Stonehenge Posted October 31, 2004 gomaos, how many grams was that 100 leaf dose? Leaves can be large or small. 100 could be a couple oz or as little as 5 - 10gm. 10gm of good leaf should be a quite heavy dose. 50gm might be fatal if it's good stuff. Stoney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted November 1, 2004 Kratom is like some red wines i that its value and quality improves with age 14 month old leaf was excellent the same leaf fresh as so-so in a way that lead to it not being bothered to consume for 14 months! then it was tried agin from curiosity and wow. Now its clear what all the fuss is about Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
macro Posted November 2, 2004 reville:Its somthing i would take everyday if it were legal and i had an outdoor and physical job Would you _really_ want to take it every day? Surely that could lead into a pattern of dependence which could be ultimately undesirable? But it makes work easier..It's an interesting question and one I ask after witnessing coca use in Bolivia. The use of coca leaves in Bolivia has a long long history which doesn't need to be explained here. When I was travelling through the poorer mining towns, some people there are practically incapable of working without coca, the women would chew the leaves all day, adding a leaf to the quid in ther mouth is as natural an action as taking a breath of air, and is done just about as frequenty. The men would refuse to enter the mines without coca leaves. Within the cultural context, there is perhaps nothing wrong with this per se. The situation for these people is vastly different to our own, and coca is part of their way of life and helps them get through their day. However, there is a psychological and probably physical dependence on the coca alcaloids. On one hand I easily came to terms with the dependent coca use and am completely sympathetic to the people - why not use what you can to make your day more enjoyable, painless and so on? That's what we all want, right? I'd want to be doing the same...One the other hand I saw people probably disfunctional without the leaves. Where is the balance drawn? Now I'm not actually trying to debate the worth of coca, it is a special plant and has many, many benefits across a very wide spectrum. The same applies to Kratom. I guess the question is more dependent use vs. benefits. I think. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stonehenge Posted November 2, 2004 That's like people who can't get through the day, or think they can't, without coffee or cigs. It's better not to be dependent on any substance. Then you have the situation where a vile substance like tobacco is legal along with caffiene and alcohol but other things arguably less harmful can get you locked up for decades. Insanity, but that's another subject. Cocaine used in the leaf is no different from my point of view than using coffee. With kratom we have the odd situation where in most of the world it's legal but has effects much like the illegals. Kratom seems to be an interesting substance. Is the extract and dry leaf illegal in oz or is it just the plant itself? Too bad seeds are about unheard of cause that might be the only way for you guys to get any in. That plus the rare person who "forgot" to toss out his kratom after it went (goes?) illegal. Stoney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted November 2, 2004 In the context i stated that is if i was in an outdoor and physical job then the answer would again be yes. If i had fields to plow, fruit to pick, or any repetitive task provided i had my own uninterrupted source at hand. and if in the tropics you had 5 medium sized trees it would easily make a year round supply I am resigned to the fact thatgiven the strenuous nauture of physical work, the combination of injury and wear and tear then pain is inevitable, as is boredom so in light of this i seee mild physical or psychological depenbdency as a natural part of life The human body and mind isnt built for hard labour, just look at our backs and knees for proof, its a multitasking thing made to do many jobs periodically so i see this dependency as a natural counterbalance given the unanturalness of the lifestyle my lifetyle already involves a mild dependency on Caffeine/theophllyine to get me through the day i need to do. By mid afternoon if i dont get my cup of tea shot in the arm i feel washed out. partly due to the caffeine/theo, partly the liquid, partly the sugar and electrolytes Others use a guarana based caffeine, or mate. I would rather take kratom than weed which fogs the mind, or alcohol which deadens it. given all the toxic alternatives ill put my money on kratom as being the perfect workers drug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted November 2, 2004 i remeber to have posted before my idea that, old kratom leaves get stronger because natural oxidation takes place! aswell my instict's told me that kava man's first patch was very old material. finaly let's remeber the mitragyna pseudo indoxyl (spell?) story posted not too long ago here, explaining that oxidation done in lab's can turn mere kratom powder in an analgesic 30 times or whatever nummber stronger than mohrphine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gomaos Posted November 3, 2004 how many grams was that 100 leaf dose don't know... if it wasn't illegal I'd say i'll weigh it next time... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hagakure Posted November 4, 2004 is it really illegal at this very moment? i bought some legally last week Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gerbil Posted November 4, 2004 The plant isn't illegal till 1st of jan i think? I've seen it for sale aswell, it's definately not a legal purchase. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
