when peres starts to fail

[planthelper]

hi!

i just lost my whole post, maybe i can writte it better now....

problem, peres grafts start failing after a few years.

once you cut the loph, you will encounter a lot of "woody core material" which supplied the loph, but now has to be all cut out, before regrafting can be attemted.

this, foreign woody core, takes over a lot of space inside the loph, and i wonder if, echinopsis would have been the stock, in question, if the foreign woody core issue would be as prominent as with the peres.

peres, has fallen out of favor for me, because they start to fail after a few years.

echinopsis, will hold up much longer, but i wonder, how the echinopsis compares to the peres, in regard to that woody core issue. in other words, we have to cut out, all foreign tissue, before we can think of regrafting, but is this maybe less problematic, if the original stock was echinopsis, or selenicereus or so??

having to cut up to, 2/3 of the loph off, to rescue it seems a heavy prize to pay.

if anybody has info, about how the cores fuse with echinopsis compared to peres, i would love to hear about it.

i started yesterday to graft loph and kabuto seedlings straight onto small echinopsis, peres no me gusta...

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=27707&st=0&p=300978&fromsearch=1entry300978

[Hellonasty]

PH,

From my experience re-grafting from peres, which in my case is usually to a Tricho, I find it is NOT necessary to remove what you described as "woody core". I have recently been cutting the pereskiopsis flush at the base of the Lopho and then slicing between .5 - 1 cm off that, exposed will be that "woody core" you described which I believe is actually vascular tissue formed as a result of the graft. Thinking about it I guess it would make sense that the plant had a greater amount than usual of vascular tissue, this may well enable the plant to grow faster because nutrients and water can be transported more efficiently. This will also make the re-graft much easier because you have such a large area of vascular tissue to "line up", I find regrafts from pere to tricho are nearly 100% success.

I have only degrafted a few plants from trichos, because they last so long (larger, thicker trichos will last even longer), I have noted a very similar appearance of vascular tissue.

Hope this helps

HN

[planthelper]

yep, that helps a lot, and we could assume that echinopsis produces similar, vascular / woody core issues than other stock.

the direction i come from, though goes as followes.

if the peres had failed already since a while, all the tissue which was peres will rot.

that woody core, which branches out so well into the loph, will all turn into orange rot.

thats the reason why it has to be all removed, in this case...

but even, if the woody core looks healthy, and as you say, produces even a bigger platform for vascular connections, doesn't that mean we run the risk that this, now "3rd party tissue", will cause problems if it get's rejected? in all we have now, an echinopsis stock, grafted onto peres vascular bundels, which are embedded into the loph.

[Hellonasty]

Yes I agree that could present a problem. so long as you keep the stock alive you shouldn't have to worry about that issue. If the Pereskiopsis stock "rotted" I would make sure to cut nearly all the effected tissue out.

HN

[naja naja]

Graft it upside down and leave the pere in there, u might be able to see it on sum of these upside down grafts, after removing all the pups, cutting the main button as big as possible, I thought bigger it and grfat the bums upside down. Plenty of areoles there for more pups.

Edited October 10, 2011 by naja naja

[planthelper]

the grafting upside down idea, is great, maybe one could even cut those buttons, into (pizza/cake) sliced and than upside down graft them.

in other words: we have to deal with a loph which bottom part vascular bundles are mostly rotten, so we use the upside down graft methode instead. the top part of the loph will display healthy vascular bundles, and can be regrafted. the bottom part, has only healthy vascular bundles on the top, but maybe this cylindrical shape, ought to be shaped, into "pizza slices" to be regrafted upside down. other wise the scion will be almost always far, far bigger than your stock. or would you sacrifise a very big echinopsis, for grafting stock if the scion looks poorly??

i'm working on a new idea, when regrafting a young peres to loph (~2cm diametre, and bigger) graft, i just cut high, and regraft the very top of the loph onto echinopsis, whilst i leave the bottom halve on the peres in hope, that pups will emerge,

i did this even, with the only varigated loph i have, and whilst, grafting is fun, and quite easy, the pressure get's you, when you cut a unique specimen, hehehe.

[Hellonasty]

I know what you mean regarding the pressure, I hate to cut special plants because there is always a small chance you could loose them both !

You mentioned above about cutting high and regarding, this works great for Peres/Loph grafts that begin to slow down. Cut half off and this reduces the load on the stock, now the Loph will pup and put on new growth.

[planthelper]

two day's ago fuelled by beer, i made the observation that, most of my lophs grafted onto short sections of echinopsis did alright, whilst the one grafted onto long pedros did not grow.

anyway, so i did cut all of them off (sicion and just a short lengh of pedro, this time) and placed them so they can calluse.

once callused, i will try to re root the pedros.

whilst grafting onto longer sections of peres works better than, using shorter ones, this is not the case for me with pedro.

i guess, that the small loph sends a signal to the pedro to re pup or re shoot, rather than to make that "weak apical work". if the pedro stock is kept short, than the pedro will not complain as much about this "weak loph apical", because it knows it is still young, and weak apicals are normal with young plants.

at least that's my theory, hehehe.