A couple of interesting plants... any thoughts?

[Optimystic]

I have a thing for plants that make me turn my head sideways.... and thus I ended up with these two cuttings, or three rather...

The first one was sold to me as a Pachanoi... My thoughts are that its possibly a hybrid of PC Pach and Bridgesii, but thats just a wild guess...

I really love the "Smoothness" of the profile of this plant... I was told its a really thick plant when mature, like over 6 inches... It looks kinda like a long spined PC Pach but i've also seen some labeled bridgesii that have similarities... one thing in particular is the spacing of the aeroles... they are quite far apart like Bridgesiis, however i've seen similar on one I beliieve to be a Peruvianus, but similarly, it also doesn't have any grooves, eagles or V notches ... lol eagles I wish I knew exactly what it was cause if im right it kinda fits into MS's theory about the PC bridgesii relation...

The other two are quite unique!... Im puzzled as to whether or not they are even truly Trichocerii... They have a really neat bubbly shape kinda like chiloensis and some from that complex... I really like looking at these... what really stands out to me, and was listed when I bought these was the spines... they are black! any thoughts or leads on these? They are a bit weathered... one of them was split all the way down on one side and even had paint splatter on it (not much)... I got them in october and they haven't grown at all, but spring is quickly approaching.. and Im very anxious for spring...

Lastly, I also obtained this crested plant without a name as a gift

I'm wondering if there's anything that might speak to whether or not this is a crested tricho or is this just something I have to guess at too?? so far Im leaning to a cereus type but I don't expect much more than a guess on this one

Any thoughts or leads on any of these is greatly appreciated

Thanks for looking!

Edited January 10, 2013 by Spine Collector

[Stillman]

Nice thick Pachanoi and I would say I'd say crested Cereus.

[Optimystic]

Thanks for the reply Stillman!

Certainly it is some type of pachanoid! Have you ever seen a Pach with similar spines? I love the profile either way..

but I can live with calling it a "Pachanoi" Can't wait to see this plant get bigger and bloom hopefully, but then again I feel that way about all of them

It came from sunny California where the donor was growing in the ground, so it could very easily be the conditions that inspire the long spines like many of them do in the wild... I do have couple other authentic non pc Pachanois with longer spines (they etoliated a bit and looks like the common ssp/pach at the tips, but they will get plenty more sun in the coming season) but they are not even close looking, other than the spines being really similar (just realized that) they're fairly thick @ 4/4.5 thick in the non etoliated base... Those are more rounded at the tip while this one has that wavy shape common to PC pachanois and seen alot on bridgesii @ the source of my initial guess

What you think about the dark spined ones being a possible pach? In the N00k someone mentioned a Puqio throwing black spines... Im perfectly content w/whatever they might be, but if not trichocereus, I'd really like to find some leads on possibilities!

Anyhow, thanks again!

Edited January 11, 2013 by Spine Collector

[CβL]

I suspect the first has mostly pachanoi genes, with some macrogonus/peruvianus genes. The color is highly usual for pachanoi, but the two long centrals coming out downwards and upwards are macrogonus traits in my experience. The side-profile is also peruvianus-like, how each areole is on a bit of a ridge. HOWEVER, I'm assuming that some spines have fallen off, as some areoles seem to be missing spines - but if they just never grew out, but had constant growing conditions - then there's something more complex going on perhaps (as the spines I would then classify as being randomly oriented to at least a degree - which is a bridgesii trait).

The other two I'm quite sure are just pachanois as well. I have a couple of bigger plants, and some smaller ones, that have got black spines. Depending on where your plant was grown, the black spines might have not been oxidated, so are darker than when exposed to proper amounts of sun, or vice versa. Once you grow these out healthily, you'll see them change loads in appearance, and then you'll get a better idea yourself for what they are.

Either way, nice score, grow 'em nice and you'll be rewarded with some even more attractive-looking plants

Edited January 11, 2013 by CβL

[Optimystic]

That sure makes alot of sense CBL... someone else mentioned Peruvianus as a possible ally... I completely forgot about the spines which is maybe what confused me the most! There isn't much evidence that more then 2 or 3 fell off, but I spotted one that was broken, and I yanked it off, and the aeroles are "felty" enough that I couldn't tell a spine was there before, so its very likely more fell off... (I had to go look again).. I noticed towards the top that all the aeroles had only 3 or 4 spines, but lower ones have as many as 7 possibly 8... another thing, is the aereoles are raised and rounded in a very neat mound-like fashion and thats pretty consistent but the photo doesn't show that well... I wanted to compare to my pc's but I have them pushed up to a wall behind alot of other plants and plus is night time here atm... The aeroles sorta point at the 'peruvianus' possibility.. I have 3 different bridgesiis and none have aeroles like that, while a couple bridgesii seedlings sorta have larger feltier aeroles.. But then again, The feltier part could easily be a Pachanoi trait imo, although I don't think my PC's show any "Mounding" but are flat from what I can remember..... My larger bridgesii's however do show alot of randomness in spinage with the exception of 1 and 2 year old seedlings... Thanks so much for going in depth, that really makes alot of sense! now im more puzzled but in a good way ...

My plants are spoiled at minimum, but I work on not going "over care" on them.. If I hadn't collected so many by now that might be an issue! LOL The ironic thing is that plants have always helped me a bit with my patience, yet I am so anxious for these to grow!!! The 2 with the dark spines, I am especially anxious to see as they are of just a couple that I have yet to see new growth on, inspite of at least one of them showing a little root bud before I potted them up a couple months ago... Those two have really tough skin on them, much like another pachanoid I have which looks alot like a kimnach and pups at the base alot.... and a similar light green color that fades to a dull color with age... that one seems as a thicker plant, but time will tell... It has much different spinage traits also, in terms of angle but come to think of it, they are fairly dark brown spines on those... who knows what time & patience may reveal with these... the only thing else I can say about the spine color, is the lady I got them from had several other pachanois that look like fat pc's but which seem a bit off, maybe thicker, and wavier but no sign of oxidized spines on those and plus a blonde/light brown wooly flower bud... I was sent one of those as a gift and to me it looks like a mean looking PC and I can't wait to see if it grows into the same clone or if that too has some other genetics...

Thanks so much for taking the time to go in depth with your thoughts on these that is quite helpful!

Edited January 11, 2013 by Spine Collector