to get results soon. I think this counts when cultivating eatable stuff and other things. But, the "unnatural" increasement in rate of growth must not impaire the quality of the plant. That must be maintained.

 

spiraleyes:

so its not the quantity of cacti your after,but the quality yeah!

i just read yesterday in spiritplants forum somewhere that instead of the old method of injecting cacti with the neccesary precursers,people are experimenting using DMSO to carry the chemicals across the cell walls,

so it distributes evenly throughout the plant,rather than having concentrated areas.

but can these precursers be easily obtained, dopamine,dopa etc  cant remember the others.

interesting.

[Papa Somnia]

Plants use Carbon Dioxide and give off oxygen as a by product.

Thanx for telling me

I have seen articles which suggest that you can increase the growth rate of certain plants by increasing the available CO 2 . [/QB]

We all know that.

First, the air mixture of prehistoric times contained approximately 34 percent oxygen. I do not yet know the concentration of N2, CO2, or any of the noble gases. But, will find and found out.

Second, the average temperature was higher.

Third, I do not know if the pressure was higher.

If the pressure would had been lower, that would partly help to explain of big size in everything (sucks the tissues)

On the other hand, usually, when air pressure is at high levels, the weather is clear, sunny and warm / hot.

On the second hand (surplus has ntd with this, sorry) the whole world was different. Perhpas the pressure had a different role then.

Plants do use CO2, but they can't survive without O2 either.

Every greenhouse uses liquid CO2, which is preheated and then ventilated inside the area where the vegetables etc. are been cultivated. I've used sodiumbicarbonate and other stuff to catalyze CH3COOH (acetic acid) to yield CO2 for my poppies This was in -95.

My dear chapp, try some H2O2 with Mno2 or KMnO4 to make O2. But, if used in too large quantities, it will make more harm (turns to poison) than good. Btw, as the H2O2 has lysed, U can dry out the residue, and can reuse the MnO2 or KmnO4 with a new batch of H2O2. It's fun...but be carefull. Always cover your eyes. And the optimal concentration for the H2O2 solution is 15 %. Used by early rocket experimenters...

[spiraleyes]

just go to spiritplants.com

go to the articles section i think.

ive not been there for a long time and came across it another way looking for something else,not really sure were i was.good luck

have you tried grafting?

[Papa Somnia]

Thanx !

I'll visit there for sure.

Im by this far a bit unfamiliar with the concept 'grafting'. Does it mean making a transplant from a cactus to another, and that way sort of "building" the plant in each step ?

If that is the case, then not really. I've once tried to plant a Opuntia I took from Greece, Athens Airport =). It did not survive..

I've seen some pics here in SAB and in some other sites as well, where Loph-buttons were added (grafted?) on the top of some T.pach and peruvianus.

They grow wild in there..a pretty sight.

See ya later, Gator

What Mick Dundee would say about eating a loph: You can eat it, but it tastes like shit.

[Papa Somnia]

They wouldn't survive without O2 nor N2. Obviously folks forget it too easily.

I haven't really been in hospitals, so I don't know about that. Green colour would suppose to calm one down. That's why operators (surgeants) have green clothing during operations. ANd because to amplify the contrast between blood and clothing.

[Rev]

Originally posted by Papa Somnia:

[qb] Hi again.

Early earth appears to have been quite volcanically active - more Co2 in the atmosphere - also no Coral reefs to sequester atmospheric CO2

but also the weather patterns were different - no ice caps at the poles, warm shallow seas

etc

If you look at the Fossil record in Australia youll see that we were for a very long time quite well watered and subtropical

It was only in the last 20 million years when antarctica and Sth america split that the circumpolar current started - the currents that swirl around antarctica keeping it cold and making the airmasses that come to us from the south fairly dry

We dried out, antarctica froze over, kangaroos and penguins evolved - long story cut short

yes O2 seems to have been higher but look at the downside to this - combustion

the higher the O2 gets the more explosively flammable dry vegetation becomes- which will reduce O2 so theres a feedback system there as with other homeostatic Gaian mechanisms

you could speed up growth significantly if you feed and water regularly (1/4 strength soluble once a week in warm weather) - also if you put under lights theyll never go dormant

A lot of time is lost for my plants as they wait till november when soil temps and night time are again high enough for good growth

Since i started looking after my lophs properly ive seen the growth rates go way up - week by week you can see them growing

even better with grafts - i had one nearly double in size in a month n a bit.

[ 25. March 2003, 03:59: Message edited by: reville ]

[Papa Somnia]

Originally posted by reville:

[QB]

Originally posted by Papa Somnia:

[qb] Hi again.

That is true. I've had the idea that I would somehow find out exactly what was the climate back then. Perhaps go to some university or something. Would you have a clue of where to start ? I could make a query to some scinetific magazine, but it would take time to get the answer. However, what's the rush anyway ? Time is not in the essence, not yet.

So, I only know the concentration of O2 of that time, info on N2 and CO2 + noble gases would be important too.

Then, knowing the concentrations for each gas, a gas mix could me made, to stimulate the gaseous environment of that time. Added to the right temperature and pressure...voila !

I've had the impression that Australia is the oldest continent found in Tellus. Is that correct ?

you could speed up growth significantly if you feed and water regularly (1/4 strength soluble once a week in warm weather)

Do you mean a fertilizer solution for cacti (which I have in "stock") or some other ? Do you have info / experience on seaweed containing fertilizers ?

- also if you put under lights theyll never go dormant

So they think it's some other period of the year, but not winter.

By the way, I was amazed of the shred of knowledge, that lophs don't care light much. I've always thought they live under the hot sun of Mexico

Suppose trichs are even more water loving ? Please remind me of that technical term which explains the same thing (water loving)

Mine's are also growing with huge rates. Especially one of all 41. That's amazing. Obviously an induvidual

I hope, in future, they will grow in even higher rate. I have a "problam" though; I don't know how can I eventually dare to kill them Maybe pachs first, since they grow more fast.

Thanx ! Keep me posted, if you happen to find out something interesserant (interesting in Swedish) Allthough im not a swede, thanks to my parents for that....

Teris

[Papa Somnia]

I agree. Only pure sport is good sport.

I am quite athletic myself. I would never try such substances. If one doesn't cope with natural talents and strength, then not at all.

It hurts everytime a seedling of anykind dies. I however disagree of doping cacti. Of course they are biological beings, but... well, what can I say. Even if one treats nature as it should be treated, nature is for everyone, and human has always harnished nature for the yield of best possible results.

lawn ? what does that mean ?

I've witnessed several topics here at SAB about E.Coca and E.novo. There was argumentation about their native growing elevations. Some claimed that they would grow more optimally in high altitudes, and some disagreed. If I recall correctly, the growth was similar with the same results in both low altitudes and high such.

I know about mountain practice, but what does Ibogaine has to do with this ?

Can't remember it's effects, but have read about it from SOMA and seen it here.

and then reinject the plant

Sounds like addict activity to me

It could help, but myself I belive in alter methods.