Future of humanity

[Thelema]

Not strictly a spiritual topic, but nonetheless:

I have found that the greatest gift of the psychaedelic experience is also the greatest burden of the psychaedelic experience,ie the way it is able to break down structures of the cultural psyche into nothingness, allowing the user to step outside the traditional forms of seeing the world, the traditional hangups, and traditional aims of the human race (in this instance, the "western" ideals)

Thus the seasoned psychaedelic user finds themselves par with the great philosophies: "what exactly ARE we to do with the human race?" now that the veil of assumed blindness has been pierced?

From an early age I was told to do my best, to strive, to consume, to achieve the laudation of others. Now I have pierced the inculturation and deleted my developmental upbringing, what shall I do? What is worth working for when working for something means others may become blindly sucked up into it as its value becomes dispersed and acculturated?

What is the psychaedelic prophecy for the future of the human race? In your opinion?

To return to hunter-gathering? Civic republicanism?

[alucinare]

 

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Now I have pierced the inculturation and deleted my developmental upbringing, what shall I do? What is worth working for when working for something means others may become blindly sucked up into it as its value becomes dispersed and acculturated? What is the psychaedelic prophecy for the future of the human race? In your opinion?

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That is an interesting set of questions that will possibly attract a multitude of answers, the following be my addition to that possibility.

 

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Now I have pierced the inculturation and deleted my developmental upbringing, what shall I do?

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First, I think we cannot really format the brain; that is not to say we cannot become aware of the origins of current self and change but that we cannot delete all the mind patterns sewed into us from the very begining otherwise we would not know what we changed from and might possibly develop the same way. So we go beyond our current self to create a new self separate and aware of the former self (and all its culturization), having knowledge/experience the former self had but not being controlled by that former knowledge.

 

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What is worth working for when working for something means others may become blindly sucked up into it as its value becomes dispersed and acculturated?

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Second, maybe the acculturisation of values is not such a bad thing; for an example, look at the 60s culture and the people of that era most of whom were assimilated by the mainstream culture, however, they had a profound life changing experience. Now it seems as though they just gave up on the ideal but maybe they did'nt maybe they knew the best way to go about changing society was from the inside of society, guriella/stealth tatics. It could be that the slow filtration of those ideals using the beforementioned tactic helped spring the current ecological awareness that alot of companies (ofcourse not all) and governments (unfortunately not all) are striving towards. But the awareness of it has increased as has its application.

So does the psychedelic culture, or any sub-culture for that matter, want to be a minority keeping its small tight knit groups with while at times critizing mainstream culture for their lack of insight or does it want to make a difference and integrate into culture so as to add a worthwhile new creative part to it. Ofcourse things will be losted but sometimes sacrifice is needed in order to create a new whole.

 

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What is the psychaedelic prophecy for the future of the human race?

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Well it could be that we continue to bask in our own pseudo-glory to be diagnosed with an insidious terminal cancer OR slap on some humility admitted we have fucked up and change OR perhaps it could be a bit of both or neither? but who really knows, the only thing that is possible for us to do is live and contribute to making a change like living a lifestyle that supports companies/organisations/government policies/people who are looking towards the future and wanting change. OR perhaps we could continue with the "busy as usual" mentality.

To poorly paraphase Lorenzo Hagerty, from a talk he gave at Mind States 2, a psychedelic thinker is not one who has changed their self to think differently from mainstream culture but also one who acts differently from mainstream culture thus creating the future they wish to be part of.

 

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To return to hunter-gathering? Civic republicanism?

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I think it would not be ideal for us to return to the yesteryear of human evolution but create a new collective self that integrates all aspects of humanity to create a novel expression of conscioussness not something rehashed and repacked so as to look original.

Well that is part of an evolving opinion from a possible hopeless idealist. What about you Thelema? your thoughts on your own questions?

[Thelema]

truth be, i really don't know.

My current thinking is that the concept of democracy needs to be severely reworked so as not to allow market force to be the overriding concern of governance.

But how?

[Flip]

 

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Not strictly a spiritual topic, but nonetheless:

 

I have found that the greatest gift of the psychaedelic experience is also the greatest burden of the psychaedelic experience,ie the way it is able to break down structures of the cultural psyche into nothingness, allowing the user to step outside the traditional forms of seeing the world, the traditional hangups, and traditional aims of the human race (in this instance, the "western" ideals)

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This inded rings of W. Blake.

As well as Taoism. (Tao Te Ching)

You seem to be still caught up on dualism and neglecting the other side of things.

that is western thought and conditioning for you...

I have always strongly encouraged those wishing to delve into such Entheogenic experiences to first take a strong look at the Tao Te Ching

and read it's "poetry" first as a preperation for the tide of the "Experience" that one falls into..

 

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what exactly ARE we to do with the human race?

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This represents the clif that adam and eve represented as the burden of choice. Knowledge.

your question goes further in that you're assuming social responsibility.

in essance, you can only be responsible for yourself.

however, you can influence the masses and guide them.

as an example,

If we had never had Tim Leary's "tune in and drop out" mantra

we might not have such a distilation of narrow minded neo conseratives dominating the globe right now -30 years later.

Think about that... he was olny one person that stood up and had others follow him (as many are "conditioned" to do).

naturally it came to naught.

The only way anyone can influence a system is from within the system as well as outside (ie provide a valid option).

Tim was a very popular icon/ person among the progressives.

and as such, conversely influenced by the mindless masses to retain that same popularity.

ie. he became a slave to his own power and status.

 

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what shall I do?

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no one can answer that, but yourself.

It's a very basic question and one that all with opened eyes share.

The sad part is that most actually choose to keep their eyes shut.

or attempt to hide from reality via drugs, religion or other distraction.

 

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What is worth working for when working for something means others may become blindly sucked up into it as its value becomes dispersed and acculturated?

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Remember that you are in control.

Now that you are aware of a problem, that's it's the first step in solving any problem.

There is a dual solution of culture jaming and profiting off the system as the same time.

Think of it as a equasion.

the more they put into one side the more there is to tap on the other side. the natural way is things is to achieve balance.

tap the unused energy of the unblanced equasion and you may be supprised at what may happen.

The tail may not be able to wag the dog

but it can certainly get everyones attention... including the dogs.

I hope that this helps.

[ 05. June 2005, 20:20: Message edited by: Flip ]

[Thelema]

Flip,

 

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This inded rings of W. Blake.

 

As well as Taoism. (Tao Te Ching)

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but also you say that I'm still trapped in dualism.

You are right. The thing is, I can stay in that state and NOT be dualist, or I can come out of it and use the state to help me decide how to act consciously. There is no question about the future of humanity within the tao state. So it follows that the most important question to be asked of humanity is on the precipice of the tao.

[nabraxas]

even yogis who practiced renunciation ov the secular world & it's illusions took part in protests to drive the English from India.

so it seems that even philosophies which promote the taoist 'lassaiez faire' social attitude will sometimes get 'hands on' when the political flow is right.

i think your precipice analogy may not be far wrong. these are times when just a little "action" can cause a massive "reaction", the key IMHO is to be withdrawn from the cares ov the secular world--like the renunciate; but like the shaman aware ov the mass halluncination occuring in everyone elses head; poised to manipulate the medium, when such an act would bring thee most confusion/enlightenment ov the psyche.

or maybe lennon said it best in his song "Mind Games"

--"LOVE is the answer, & you know that for sure.

"LOVE IS the answer--you gotta let it flow"

[alucinare]

"There is no way that is not the Tao". That quote is taken from a book by Ken Wilber who extracted it from an Eastern philosopher's book, it might not be exact though it is pretty close.

Now I take this as meaning there is no "wrong" (not in the good/bad sense) way for Reality to "go" (not in the forward/backward duration of time sense) because everything IS the Tao. Ofcourse once a person deeply realises that then that person is no longer "trapped" in the dualistic state thus they are capable of thinking beyond culture and beyond behaviour, nothing "wrong" with them, however, they do have their limitations as is obvious in the modern world. Though if one so wishes to communicate the usefulness of this state they have to revert back to the dualistic state of mind so as to inspired other person's to "attain" this state.

So does one decide to operate from the world of contraries? or does one attain this new state? once one has attained this state what is one to do? maybe this new state will highlight "the way" one needs to go? look at all the inspiring people through-out history they change and evolved past the relative normal and people came to them, followed them; Jesus and Buddha are probably the best example's.

On a side note, if anyone is looking for an interesting read have a look at any of Ken Wilber's work. He is seeks to intergrate East and West and then some, the first book of his i read was 'Sex, Ecology, Spirituality'(it is one of the newer ones) which was easy reading and interestingly stimulating.

[Thelema]

 

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"There is no way that is not the Tao".

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even though i know what this guy is trying to say, I'd have to point out that this is a pretty misleading thing to say.

For instance, thinking that the Tao is a thing is not with the Tao.

[ramon]

On a side note, if anyone is looking for an interesting read have a look at any of Ken Wilber's work. He is seeks to intergrate East and West and then some,

I think his book called "no boundaries" (or something very similar) to be the most profound book I have read and understood.

I am sure there is many more profound books out there but this one seemed perfectly framed for my level of understanding at the time

[Rev]

Thelema:

 

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"There is no way that is not the Tao".

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even though i know what this guy is trying to say, I'd have to point out that this is a pretty misleading thing to say.

For instance, thinking that the Tao is a thing is not with the Tao.

hence the new element

submission

There is no way that is not the Tao is the same thing as saying that There is No God but Allah

To what degree texts written down by human hands have been corrupted is the eternal question

but i think that all religions whther they preach dettachmnet, or the love of christ or the agape, or the entrance into trance states are all focussing on submision to god as the ultimate answer

all emerge with the answer to life that has haunted all conscious entities

you must submit to the will of the universe

or you will not know peace or love

if you fight it you estrange yourself from it and this creates the unbearable samsara

It strikes me that only by submission to being part of something that is real and true, in a sense that all about us is exactly as it should be.

simply because the univerese follows its own rules

the universe cannot break its own rules

if it appears to do so sthen we know its is a human error of judgemnet or an insufficiency as yet of our total knowledge of it

therefore all that is

is perfect and cannot be altered

the only choice is to resist and seek some kind of individualist ego salvation

or to submit completely that you are that you are because you are meant to be

there is no original sin

we are not born in guilt or shame

thus there is no need for redemption or salvation

we are all born perfect incarnations of what the universe or tao or god/allah intends

so its by this and by accepting that we realise we have to follow the rules that bind us amicably and happily together in social life

but that we as conscious entities have that special ability and gift to explore and gain enjoymnet from understanding the intricacies of our own inner and outer space

so again the future of humanity is submission to the universe' awesome power and our small part to play in it. We need to give up our petty games of one upmanship or superiority quests and see ourselves united as uniquely human and perfect before the cosmos

i dont know if you see where im going but by giving up the struggle against the world we free ourselves from a lot of burden and so free our minds to move beyond all that

submission is the death of the irrational ego. it is not the death of the rational intellect as the rational intellect is a direct manifestation of the true way

[ 12. June 2005, 19:55: Message edited by: Rev ]

[Thelema]

 

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There is no way that is not the Tao is the same thing as saying that There is No God but Allah

 

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yes, in a way. given my misgivings about the tao quote opens up the possibility that when understood correctly, the tao is in a very important way, very different. Allah/God is presumed to be a "thing" to which a conscious rational intellect can refer. The nature of the tao eludes this type of reference.

Hence i would also disagree with your contention that the operation of the rational intellect is a manifestation of the tao, under certain conditions. I can well see that usual operation of intellect might be in line with what you declare, but in cases like intellectualizing on the ontological or epistemological plane or intellectual activity that seeks control of the world for the benefit of a self-conscious agent self-consciously acting as such, I would have to maintain that this is strictly NOT tao.

You are right that submission is the new key element. In these forms of intellectualization, the self-conscious thinker remains apart or in a state of manufactured duality and hence cannot possibly be in a state of submission.

[nabraxas]

i maybe wrong, but i believe the word "islam" means "submission" (to the will ov Allah).

[woof woof woof]

Thelema:

What is the psychaedelic prophecy for the future of the human race? In your opinion?

To return to hunter-gathering? Civic republicanism?

the prophecy reads as follows " Shut up! Obey all orders and be happy!" He h eheh

I think or mission is to SURVIVE - nothing else.

If we realize that in order to survive we need everything, then it is clear that we need NOT to fuck up nature deliberately. Actually you know what the strange part is - and this is also somthing that reflects how mysterious life is, and that is that we need all the fucking up that we are doing to the enviroment in order to learn what it takes to survive in outer space. I am also sure that humanity will figure out how to fix things that we fucked up in the past. ( he's got the whole world in his hands, some say)

the karmic backlash we create by fucking it up is the burdon we have to carry eventually.

ha ha ha - maybe that is the reason we fuck with our brain chemistry.

computer age hunter gatherers. hunt for online quarry - gather chips ,...... back to basics.

[Thelema]

[ 14. June 2005, 11:38: Message edited by: Thelema ]

[nabraxas]

^ that's not the "highly intellectual stuff i have to read 5 times before i can understand it" which i've come to expect from Thelema.

DAMN!!! i still don't get it.

[woof woof woof]

Ha ha ha - good on thel - or what if highly evolved alien civilization radio transmissions are influencing our behaviour by having us make repetitive beat hypnotic music,.... if we like the music we follow it - and make more of it,... that will then influence the way we think and the way we thus have technoligy work for us.