Stretching The Law

[Legba]

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2008/s2293886.htm

Stretching the Law

Reporter: Debbie Whitmont

Broadcast: 07/07/2008

For 20 years the NSW Crime Commission went about its business quietly and effectively. When it scored a bust – and there were plenty – it stood back and let politicians and police bask in credit. It mostly avoided controversy and guarded its low profile.

All that changed last month with the sensational arrest of the commission's assistant director of investigations, Mark Standen. Mr Standen's actions will be judged in court but his spectacular downfall has thrown a spotlight onto his employer's remarkable array of powers, how it uses them and how it accounts for itself.

Secret hearings, witnesses compelled to answer questions without any guarantee of legal representation, broad powers of search and surveillance, no independent review process … these are some of the issues now deeply worrying many lawyers.

Questions arose about the commission's operations in April when Four Corners delved into the conviction of alderman Phuong Ngo for the murder of Labor MP John Newman. A judicial review of the case was announced after the program.

Now Four Corners drills deeper into the Newman case, focusing on the commission's handling of witnesses. The program explores other controversial cases including one where seized drugs were sold back onto the street – never to be recovered – as part of a wider bust.

"I've never heard of a case… where the police have been given permission to sell drugs into the community," remarks a former commission lawyer. "To buy drugs then sell them and then bank the money on behalf of the NSW Treasury is a very, very unusual tactic," notes a senior counsel.

The NSW Crime Commission is among a new breed of crime-fighting agencies that were set up and armed to tackle organised criminal syndicates. It has scored some major successes. But as Debbie Whitmont reports, the commission's ruthless efficiency and near-obsessive secrecy is leading some people to ask if it is "Stretching the Law" - on Four Corners, 8.30 pm Monday July 7 on ABC1.

This program will be repeated about 11.35 pm Tuesday July 8; also on ABC2 at 8 am Tuesday.

Link to Webcast Here

[Torsten]

Very enlightening!! Most people still believe they have a right to silence, and that this right is absolute. If nothing else comes out of this Standon affair, at the very least it will educate people about this new age of law enforcement. Mind you, these laws are 25 years old, but still hardly anyone knows about them.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Just wondering, In relation to http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...c=18257&hl= thread by Andy, Do "regular" (non drug syndicate allined )Australians have the right to remain silent?

[Torsten]

You always have the right to remain silent unless you are brought before one of the various crime commissions, ICAC, royal commission, and a couple of other agencies. You also do not need to talk to these agencies unless you have been summoned to a hearing - ie if a crime commission/ICAC/etc officer rocks up at your door you do not have to talk to him, however if he takes you away to a hearing [either by summons or by arrest] then you don't have a choice. Well, you do have a choice, but you will likely get jailtime if you refuse to answer.

You do not need to be 'drug syndicate aligned' to end up in that position. You may just be incidental to an investigation [eg corruption at your workplace..]

[AndyAmine.]

We dont have anything similar to the 5th amendment when in court though do we?

For example, can we say 'No Comment' when asked questions in court, I am assuming we cant?

[JDanger]

We dont have anything similar to the 5th amendment when in court though do we?

For example, can we say 'No Comment' when asked questions in court, I am assuming we cant?

I wanted to ask the same thing. I would assume we at least have an implied right to not incriminate ourselves, but since we don't have an explicit Bill Of Rights, where would we find such a measure?

[Torsten]

Don't quote me on this, but I was under the impression we had a right not to incriminate ourselves and to refuse answers on that basis in normal courts. Such right does not exist in the above mentioned commissions, however the direct evidence given cannot be used against you in criminal proceedings.

[Legba]

Police say Perth lawyer Lloyd Rayney invoked his legal right and refused to answer questions about his wife's murder during a lengthy police interview.

The high profile lawyer is now considered the prime suspect in the investigation into Corryn Rayney's death.

Police raided his home in Como yesterday and subsequently charged him with tapping his wife's phone.

They have not laid charges over her death and say there are other persons of interest in the case.

Detective Senior Sergeant Jack Lee says Mr Rayney was not within his legal right when he refused to open his door to police yesterday, but it was his right to refuse to answer questions.

"He has a legal right to not cooperate during to not answer questions during an interview and he took that legal right so you could say it's non co-operation, but he's abided himself of his legal privilege," he said.

Source

IMHO, the dumber the police think you are the more they will try to get you to talk. If you choose not to talk they may start talking to you to observe your reactions to what they say. Refusing to say anything except identifying yourself isn't an admission of guilt. It demonstrates that you know you have rights. I was grilled by the pigs once until they found out who my lawyer was then they started treating me real civil. ;)

Don't ask me for the whole story because I can't recall.

[Torsten]

Legba, the example you provided is about police interviews, not about questions in court.

For reference a crime commission is kinda a mixture of the two, ie they have their own 'judge'.

[Jesus On Peyote]

Yea,i was talking about normal police interviews and interactions.

Thanks for the info guys, really helpful with identifying our rights.

Edited July 14, 2008 by Jesus On Peyote