Who "invented" up the validus complex and was it to sell more non-validus Tricho's?

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

Who "invented" up the validus complex and was it to sell more non-validus Tricho's that were too thorny for people to buy/want?

or something else just as stupid/degenerative?

like to keep every/somebody happy for some short point in the vast expanses of time...

If validus looks like anything, even close; to my not-bad eye,.... i mean "spidey senses" (in kit's voice from knightrider ;) )

it would be terscheckii and some echinopsis species and hybrids

not in a krillion and 17.3 years would i even dream up trying to say there were similarities between validus and tacaquirensis

or validus and taquimbalensis , even as a noob ... at least not much further than : "yes they're both a very pretty green" .. and..

"nice bulges!"

and only pondering a relationship with a very hydrated and fat werdermannianus , on a bad day... in a hall of mirrors in low light...

and I can only imagine someone creating a convenient little "complex" box in the first place for some sort of gain , knowing humans... probably money or an attempt at weilding the "power" of being the only one/few who really knew...

anybody have any ideas?

or any clarity?

anybody stubbornly think the (so far) laughable (on face value)... is actually true? ... why? -edit- not so laughable after all

or are we regurgitating olde shite that we should be fixing instead that should have already fixed a long long time ago

*dreams up a printed glossy SAB tricho ID guide that becomes famous forever with a real validus on the front page*

is a spade a spade in the world of cacti? or do they transform into more expensive robotic digging machinery when you look away too?

Edited June 28, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[Evil Genius]

Britton and Rose mentioned Echinopsis Valida as a synonym for Echinopsis Forbesii in 1895, based on a Picture they saw from a person named Meyer which was published in a journal. It was a dubious name to begin with. After that, various Authors used and recombined the name for a wide variety of Plants, of which most were basically Trichocereus Terscheckiis. I guess the last One who messed around with the name validus was backeberg, who tried to name it after himself after submitting a slightly changed description. The name is a just a big mess and should be left alone because it wasn´t a good One to begin with. The fact that the Original Description was made after one specimen on a picture should speak for itself.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Evil Genius

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

thank you EG

I cant even imagine 1895 or a trichocereus backbergii

-later edit after reading on a clear head- so authors are to blame ...

by picture i assume photograph .... any other incling makes me think monet must have painted it

x]

Edited June 27, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[mutant]

..... doesn't have much to do with making money IMO.

But I think that, similarly with mushroom taxonomy, if 'scientists' make up and describe as many plants as they can, more credit for them... In the old days, it might also not be possible to have easy access to another authors work, or there could even be some kind of competition in recording cacti.

I cannot accept misidentifications and hypes are the main sources of confusion or that sales profit is the the main reason.

People wanting to have 10 different strains of pachanoi, without being able to tell them appart without the labels is also part of the problem. So if people are still looking for different pchanoi and peruvianus phenotypes, there will always people who provide them, sometimes with new names or old names, but most preferably with names that indicate something shamanistic

So, people who come to profit off that , only came becuase there is potential for profit. I cannot imagine one will make more money selling trichocerei with invented names or selling as species while they are not, than a dude that will try to sell proper ID'ed cacti .

I also think that this thought about validus being close to taq/tac is very interesting .....

Edited June 27, 2014 by mutant

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

cool , yeahhh i hadnt even guessed about the access to works , (hugs the internet even tighter)

so pardon my noobage, when in history did shamanic oriented plant hypes start?

post 1960s? mind you ... could be various worldwide

also....

living where I do ..... its my immediate guess lol everytime that some bs has been made up to incur more money , just so used to it as a norm I guess... from the bottom to the top of society here... with few gems...

i keep forgetting to leave that suspicious mind's syndrome behind and attempt a better "world-eye view"

was pretty much a survival tactic with having been here most of my life , some of the older "gems" blame thatcher ?

and I must admit , the very first ethno shop i found here hyped the shit (and price) out of things

to the points of: severely faked, and unviable, and grossly and quite dangerously "mis" -dentified...

but after learning the tactics of knize ....

some guard i guess, must be maintained.... just finding the right level

its good to have a piece of ur mind on it , thanks - and lol about 10 strains of pachanoi x3

you would think they would take pride in being ABLE to ID em without having to look at the labels

maybe that step is like when a hand wizard turns into a thought wizard

Edited June 27, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[M S Smith]

Most likely the hype around the name T. validus has to do with a single published chemical analysis. Which "T. validus" was used for the analysis is up to debate, but it was probably either a T. terscheckii or T. tacaquirensis. Interestingly enough there is clear shamanic use of T. terscheckii in Argentina (sometimes referred to as the "San Juan" cactus due to a particular location), but I am more interested in T. tacaquirensis due to the flowers having much more in common with the San Pedro lot, T. pachanoi, T. peruvianus, and T. bridgesii.

~Michael~

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

yeahhh i still cant get over how majestic a huge full blown in-terbo-flower tricho is! (of any species but particularly the fat ones)

reminds me of a totem pole a lot

jaw dropping , totally feel ya on the flowers as a main interest ..

I'm still tiptoeing round the edge of peruvianus/pachanoi/bridgesii crater wondering where on earth to start,

so lol ,,,,,starting with the fat tricho's instead - tho as far as pasacana goes ... dang! theyre shape shifters!

i still find the shamanic side interesting too and adored learning that just as much as I'm enjoying learning the botanical/hort/aesthetics side , and whatever the tricho and whatever the use, even huasca,

and especially the antibiotic qualities I read about in cactacea

(i would like that to be "whatever the cactus" but started with trichos and only got to echinopsis and a few peyote types....but that started going into orchids..and further questioning like "whos to say there's only one peyote orchid" etc...... I was pondering gymnocalycium next since my closest cool cactus nursery has every species known)

thank you fella, .....so analasys could see the plant living up to it's name AND explain why the closest ally looks nothing like my mind's validus

terbo extra thanks!

Edited June 27, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[mutant]

TH, in countries like argentina or what the f. //there are better people than me to tell you about this// didnt have pachanois or peruvs , but there seems to be fairly wide knowledge of the use of the native tricho "giants" , be it traditional or modern.. might be terscheckis or tac/taqs , maybe the latter?

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

Thanks mutant .....as far as I can recall ....all i could find on em at first was "used for furniture" ....

I did manage to stumble across an Argentine cactus site once , with seeds too ... but cannot re-find it to save my life.... gave up trying .

good to know its a widely known thing , saves a lot of guess work , that i can spend hunting folk over there who can light the tunnel deeper

- although wow... you 3 are priceless! , so glad I joined , i hate to imagine how lacking i might've been without your help!

hope I can reciprocate in some way down the line

- as long as it doesnt involve relabelling pelecyphora to turbinicarpus ;)

Edited June 28, 2014 by ☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ

[M S Smith]

http://www.cactusargentina.com/page438.html

[☽Ţ ҉ĥϋηϠ₡яღ☯ॐ€ðяئॐ♡Pϟiℓℴϟℴ]

hugs michael thanks!

[Dreamwalker.]

awesome site M S

he's actually got cacti pics with their location on maps.

do you have one for Chile?

Edited June 28, 2014 by Dreamwalker

[M S Smith]

Here's the sister site to the Argentina one...

http://www.cactustours.org/index.html

Another random...

http://www.chileflora.com/Florachilena/FloraEnglish/PIC_CACTACEAE.php

Edited June 28, 2014 by M S Smith