lights, 1000w or florescent tubes?

[shonman]

I am setting up to grow microgreens along with my other interesting plants that I propagate.

There would be five layers of shelves 2 x 4 ft . (sorry) in size.

Above each are two florescent light fixtures, with two bulbs each=four bulbs above each shelf.

each bulb is 35 watts...so, that=70 watts of electricity per shelf. x five shelves=350 w per utility unit.

say I have ten utility shelves, for easy math.

4 bulbs/shelf x 5 shelves per utility unit=20 bulbs per unit.

times ten utility shelf units=200 bulbs

That's a total of 3500w of electricity.

These need replaced every two months to effectively grow plants, its true.

say each florescent bulb, costs $3.50. x 20 bulbs= $70.oo every two months. per utility shelf

times ten shelves, = $700 every two months in bulbs!

I am wondering a couple of things

1) Any suggestions?

2) would I be better off just putting the utility shelves on each side, without florescent light,

and running a 1000 HPS on a light mover between them?

Light would probably enter from the side, so shadows might not be too bad.

3) if the total growing area of all these ten utility shelves was combined,

it would be a bit less than 400 square ft, or about 20x20 ft.....or 10x40ft..

or since we are using a space 8 ft wide, in this case, that would be 8x50 ft.

The utility units would be on both sides, and take up 20 ft +- with room to walk in the middle.

Perhaps just using staggered shelves that are each a bit further back as they go up would be better.

That way, shadows definitely would not be a problem.

It would seem due to costs associated with replacing bulbs,

and the amount of electricity used

that a 1000w MH or HPS light would use less than 3x the electricity,

and cost alot less to replaced.

I am not familiar with LED lights for these purposes.

My math could also be wrong.

What do YOU think about all this, any ideas, comments, jokes or suggestions are welcome!

I am working in an insulated semi trailer I am converting for this use.

Thanks!

note- The bulbs are cheaper in bulk than the price I used above.

Edited December 21, 2014 by shonman

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Hi there, I've visited a micro greens business here in Australia a few mths back and have to say I was surprised by just how little light they used! A 400watt mh was used to finish the trays and illuminate an area of 2x2 meters. They then had a second table which had 200watts of fluoro lights starting the seed. Very simple flood drain setup in rock wool slabs. Goodluck with the venture!

[shonman]

Thank You, that is very helpful.

Do you remember the name of that microgreens biz?

Maybe I can find pictures online.

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

Hey shonman, no sorry they don't have a website. I'm apart of a market growers co-op and they are some other growers. Maybe I can take pictures when I have an excuse to bug then again for you

[theuserformallyknownasd00d]

This setup is on par with what they do, http://spinfarming.com/tips/tag/indoor-production/

The amount of light your talking is going to be wasted as far as I can tell. You can successfully grow 12"x12" of greens with a 24w flouro, I know because I've done it. Think very light vegetative blue light, you don't need big thick stems etc for most clients as they are only garnishes. If you do baby kale etc you will need more light tho. Micro greens are generally only 1-2 true leaves

[shonman]

Thanks!

I actually did become a member of Small Plot Intensive Farming a couple months ago.

Then I got caught up in some other things.

I appreciate your input!

One far out idea I am considering is....growing micro greens to the sound of Buddhist monks chanting.

Or, choose your religion, chanting,

[shonman]

I am a bit confused here...
It is my experience, that fluorescent lights from the store

only emit good spectrum light for plant growth for two months,
Then need replaced.
On this newsletter, they give a usefull life consisting of the entire life of the light, when it emits light at all.
So, what IS the best light source?
Would it be better to just use HPS or MH growlights?
They seem to have a longer usefull life.
Here is a link to what got me wondering.....
http://www.hometissueculture.org/uploads/3/2/3/1/3231599/newsletter09.pdf

(edit: need to learn how to actually type!)

Edited December 30, 2014 by shonman

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

i wonder if it would be cost effective if these

http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com/shop/aquatics/lighting-system/led-lights/arcadia-eco-aqua-led-30w-white

are available your side of the pond?

theyve been tested and perform as expected over here

[shonman]

Interesting!

I wonder how much light those emit, compared to what a plant actually receives from a 1000 w hps or MH...

I reads somewhere , that in some cases, a cooler 400w light, closer to the plants,

can actually give them as much as a 1000w light, farther away.

I also read that light meters just test light you can see, not spectrums plants actually use.

[shonman]

Here is something I am pondering...

if I have 10 (for easy math) chrome utility shelves, ($100. us each)

with two florescent 35w light fixtures per shelf...each fixture has two 35w bulbs...

that is about 140w above each 18" x 4 ft shelf

(sorry for using obsolete base 12 measurements said to originate from an ancient kings nose length)

These bulbs, I know from experience, are about useless for plant grow after two months.

No matter how hard you don't want it to be true, the plants growth and condition tells the story.

So, if I had ten utility racks, with five shelves each used....each rack would have ten light fixtures, 20 bulbs.

20 bulbs, times 10 racks.....200 bulbs replaced every 2+- months.

And, they cant just be thrown in the trash (well, I guess they COULD, but technically, not supposed to)

They are supposed to be disposed of at a 'hazardous waste facility'.

They do have a time maybe once a year locally where these items are accepted

and taken to a place where they can be disposed of.

So, if it was once a year, I would have accumulated 1200 bulbs to throw away into the landfill.

Recently I was fortunate enough to give a friend sixty bulbs to use in his shop lights, but he is pretty well stocked up now.

I AM not sure I feel right about dumping that much toxic waste each year

in my quest to grow wholesome microgreens and other plants of vale and interest.

Perhaps I can rig up a few HPS and or MH lights on light movers.

Or work with the LEDs, which seem expensive but if someone did the math, might work longer and even out the cost.

I just feel bad about putting that much crap into the landfill, when I scale up.

Don't think I could be in the biz of mfg. floro tubes, plastic bags, or styrofoam and sleep at night.

The floro lights work great though

I could not sleep at night if I was a manufacturer of florescent light tubes, or plastic bags, Styrofoam, etc,.

[shonman]

Thunderhorse..

I wonder how the cost works out using those LEDs for a scenario like I mentioned above?

So much math, so little time.....

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

dnno cuz if they dont have em stateside , theyll have either euro or brit plugs , and include shipping in ya budget

plus , theyre not exactly cheap in one go , even if they prove cheaper in the long run and answer the issue of bulb chemicals

i know theyre designed not to waste any light and have daylight (6500k) and personally still cant afford one yet,

if i could though

i'd probably replace both lights on my cactus tank with 2 of em

id replace the lights in the rainforest box with one

and replace the leds on the aquarium (3ftx2ftx1.5ft bowfront) with 2

and then use the leds i'd replaced for the cactus seed germination propogators/mini greenhouses

-which already have 2 of the led light bars from the rainforest box already

maybe this time next year I might have one , and they may be cheaper by then

ummm... maybe theres something more suited to a 4ft spread shelf ... but theyve not been tested long enough yet

and nobodys backing any in planted aquaria cept that one and these

however , marine aquarists growing corals are the rocket scientists of the LED as far as I can find....

their kit can be phenomenally expensive but theyre looking for more light than we need , and more control over it

these are the ones I have for the rainforestbox/cactus seed propogators

theyre about 12-20 quid each and there are larger and double tube models too, theyre not the best aquarium lights

but theyre perfect for the cactus seeds

and rainforest box, waterproof, stick anywhere a suction cup will...

much cheaper , only 3 watts consumption each I think or 1.5? ... one of them lol (bad memory)

and i use cable splitters to divide the power after working out I could ... so theyre maybe running at half bore

if i add 2 more, theyll be running at 25% consumption

Edited December 30, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[shonman]

Thanks!

Aquariums are great for growing and propagating plants.

I will look into it more

[shonman]

How long do you suppose the LEDs work for plants?

[shonman]

I am very good with plants and animals..

Have you ever tried propagating corals, shrimps, etc for aquariums?

Could it be a profitable venture..?

Or plants for pet stores might be another market......

[shonman]

Do you think these would wrk...prices are US dollars......

http://columbus.craigslist.org/grq/4798645521.html