G20 Protests

[reshroomED]

Without commenting on the protest itself, I have had experience with the practical uses of police horses.

I was hit whilst running (I would have been doing about 15ks, the horse much more) by a police horse. Thrown a good way, cracked ribs & contusions eyt. My crime was running towards a dispute between police and civilians.

A long time ago (one of the Mushroom Evolution concerts at the Myer Music Bowl), but I doubt that mounted-police tactics have changed much since then.

Anyone who sees 'use of force' by the police as benevolent has had little real-life experience with them, IMO.

ed

[nothinghead]

danemacca - You've repeated several times your belief about the fairness and restraint of the police as long as people behave themselves like good little protestors and do not start a "riot". If you have been to any number of protests, peaceful or otherwise, you would know this simply is not true. Even if you have had much experience with police outside the setting of a protest you would know this isn't true. On the whole, and especially when acting as a group the police are not a bunch of gentle and well disciplined people looking to uphold the law. They are violent, hateful and feel a great amount of superiority to those they attack. And the ones who are disciplined and honest and often misguided and of the mind that "just doing your job" is an honorable pursuit.

Furthermore, where was the riot? We have been getting some pretty weak "riots" in Australia lately, although I agree that it is a nice way to divert attention from the causes of these "riots".

You speak about the organisers of the protest "admitting" the event was a "fuck up". What you musn't realise is what I have reiterated in this thread: There was no single group at this protest. It was not an organised bloc. Many of the people involved do not subscribe to authoritarian regimes and hierarchical organisation. Try to understand this.

How many protests have you actually been involved in, or seen at a close distance? It doesn't seem like many from what you know about them, but you are more than happy to tell everyone how it is. Chronik Fatigue DID provide you with a significant historical case of evidence, cointelpro. Stop asking for news sources and use your own brain to work things out without having to have them fed to you.

It seems the only reason you are praising Australia and its freedom is relative to countries with significantly lower standards of living. This isn't an impressive way to think. Instead of looking at how aspects of Australia that are better than their counterparts under fascist regimes, why don't you try to assess our state independently of how bad things could be.

[Kenny Blister]

In regards to the Arterial Bloc, IMO it is unlikely they were all undercover provocateurs, whereby there had been prior arrangement to not arrest them. Too many people would have to know about it. It is likely that they were all genuine activists, however, it is possible there were one or two undercover provocateurs that encouraged or even instigated property damage.

For those interested, there was a segment on Triple J's Hack program last night that covered the protest. You'll be able to listen/download it next week.

[The Dude]

I have no idea about these particular protests. I'm sure that in these types of times any negative publicity that casts legitimate protest as violent lieftie activism, thus discrediting the Whole movement and creating an easy target is great for the g20 bros... also reat for us, we dont WANT to know bout exploitation, that hurts too much, fuckin activists raising awareness! argh! I rather continue my consumer life in ignorance to the rest of the planet I'm helping to rape. good on the police for puttin them inline and the media for tellin us how it is.

Simple truth is there is a history of this kind of provocation being organised by govt. agencies and such with he very interest of creating a stir and casting legitimate protests in a negative light, the mechanism of action is simple enough and itseems to have worked as every1 seems to be disgusted at the protesters as a whole.

My folks tell accounts of back in the old country with the commie shmucks trying to do their whole orwell shit on the country, they'd organise protests and be well aware of these shit-stirrers inplanted into the group and would pacify the fuckers asap. It is a common tactic dude, just fucking admit it. Your govt. and their higher ups don't have the interests of full awareness and discusssion about the issues among the common people - the very issues we are so well ignoring now - they rather label people and continue the hate game of casting blame at any1 trying to expose truth. Really we don't need the bs, implanted into that situation to pollute what should be a legitimate discussion about a real issue: Globalisation... It's Fucked

Edited November 21, 2006 by El Duderino

[nabraxas]

Furthermore, where was the riot? We have been getting some pretty weak "riots" in Australia lately

i second that.

some pushing & shoving, a police van's windows broken & one cop w/a lovebite---& that's supposed to be a riot?

shit, i've seen worse from the football fans.

[Kenny Blister]

Soon the Vic police will have tasers to put down all those pesky protestors... oh boy, won't that be fun!

Taser Related Deaths

[FungalFractoids]

Exactly zero. Never have I seen police charge 'in a cavalry fashion' into a crowd of 'innocent' unprovoking protesters. This is Australia, not China.

In other words, you are making judgements about a situation you have never witnessed nor been involved in. Maybe you would not be so quick to get on your high-horse (excuse the pun ) if you actually had first hand knowledge of how police operate, or even some decent second hand knowledge that doesn't come from the media, who always misrepresent things like this.

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the feedback from demonstration organisers. They themselves admit this incident was a complete fuck up. As soon as it got out of hand, all credibility for 'the cause' was lost and turned into a 'media circus'.

Which brings me back to the whole ASIO thing, what better way to strip legitimate protestors of credibility but by instigating violence.

Chronik...I am uttely speechless at and cannot comprehend how someone who seems fairly intellectual can actually post such rubbish, let alone believe it. If you would be able to provide some evidence to support your claim hat the Arterial Bloc are some undercover military faction I'd gladly have a read. Heck I'd even make a public apology if it seemed half convincing. But until then, Im am somewhere between perplexed and amused.

I don't have any credible sources (unfortunately the intelligence community isn't exactly open and accountable, in most cases we don't actua;;y learn about black-bag operations until long after they have occurred, just look at COINTELPRO for example). But anyone who has the slightest idea of how activist groups are infiltrated certainly wouldn't just write it off as a black-helicoptor style conspiracy theory, it is quite feasible. I mean, what do you think ASIO is doing with its massive funding increases , surely there aren't THAT many radical muslims in Australia? 97-98- $50 million, 04-05- $150 million. Why else would they go so far as to deport peaceful activists like Scott Parker if they weren't involved in some pretty heavy surveillence on activist types in Australai?

In response to your mounted police tactics. Its great to see you supported your case with documented evidence, however, I question the integrity and factuality of a report coming from an activist website. Of course they aren't going to welcome mounted police. Activistright.org is hardly reliable. Try again.

Nice, attack the source not the substance of the argument...

Would the Police Ombudsman report onto the World Economic Forum protests be any better/

I'd direct your attention to this paragraph:

“The use of horses by police should be evaluated in the same way as any

weapon used by police. What is the level of force being used? Is it reasonable in

the circumstances? Is it a proportionate response to the alleged offence being

committed?

We would argue that the use of police horses to ride or push into a crowd is a

significant level of force. Many protesters were injured by horses after being

stepped on or kicked. Others were injured after being pushed or crushed against

fences or other people by horses. While we recognise that officers are highly

trained in the use of horses the level of control is not absolute and there is a

danger that a horse will behave unpredictably and injure someone. In any

event, many officers on horseback behaved in a deliberate or reckless manner

riding into crowds, which inevitably led to people’s injuries.”

http://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/CA256F2D00...test_Report.pdf

Or this about horses trampling an Australian reporter, tabled in NSW parliament: http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/19/1037697664920.html

Edited November 25, 2006 by Chronik Fatigue

[FungalFractoids]

Anyone who sees 'use of force' by the police as benevolent has had little real-life experience with them, IMO.

ed

BOOYAH! My point exactly.

[Anodyne]

Why would they (the majority of those ‘rioting’) turn up to a peaceful protest wearing jumpsuits and hiding their identity behind masks and bandannas?

Ok, firstly - if you are going to a protest in a restricted area surrounded by cops, you wear soft, comfortable clothing - firstly because you're jammed in against a lot of other people and may be detained there for hours against your will (as at the high-school student's anti-Iraq war protest, where students were prevented from returning to school/home in order to get them in trouble), and secondly because you may be arrested if you wear ANYTHING that ANYONE could possibly be hurt with. Some protest organisers now recommend wearing no jewellery, spiky collars, buckle-belts, badges (they have pins ), and to leave keys, nail-files/scissors, or anything else that could POSSIBLY be construed as a weapon, elsewhere. Otherwise, if a cop sticks themself with the pin on your brooch while holding you so his mate can break your wrist, he can arrest you for attacking an officer with a concealed weapon (or whatever they call it)

Secondly, as someone pointed out, one reason to wear masks/bandannas is so when the capsicum spray/tear gas hits the fan, you may not have the time to put on a mask - and BTW, neither of those substances has ever been proven to be safe. Another reason is that you may not want ASIO having your picture on file (most large protests in this country are filmed by the cops).

I believe the Australian police, in this instance, and most (I won't say all because I cannot confirm this), show great restraint and do their duty, upholding the law and maintain order. By comparison, Australia is one of the most tolerating countries when it comes to freedom of speech. Seldom do they use offensive tactics. As for police 'hiding their identity', you and I know this is not what they are used for, its simple for their own safety.

But think about many of the situations in which they are "maintaining order". They protect the elected government, as well as any rich or favoured individuals or companies - not only from material damage, but also from "unauthorised protests" - which means you must get the cops to approve where & when you protest. And in return our government gives them much higher wages than any other public servants. They may be doing their duty (our police force has none of this nancy "to protect & to serve" bollocks - our cops motto translates roughly as "if you commit a crime, you will be punished") and upholding the law, but that doesn't mean it's right. They're also "doing their duty" when they arrest an 80-year old woman who smokes pot to stave off chemo symptoms.

And as for "restraint" - I think they show restraint only when they are sure they're being filmed. Even in small protests, cops normally find an area to block off from the media. I've seen people dragged behind concrete columns to have their wrists broken, within 20m of TV cameras. I've seen an undercover cop at an anti-war rally panic (he had been closed in front of a double-wall of cops & then some young Muslim men got too close to him) & spray the crowd with capsicum spray - he was in no danger, and the victims could only reach medical aid by walking through several dozen cops who were lining a back-street away from the media. And anyone who thinks that a wrist-lock is necessary for restraining a 16-year old girl is a fucking sadist. Is blocking off a whole street for 4 hours (to prevent high-school protesters from leaving until they could be searched - the net result was one tiny serrated fruit-knife in a kid's lunch-box) necessary to "maintain order"? Is it a measure of restraint to only arrest those with megaphones? Well, I say arrest, but as they're almost never charged with anything or even taken to a police station (they just drive them a few suburbs away & push them out), it's technically kidnapping. Were the cops "restrained" when they ripped the headscarves off teenage Muslim girls at one of the anti-war rallies, and then pulled them away by the hair?

Maybe some cops are restrained, but from what I've seen & heard, many cops at protests do whatever they can get away with.

And fair enough if "riot" cops wear transparent helmets. All cops are also supposed to wear a name badge. But at many protests I've been to they were not wearing badges. When we asked them why, several said that the badges could be ripped off them and the pins used as weapons, while most refused to speak to us at all. None of the cops without badges would tell us their names or even the station they were affiliated with. I strongly suspect this is because some cops are sent in (or just show up on their own) for the sole purpose of smacking around some hippies. The S11 protests in Melbourne got some great footage of this dodginess - some riot cops now have cloth patches as their name-tags to avoid providing protesters with a deadly weapon. But one shot has the documentary-maker asking a cop where his badge is - he replies "it must have fallen off". They then move to the next cop, who is also missing his badge, & ask him the same question, & he gives the same answer. They ask the 3rd cop, who says nothing. They then pan down a row of 20 or so cops, all with a neat little dark square where they'd taken off their patches. It also contains some horrendous footage of cops who are protected by a tall fence & in no danger from protesters, climbing up on the fence to bash in the heads of people packed too tightly to escape. According to the first-aid staff, several hundred protesters had to be treated - some *just* had sprains and bruises, others had fractured skulls, broken ribs & other bones, missing teeth, and spinal injuries.

[FungalFractoids]

ASorry about the bump, just little heads up for folk who might think police are above this kind of thing

Police accused of using provocateurs at summit

Aug 21, 2007 09:14 PM

Canadian Press

OTTAWA – Protesters are accusing police of using undercover agents to provoke violent confrontations at the North American leaders' summit in Montebello, Que.

Such accusations have been made before after similar demonstrations but this time the alleged "agents provocateurs" have been caught on camera.

A video, posted on YouTube, shows three young men, their faces masked by bandannas, mingling Monday with protesters in front of a line of police in riot gear. At least one of the masked men is holding a rock in his hand.

The three are confronted by protest organizer Dave Coles, president of the Communications, Energy and Paperworkers Union of Canada. Coles makes it clear the masked men are not welcome among his group of protesters, whom he describes as mainly grandparents. He urges them to leave and find their own protest location.

Coles also demands that they put down their rocks. Other protesters begin to chime in that the three are really police agents. Several try to snatch the bandanas from their faces.

Rather than leave, the three actually start edging closer to the police line, where they appear to engage in discussions. They eventually push their way past an officer, whereupon other police shove them to the ground and handcuff them.

Late Tuesday, photographs taken by another protester surfaced, showing the trio lying prone on the ground. The photos show the soles of their boots adorned by yellow triangles. A police officer kneeling beside the men has an identical yellow triangle on the sole of his boot.

Kevin Skerrett, a protester with the group Nowar-Paix, said the photos and video together present powerful evidence that the men were actually undercover police officers.

"I think the circumstantial evidence is very powerful," he said.

The three do not appear to have been arrested or charged with any offence.

Police confirm that only four protesters were arrested during the summit – two men and two women. All have been charged with obstruction and resisting arrest.

Veteran protester Jaggi Singh, who is helping to circulate the video as widely as possible, said all four of those arrested are known to organizers and are genuine protesters.

"But we see very clearly in that video three (other) men being arrested . . . How do (police) account for these three people being taken in, being arrested? Where did they go?" Singh said.

"I have no hesitation in saying they were police agents . . . and they were caught red-handed."

Singh, a member of the Montreal-based No One is Illegal, believes the agents were meant to provoke a confrontation and give the police an excuse to use some of their "toys," such as tear gas and rubber bullets.

"To a certain extent it's self-fulfilling logic. You provide police with this kind of equipment and they end up using it and one way to justify it is to plant some people that toss a rock or two."

Neither the RCMP nor the Surete du Quebec would comment on the video or even discuss generally whether they ever use the tactic of employing agents provocateurs.

"I cannot answer your question because I don't have the information," said Const. Kane Kramer, a spokesman for the RCMP at the summit.

http://www.thestar.com/News/article/248608