Good old Racism

[apothecary]

Sorry for the trollish title, couldn't help myself.

People use the word racist a lot these days and its sort of become just a buzzword that some like to use when they mean 'really really bad'.

So I thought I'd paste a recent example of good old 100% racism

(Please do not take the above seriously, I'm trolling, sorry, couldn't help myself).

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Australia unease at Perth ruling

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5366890.stm

An Australian court ruling that granted Aborigines the native title of Perth is of "considerable concern", Prime Minister John Howard has said.

The federal court judgement is the first time a metropolitan area has been ruled to belong to indigenous people.

Attorney-General Philip Ruddock warned that the ruling could have "significant implications" for Perth's citizens.

But indigenous leaders dismissed any suggestions they could take over people's homes.

In Tuesday's court ruling, the judge found that the Noongar people had proved their claim to more than 6,000 sq km (2,300 miles) of land in Western Australia, which includes the state capital, Perth.

Judge Murray Wilcox said his decision was "neither the pot of gold for the indigenous claimants nor the disaster for the remainder of the community that is sometimes painted".

Call for calm

But the Western Australian government has been encouraged by both Prime Minister Howard and the leader of the opposition to appeal the decision, the Sydney Morning Herald reported.

"Many people will regard it as somewhat incongruous [that] there could still be some residual native title claim in a major settled metropolitan area," Mr Howard said.

Mr Ruddock told national radio that the court decision could mean the public could be excluded from parklands, waterfronts and beaches.

But indigenous leaders appealed for calm and said they were "not after people's backyards or their farms".

"We're after recognition and if we get any type of benefit, it's to run businesses and train our people," Ted Hart, of the South West Aboriginal Land and Sea Council, told the Australian newspaper.

[Rev]

Yeah we need to sort this native title thing asap

and somehow make it merge into the realm of regular property and inheritance or trusts etc

ie tribes become like family trusts based on inheritance with lands held as freehold

- at least then aboriginal groups can have the freedom to buy more, sell off or even relocate! Tribal boundaries were always dynamic! setting them in stone is not a realistic expectationl

or native title access granted to community groups/clubs when needed under the same legal framework as any other entity - like a fishing lease, or water rights.

i do worry about the exclusions to the racial discrimination act that allow discrimination in favour of aboriginal people, and its open ended with no sunset clause, and no mechanisms to tell us if we are suceeding in levellinbg the playing field.

we need to be acting like it wont be needed forever because if it is then our society has failed reconciliation.

i dont think there can be 'good' racism, anymore than there ca be good wars, lies, torture or slavery, even when it has good intent it will always backfire because racism is an inherently malevolent ideology

[devance]

Well as its is a way of changing.

As a title to the land, which is threatening to the city people and its never going to happen anyway.

Have a thing where the land is converted to the legal right to buy land anywhere as a different nation state.

Casinos would fuel the change from Abos poor into rich with some honest work.

As was/is the case in the U.S. with the Indians.

I don't like casinos and gambling but is is a way of a community to get off the knees into a middle class society.

[sobriquet]

I was listening to a report about this on the AM program on ABC radio some days ago. I didn't think it was the disaster people paint it to be.

The native title grant was accompanied by the provision that it excludes all land that is currently in use. It means that any land that is already held under title or been allocated to use has what is termed 'extinguished' as far as the native title act goes.

So it means that existing titles are not under threat of any sort.

[devance]

Auxin and devance just made some obervations from the U.S. historical. form the that.

[nothinghead]

Casinos would fuel the change from Abos poor into rich with some honest work.

As was/is the case in the U.S. with the Indians.

I don't like casinos and gambling but is is a way of a community to get off the knees into a middle class society.

This assumes a few things which I'm not sure work.

The first is that it is more than likely there is not enough cohesion within most Indigenous communities to do something like open a casino. Moreover it's unlikely a casino would function well outside a capital city here, and this geographically excludes the majority of Indigenous peoples.

The second is the problem of determination, if higher education programs and grants aren't appealing to young Indigenous people as a source of hope and opportunity, the chance to run a casino probably isn't that inspiring or attractive. And if this situation did arise the money would end up in the hands of a few, not of a community. Capitalism guarentees this.

The third thing is that it seems like gambling has become a major problem with the First Nations peoples in the US/Canada. This probably isn't something to be encouraged. I don't think there can be a quick fix to Native Title or some kind of leg-up for Indigenous peoples into middle class society.

[devance]

So not enough cohesion within most Indigenous communities to do something like open a casino

Very true. What I was talking about indiviual tribes doing with the legal rights granted.

So every one Aus tribal can do so. Open a casino.

NZ as a consideration as well AUS.

Tribes can do stuff other as for preserving tribal land and simply getting money for the mineral rights and timber.

I haven't seen anything but mineral rights trade and at best the casino.

Might as well preserve the land before the natuaral resoures are savagely depleted. Which can be oil exporation rights within a 200 mile into the sea coast. NZ.

Casinos maybe.

[antecedent]

I'm not really sure I'd consider the way native land title was dealt with in the US with the casinos and tax laws and all that to actually have been successful. Indigenous communities there face a lot of economic problems in spite of all that as well as a lot of social problems... health and education problems, etc. and there have to be better ways to support a community than by helping them open a casino. The whole idea seems a little bit suspect to me.

Imagine what it would feel like if every day, hundreds of people came to the place you lived to buy cheap gas and fireworks and engage in activities that are illegal where they come from (for reasons like that they're addictive and damaging to a community), or imagine what it would be like for a child growing up in a place like that. I would imagine it would be hard to learn respect for other people, or for the place you live, or tradition, or lots of other things, when the reason your community is valued is because people can go there to gamble.

Even if it did make money it doesn't seem like it would actually do more good than hurt in the long run. I suppose the situation in Australia is a little bit different as well, since casinos don't appear to be illegal.

The idea of having native title become more similar to regular property which Rev talked about sounds more promising in the long run.. Can land that's part of this already be leased, like with rent paid to the community? It seems like this type of thing would be a lot more helpful, things like this decision in Perth are going in the right direction to me, but it's still just a start.

Also, it occurs to me that I've just ... shown up here and started talking, with no introduction at all. Though I did read the forums for a fairly long time before actually finally getting an account, so... Hi.

[occidentalis]

Hi Antecedent

Native title in Australia is basically symbolic. It's a nice symbol and I think this case in Perth is an excellent precedent, but it doesn't really carry much legal weight. In the metropolitan area, there is very little land that will actually be available under native title. Most of it is already 'alienated' under some other form of title. And any act of parliament can override an instance of native title where it is available. So even if indigenous people do find some land in the city that native title is relevant to, if the government wants to stop them having that title it could. Apart from being politically and philosophically despicable on so many other levels, this makes Ruddock's comments that 'they might stop us going to the beach' even more ridiculous.

[devance]

In the series Star Wars .

Ever wonder why that was a New Zealander Abo. was chosen for the ManHunter.