Mesemb species.

[Guest Plantnursery]

Hello.

Since all mesembs contain the alkaloid mesembrine - does that make all mesembs `active'?

Surely if one fermented it like Kanna - worth a shot?

[Torsten]

Originally posted by Plantnursery:

Since all mesembs contain the alkaloid mesembrine

"Mesembs" usually refers to the family of Mesembryanthemaceae, in which case your statement is not true. Many people have commented on this as it is also what you use in your promotional mail outs and it is simply not true.

Obviously not all Mesembs have been tested (in fact only 0.04%), but even in this sample only about two thirds of species tested positive for alkaloids (non-specific tests). There is a tendency for more occurrance in the Mesembryanthemoideae tribe than in the Ruschioideae tribe, but again such distinction is almost meaningless given the sample of actual species tested. Fact remains that quite a lot of species have tested negative and thus your statement is misleading.

- does that make all mesembs `active'?

The mesembrenine group of alkaloids isn't the only type of alkaloids found in this family. Simple tryptamines and piperidine are just a couple I know off hand. But yes, it is probably a good starting point to assume about 60% of species to be active. Many of these are in the same genera and it is probably a good idea to first experiment with genera that have know active species (Aptenia, Sceletium, Rabiea, Mestoklema, etc)

Surely if one fermented it like Kanna - worth a shot?

Mesembrenine does not need fermentation to become active. Fermentation is only needed to remove the large amounts of toxic oxalic acid. A simple biphasic alkaloid extraction will ensure none of this acid ends up in the final product.

[theobromos]

The piperidine-containing one is rather toxic, oxalic acid is not the only toxin to worry about with mesembs.

[Torsten]

please tell us more theo. I am beginning my bioassays into this family soon and don't want to cause any more damage than absolutely necessary