plum flower brand n. nucifera seeds

[puffinstuf87]

Has anybody used these? Can they be grown, or are they strictly for eating (lotus fruit)? also, i ran into this link - do all these lillies differ in potency?

[Rev]

A Few problems here

Firtsly terminology

Nelumbo nucifera and N lutea are generally referred to as 'Lotus'. N nucifera is the 'Sacred lotus" of Asia

Nymphaea sp are 'water lillies' and include the plants referred to as the 'Blue lotus' or 'Blue lilly" of Africa and Asia and the other species like N ampla from Central america.

Both are used but the terminolgy is confusing especially when people are just looking into it and dont know the clear differences. These plants are not closely related.

N nucifera is psychoactive but not the rhizomes

Virtually all the plant is usable in some way

The leaves (He Ye)can be used to wrap food and mixed with tobacco and smoked

The flowers petals are mildy psychoactive

The seeds are edible

The embryo of the seed i believe is the best part to eat smoke for effect - was it Theo doing this?

The Unopened flowers are used in the cut flower trade

the rhizomes are widely used in chinese cooking

(not all varieties make rhizomes BTW)

Most seed you get in the shops have had the embryo removed and cant be grown

SAB sells seeds - viability is excellent (they can remain viable for many decades apparently). Nick the seedcoat and erminate in a glass of water @ 20C

To try the root to see its not psychactie just go down town to a real chinese retaurant and order it in a dish

Then go one lunch to a tea house and have dim sum especially the lotus seed paste buns (sweet and very nice with chinese tea). May have a physiological effect (hard to tell when amped on too much china tea!) but barely a psychoactive effect

heres some details on makeup

HE YE Nelumbo nucifera leaf

Nuciferine, roemerine, O-nuciferine, anonaine, lirodenine, dihydronuciferine, pronuciferine, anneparine, N-methylcoclaurine and N-methylisococlaurine

The herb is used to disperse body heat during summers and is said to increase essential bidy energies, in particular those of the defensive sytems. Rice wraped in He Ye is a southern Chinese dish commonly served in the summertime

The alkaloids of this leaf have a relaxing effect on the smooth msucles.

LIAN ZI XIN

The dried plumule and radicle in the seed of Nelumbo nucifera

Liensinene, isoliensinene, neferine, lotusine, methylcorypalline, demethylcoclaurine

Herb used to reove heat. It has a tranquilising and antihypertensive effect

good luck

http://www.niam.com/corp-web/nelumbo.htm

http://www.organic-herb.com/45.html

http://www.herbalists.on.ca/resources/free...an/NELUMBO.html

http://www.nlfd.gov.tw/jfda/content/111/11.pdf

Interesting biochemical convergence here with Ocotea brenesii and the Lilly/lotus group

http://taylorandfrancis.metapress.com/app/...ults,1:103117,1

[ 27. July 2004, 12:15: Message edited by: reville ]

[puffinstuf87]

Although im sure SAB seeds are viabile, they are also quite expensive in comparison to many other companies, plus i do live in the united states and the shipping would be astronomical for just about anything. But even w/out the shipping, and with the currency conversion, the domestic prices ($2.50 for 10, best i can find for viable seeds) are much lower...and im poor, quite poor. Beyond the lilly/lotus issue (ive read from various sources that n. nucifera and n. noutchali are both lotuses and both are water lillies, but i do believe you on that) im familiar with all the rest of that information. But you failed to mention stamen! Torsten has mention a high nuciferne content in the stamens, but ive not found anything concrete on that (TLC analysis, and whatnot). But you neglected to comment on the various strains, and wether they differ in potency - i have found nothing on that. But im most interested in the info on "Plum Flower" brand lotus (n. nucifera) seeds, as they are sold as "whole seeds", and organic, not containing sulfides. The "Whole" part, and the fact that they are advertised as being "an alternative to cannabis" (which i know they are not,being more of an alternative to illegal opiates or sedatives). If anybody has purchased these for eating, could you tell me if the bitter embryo is intact? If any body has purchased these for growing, did it work? thanks

[Rev]

yes you are right

i didnt notice you were in the US

If you want to eat the seeds then SB would be expensive however to grow them its handy

I havent seen anywhere else in Oz that sells whole seeds

aquatic nurseries ive tried reject me

Unless you wnat a lagoon full its most economical to buy a few seeds

anyway regarding the sulphides etc.

????

The coat is tough as and you dont eat that

sulphides or no suphides wont make a difference

Just a ploy to make a big deal out of somethings that organic anyway

I havent come across any work on potency differences. In fact i think there is hot controversy on what the active ingeredient is!

After all from the analysis i listed above - there is neither apomorphine nor nuciferine in the seeds

The chem structure of Methyl-corypalline looks very intereting though

also found in Pachycereus,

[Rev]

I cant see prices but after looking ath them im interestsed in all those varieties

N nucifera is a permitted import to Australia

(N lutea isn't)

How do these guys compare?

http://www.omchiherbs.com/specialty.htm

03-0009-00 Nelumbo nucifera seeds 1 Kg. 40.00

03-0009-01 Nelumbo nucifera seeds 1/2 Kg. 25.00

seems a good price if you want a lagoon full or want to try eating

[ 27. July 2004, 16:55: Message edited by: reville ]

[puffinstuf87]

yes, ive been looking at them too. I believe those are "plum flower" brand seeds on account of the prices, being exactly the same. Ive asked all who sell this brand (and the people at omchi) wether of not they may be grown (that is what viable means?). Ive gotten no response, so untuil i get one, im taking that as a big fat NO. However, "Plum flower" sells stamens in bulk - if torsten is correct on his assesment of the potency (wether it be nuciferine or any of the sevral dozen constitutents of sacred lotus) it would be a prime source for exraction.

[puffinstuf87]

BTW, look up Dr. Duke - Nuciferine is in the seed and leaf of N. nucifera - and nornuciferine is also in the leaves. Other more likely possibilities for psychoactivity (other than those two) are 1-(P-HYDROXYBENZYL)-6,7-DIHYDROXY-1,2,3,4-TETRAHYDROISOQUINOLINE, 2-HYDROXY-1-METHOXYAPORPHINE, DEHYDRONUCIFERINE ,PRONUCIFERINE , and good ole tryptophan.

[friendly]

Hello: This is friendly from Om-chi herbs.

While we do sell plum flower brand chinese herbs, our N. nucifera seeds are whole and viable. We import them from India.

Nelumbo nucifera seeds have been known to keep their viability for hundreds of years.

[Rev]

I found that reference

I would like to see some quantitative data though as thats the only reference to it being in the seed ive seen.

Its a pity that the parts of Northern Australia that have Lotus in abundance are also infested with Crocodiles

[ 29. July 2004, 07:40: Message edited by: reville ]

[puffinstuf87]

HAHA- thats messed up - I just found out they grow wild in new york, who'da thunk it? - bout to start an expidition

[friendly]

Wild N. nucifera do not grow in New York. The climate is too cold. I know; I grew up in the immediate vicinity.

What does grow there are water lilies, psychoactivity (or toxicity) not determined.

Be very cautious whne trying an unknown plant; start with very smakk amounts and gradually work up until toxicity and/or psychoactivity can be determined.

[puffinstuf87]

Friendly, I was not aware you were the proprieter of omchi. I sent a question to the contact posted on the site, and figured that was the last i would see of that.

 

quote:

---

Wild N. nucifera do not grow in New York. The climate is too cold.

---

Thats what i thought (it pretty much goes without saying for almost all of the "Austrailian natives" up here in northeast US), but then i found this info from here , a government site. I shouldnt be terribly suprised that its false . Let me ask you one question though... The seeds posted at your site, for 25/LB and 40/Ki - are they the ones that are viable, or do you sell others? If so, whats the $?Im not sure if any of this is inappropriate for the site, but if so, PM me with the details. Thanks again.

[Rev]

There are different varieties of Lotus

The more temperate types make rhizomes while i think the Tropical ones (like from Nthn Australia) dont

please correct me if im wrong

Also i believe that in very cold areas the rhizomes can be lifted over winter

[mescalito]

That's what I'm lead to beleive Rev the 'cool climate' plants form tubers that go into a vegetative dormancy over winter but build more rhizome/s(correct me if I'm wrong)

It's interesting about the THIQ thing in common with pachy/steno's as that was my gnomes first impression very 'lotus-like'

... my gnome will do more research and take up your invitation re: EBA very soon

[Stonehenge]

If you can germ them in a glass of water, how do you grow them? I know they grow in ponds but what if you are a little short on ponds? How about a bucket with soil on the bottom and standing water? I'd like to grow a few if it's practical. Has anyone grown them in containers?

Stoney

[Rev]

Ive had it to a decent size in a bucket

and Electro has his 'Ghetto lotus tek'

[mescalito]

Stoney-there's a few good sites about..one in particular uses plastic dixie cups for rhizome propagation which could be applied to seeds as well.

http://www.faculty.sbc.edu/simpson/Lotus/index.htm

should be a good start.

http://www.victoria-adventure.org/lotus/in...troduction.html

and

http://www.victoria-adventure.org/waterlil.../dixie_cup.html

for the dixie cup tek.

From what I gather so far it's best to add water as they grow rather than make them stretch all the way to the top from the seed too