wandjina

I realise I have made quite a provocative post...especially given the demographic of these forums I also realise I have revealed that I have my own issues, that I find it difficult to live and let live (well, lettin' something live is one thing, accepting that 'it' does is another). Also, I feel I have been somewhat judgemental and arrogant, and I sincerely apologise to anyone I may have offended, but I stand by what i said, though I may change my mind at a later point. I often do. Lastly, though I may haughtily paint myself otherwise...Im the first to admit I aint as pure as the driven snow. We all have our shadows. Still, having the opinions I do about this subject, I am able to have strong and intimate friendships with people whose view of porn is radically different from my own. I respect them as people, though I may not appreciate some of their tastes or aspects of their behaviour. So I'm not comdemning anyone, ok? Of course it is true that not all ppl who are into porn that demeans women treat women badly (and Im talking people here please note!), but I would still argue anyone, male or female, who gets turned on by another human being humiliated or treated like a piece of meat is in some sense unevolved and not in touch with 'higher' aspects of their own being. Getting turned on by two (or more) happy, horny, humans enjoying eachother bodies is another kettle of fish! Where are we if we cannot empathise? I dont want to live in a society where only the best 'fuckers' survive.

please suggest a way for me and my fellow males to de-program 3 billion years of evolution, and we may take it on board. porn reflects the difference between men's desires and a woman's ability to keep up with them. this is obviously a generalisation, i'm sure there are women with high libido's. but typically, women represent the bottleneck in sexual activity. what is so shallow about engaging in the most biologically salient activity after eating and drinking? you have misunderstood/misinterpreted twix, I am sorry if I offended you I was referring to porn, and by extension, 'loveless' shallow fucking/sex. I guess i didnt express myself clearly enough. It seems as if you have interpreted my position as anti-sex...which couldnt be further from the truth! In a way, yes, porn may represent the diff between mens and womens desires, and women may be the 'bottle neck' alot of the time (though this has generally not been the case for me), but what i am really critiqueing here is the tendency in mainstream porn to demean women...in particular what seems a move towards more aggressive/violent themes, where women are humiliated and degraded. In reagrds to 3 billion years of evolution...I think re-programming is in order if ejaculating on someones face is seen as 'biologically salient'. I never said sex was shallow...please dont put words, or anything else, in my mouth. Moreover, those that enjoy watching women being humilated or hurt, or even just fucked hard and/or being come all over (especially the face)...have deep seated emotional and psychological blockages in regards to their mother, women and the feminine in general. i take offence to this, in much the same way you take offence to generalisations in other threads made about women. i respect women, love them and appreciate them. i've also been described as somewhat effeminate. but as a male, i must also come to grips with the fact that i'm programmed to fuck fuck fuck, and this leads to sexual frustration. cumshots are rampant in porn because each scene typically follows a script, with the scene ending with a guy cumming on her face. i guess it offers 'more bang for your buck', pun intended, but on the odd occasion i do watch and enjoy this. so what? maybe we jack off to these things to get that part of our selves out of our system, so we can resume respecting women? i have no more 'blockages' over my mother, than you might over your father. as a guy, i've come to terms with the need to be monogamous, yet having an endless desire to fuck. all this sort of shit does is generate guilt about our sexuality. Again, i am sorry if I caused offence...but that is my opinion. Perhaps a little strong re watching the face cum thing, I know its popular, but thats my gut feeling towards it and what it represents. Im sure there are some women who enjoy having their face cum on, but I am not one of them. In my opinion it is degrading, and in my experience only men who have women issues seem to want to do it, or try to...in fact, the times men done it to me it has been without my consent. In my, and many of my friends experience, guys who feel they need to do this have issues with women, and often do not care whether they like it or not. It just seems very immature to me. If you like it, and enjoy watching it, fine, thats your prerogative... base, yes. unevolved, no. our species would go nowhere if males weren't rampantly sexual, and females reservedly monogamous. yep...i suspected the arguement would go back to the ABC evolutionary theory (although the details of sexual selection have not gone unchallenged)....nevertheless, a overly reductionist refuge IMO. Again, you have misunderstood or I have not made myself clear...by 'unevolved' I am not necessarily talking about evolution in a biological Darwinian sense...but rather in a subtler 'spiritual' sense (for want of a better term). enjoy your target catalogue!

Hurting people for pleasure, physically and emotionally is a really fuct up part of the human psyche, and anyone who does these things for pleasure, for me, the world is better of without.i guess its where i can start to believe in a good and an evil. and to me, abusive porn is definately evil, and no doubt that when a mans mind becomes infatuated with it, is indeed in danger of losing his soul to a dark demise, there are evil forces at work there. basically, great sex with oragsms and smiles alroundno matter what the fetish is involved,is 'FUKEN AWESOME'! I agree...but yeah, not decided on the whole good and evil thing as yet. Which is not too say that i dont believe in 'dark' energies...there is no denying their existance....our relationship to them is another matter I guess. Taking a more philosophical stance, one in which all is self and hence reality as we experience it is a 'reflection' of self, then even the most extreme human behaviour - evil - is a part of self. I have enormous difficulty accepting this at times, enormous difficulty accepting certain behaviours and 'tastes' - in this instance, ppl who get a kick out of watching their fellow human beings humiliated/degraded/debased etc. Of course there are many different flavours/gradations of this...some very subtle (eg. the rampant objectification evident in mainstream advertising), some extreme (violence and torture). In this dominator society, 9 times out of 10 it's women being treated this way, including in the day-to-day life of women in much of the developing world, to say nothing of the implicit/overt sexism (and other isms for that matter) that continues here and in the rest of the ostensibly free world. IMO alot of porn is a reflection of overarching, permeating social currents....it is embedded in the cultural matrix...and like other cultural products shows us something of where 'we' are at. A barometer of sorts. Now we can be all 'postmodernist' here, take a relativistic stance, and argue that what porn 'really' is is merely a construct...and well, yeah, it is...but I dont buy into the view that all views are equal. Sure, taken to the extreme maybe there's no philosophical or natural law I can hang a case on, maybe all we've got is encultured personal preference. Well, for what its worth, my encultured personal preference, my view, is that ultimately the vast majority of porn appeals to a primitive part of ourselves, and, as E said, is merely... stripping the act of love down to bare physicality I thought a bit about this whole thread after posting...and realised how disinterested in porn I have become. I told myself I didnt look anymore because it would screw up my computer...but I can see now that I have almost completely lost interest. There is defiantly nothing wrong with my libido, and I'm not a prude by any means (within the confines of a monogamous relationship...well, i guess i am a bit old fashioned then lol)...but after having a brief look at a few sites, all i was left with was an empty feeling. It doesnt do much for me anymore... Sex detached from love is superficial...and for me, boring. It is not enough. Human beings are beautiful, sex is beautiful....and i appreciate beauty. But hetero porn seems limited to certain types...women who look like girls, literally (shaved, skinny, often tiny breasts), but mostly teens...very rarely rubenesque, fertile goddesses...not even rubenesque...you rarely see natural looking ppl at all. I suspect the image of a fertile, healthy, empowered woman is antithetical to what most hetero porn is about....power. Same deal with all these men with hairless bodies, dicks like marrows and tans Ricardo Montalban would envy. Its all so plastic, so superficial and lacking in substance. We could say that porn is shallow, and hence appeals to the shallow (or at least the shallow parts of us). Alternatively, it appeals to the primitive, the animal...and other 'darker' parts of self that revel in the blood and guts, the thrill of the hunt, or a pack mentality. Not that there is anything intrinsically 'wrong' with these aspects of being, but i would argue that we can chose to move in another direction, a direction in which such cheap thrills lose their appeal. As some here would appreciate, there are far deeper and more challenging facets of self to explore...far far deeper and darker, far far more complex, bizarre and fascinating territories to fathom. Even the most hard-core porn/sexual fetish is a picnic by comparison. I feel that attachment (addiction even) to porn-mediated self-gratification may be an obstacle...and perhaps that the more 'extreme' the taste... the further away one may be from other parts of self. I would also say that the fact that women are the focus in most porn, and are by and large being degraded in one form or another...this says alot not only about gender equity in our society (and lack thereof), but also our relation to the feminine in all its forms...in all it represents. I have noticed that ppl who are least in touch with their feminine sides (men and women), are often those that have the hardest time letting go in peak experiences, especially with tryptamines. Moreover, those that enjoy watching women being humilated or hurt, or even just fucked hard and/or being come all over (especially the face)...have deep seated emotional and psychological blockages in regards to their mother, women and the feminine in general. Feeling satisfaction in watching someone being dominated/demeaned/treated as a play thing reveals unresolved resentment and unsatisfied needs IMO etc etc. All very Freudian sounding i know, but theres alot in that IMO. Whilst i beleive that if all parties are consenting and are enjoying then its none of mine nor anyone elses business what they do...from a 'spiritual/evolutionary' perpsective there is something quite anachronistic about porn, and about sex without love or connection beyond the physical. From one angle its unevolved and base. There are other things we can do that are an order of magnitude more satisfying, fullfilling, life-affirming, healing and fun than watch strangers jam stuff up other strangers orifices. Personally, I'd much prefer to make love

some more positive vibes headed your way!!!

I am so sorry to hear that this has happened to you guys...fucken hell! Apoth is right, call from another number and demand to speak to a manager from word go. sending good vibes your way in the hope that this is sorted ASAP

PH...you need to emphasise what a rare opportunity this is!!! I reckon you're being too modest People, this is a once in a lifetime offer!!! Kick arse ethno collection, whole house to yourself, virtually rent-free, tropical climate, close to big town...invaluable experience in the unique nursery of the world-famous Planthelper! Be quick!!!!

some interesting info here, the 'Ambien vault' http://www.erowid.org/pharms/zolpidem/ there were some posts a while ago re zolpidem...or was that at EBA? Cant remember. I've taken stilnox a few times, and was intrigued by the unusual effects, most notably a feeling of 'presence' and some cevs. I quite liked it, but not enough to take for kicks. They have been used recently to wake people from persistent vegetative states, to almost normal states, when the drug wears off they return to the persistent vegetative states. It has worked on people who have been out for over 10 years! yeah, there was a great thread on that...but where is it? I couldnt find it

hear hear Komodo!...nice to have you on board

actually...earlier would be good for me as I may have to enrol in-person for a course on the 20-somethingth...but dont rearrange on my account. Not sure I can make it 100% anyways

they are usually the ppl that believe the Strychnine/mushie story. they got it all wrong man...its LSD that's laced with rat poison

I've never understood this fetish... It's not my cup of tea, but I can kinda get my head around pee....but faeces? *shudder*

gorgeous!!! I love this one.. http://www.sublimatrix.com/html/Yemanja.html beautiful

this will be very interesting! what a cool idea Cant say i know any by name though...lately I have more often been thinking about the feeling of being guided/instructed from afar, and about faith. Never really bought into the whole 'faith' thing before...always associated the word with conventional (judeo-christian monotheistic) notions of God, of belief...but more and more it is taking on another meaning, or rather, a feeling, living presence. ahhh

That was brilliant, best and most even-handed overview I've seen to date...thanks alkatrope!

Wow, he sounds fantastic!!! Such a pity there arent many psychiatrists like him left. When he did his training the psychoanalytic 'paradigm' would still have been dominant, and biological reductionism was frowned upon ...nowadays psych education doesnt include nearly as much of a focus on psychodynamic or 'talk' therapies, much much more on neurochemistry/psychopharm. As they say...psychiatry found the brain but lost its mind! A real tragedy...and a contributing factor to todays mental health crisis IMO. Of course, economic factors play a large role here...long-term (however defined) psychotherapy just isnt as cost effective as doling out a box of pills!

thanks tepa...funny stuff

hear hear Torsten and Jono! and nice sentiment Yowie I havent peroused porn sites for ages...mostly because im worried about what it might do to my computer, and also because it just doesnt hold much interest for me much these days. If I was to, I would really only want to look at material where all parties are enjoying themselves...but as has already been mentioned, this is clearly not the case with the vast majority of mainstream hetero porn. Yuck! and soooooo boring. In the past I've gotten way more out of watching gay stuff, because it always seemed to me that everyone was having fun (at least in the ones ive watched)...sure beats watching peroxide blonde silicone-titted 'lesbians' get it on. Oh purrlease! There is supposed to be porn made by women for women...but havn't heard much about it, or bothered looking. All and all, I get alot more out of erotic art, from the classical to contemporary Japanese stuff (some, not all!)....Bondage Fairies used to be one of my faves. any good hentai sites?

Pshyciatatrist said enough is enough(so did I),yet he agrees that altered states are the key for insight whether plant induced,meditative states or endogenous. What a funky-arse psychiatrist! does he have any like-minded colleagues in Sydney?

The things I've written above are a bit of 'man-2-man' chat. I'm not surprised a female would not take it for what it is. yeah, being a woman i couldn't possibly understand what you really mean, or appreciate the context...clearly, due to my gender, i am bound to misinterpret such things....best I stay in the ladies lounge from now on eh? Obviously this is secret mens business! I'm not saying I have any special understanding over people, but when you take on the role of objective impersonal observer rather than an emotionally involved participant in your own life you quickly see the games being played everyday. Even in your closest relationships there are games, and it's easier to understand and get on top of the situation if you know or have an understanding of these things. Even with your parents, children or partners, the human animal is a game player. Well...there are games, and there are games...it also depends how one defines 'game'. The entirety of human behaviour may be conceptualised as game playing...but being deliberately dishonest and manipulative so as to gratify oneself (at someone elses expense) is selfish and immature, no matter what you call it. With age and experience one would hope that most people would outgrow 'selfish game playing' that hurts or takes advantage of others...especially those who may be vulnerable. The vulnerable, in turn, have their own limitations to transcend. I would also question 'objectivity' and 'impersonal' here...one persons 'objective impersonal observations' may lead to very different conclusions than anothers. I have often noticed, as an objective impersonal observer , that a popular strategy when couples are arguing (politicans use it too incidentally) is to label the opponents argument as subjective, as emotionally charged and hence invalid, whilst identifying their own arguement as objective and neutral/value free. It's quite effective, and is often used by the ostensibly dominant party to quash objection or protest in attempts to maintain the status quo. Bah humbug! We're all biased

3 months is a bit over the top though. what about 2 years involving exxy item?

My friend being older than me and much more experienced in life and women, said that he felt sorry for the bastard with her. I said why? And he said to consider myself lucky... that I get to look at her fineness and go on living my life whereas that guy would have to put up with so much bullshit it wouldn't be worth it. I only realised he was right many years later, that after being with a few 'prissy' chicks that they're OK for a while but in the end even the finest body and excuse the concept, but the sex is just as routine and boring as with a more down to earth chick. It feels the same! In fact the bonyness of some of these girls is definitely not missed after I've been with more normal figured women. I dont want to be too critical here sobriquet...but bring on the sweeping generalisations!!! Not all 'chicks' with the 'finest bodies' are high maintenance. What a superficial perspective!! What...and all women with 'normal' bodies are down to earth? Some of the biggest bitches I've known were physically 'normal'. Why do people buy into this crap...guys and girls...that if someones physically beautiful they're nasty, conceited etc etc. The most, truly, beautiful and attractive ppl are so because of who they are inside, no matter their outer appearance. All this 'women/girls are x', 'women/girls do y' shit is rubbish....in the same category as 'all men are bastards/usres/insensitive'. Utter bullshit! Also for the guys who are chasing a lady, it's always a good idea to be thought of as already taken. I'd always found that I'd suddenly have other women to flirt and get with whenever I became committed to someone else. Women love the attached or married man, and more so if one has children. I keep meeting guys who say their sick of women/girls who play games...and you are advising ppl to do this! Game playing is for the emotionally retarded and psychologically immature, it is dishonest and manipulative. It's biological. A woman puts an enormous time and effort into the biological imperative which is the production of children compared to the several minutes a man puts in. To see an established man who is committed to a woman and is virile enough to have sired children has a biological attraction to women. Perhaps, but why project an image that isnt true by 'thinking' of yourself as already taken. Why not just be who you are, be genuine? And after a certain time in life, women become a lot more savvy with this. Younger than 21 they're in a different world believing all the commercial rubbish about romance etc. When they see what life is about, and especially if they've been in a serious relationship or two, the smarter ones know what to look for in a life partner. yuck...how patronising and sexist! The 'smarter ones'? You talk about women as if they're a different species! And if you know what you're doing then it's a breeze being with any woman you fancy. bah! How sleezy. It's actually ridiculously easy to sleep with any woman you want if you have a bit of experience. Any woman eh? It's laughable that I struggled through alot of my life wondering what the answer was to the whole problem of being with a woman you love. Unfortunately nowadays I'm not in a position to make use of all this experience My advice overall is don't worry about even the most apparently special girl you have in your life. The world is full of them and you'd be surprised how special each and every one of them is in their own way. You just have to tune in and you'll see what I mean. and now you're an expert eh? IMO its quite obvious you dont really understand or respect women sobriquet... sure, there's some generalisations we can make about human behaviour...but your overall tone is tinged with misogyny. If you're looking for the real thing ppl, be yourself...dont play games.

Girls like playing games as they always want to have what they can´t get. dont forget....so do boys! you're right...it's human

Girls don't respect guys who treat them like a princess. They seem to like guys that are absolute pricks to them. Weird huh? i reckon! girls love being treated like shit. guess it's their equivalent of playing hard to get. Not true!!! Funny though...I'd say the same thing about a few of my male friends. Always going for the woman who doesn't seem that interested, and turns out not to be. Then there's the nice guys who go for henpeckers and over-bearing control freaks who always nag and criticise them...why would anyone want to be treated like that? It takes all sorts! Men and women both do it, hetero/gay/bi...it's human. But yes, there does seem to be a fair amount of women who seem to be attracted to bastards...been there myself a couple times. Thing is, some bastards/bitches first project an image that is so sweet and charming...the aloof, undermining, disrespectful, nasty and abusive stuff doesn't come out until they feel they've got you. Plus, I think the woman (or man etc) has to have low self-esteem to start with to wind up in that kind of relationship. I know thats whats been 'in it' for me...settling into a nice comfy maladjusted pattern. No more of that thankyou very much! But heaven knows ill probably kiss a few more frogs In my life I've been in love twice, and both men treated me like a princess in their own way...and i definately respected them.

Oh dear god...I hope its not contagious!!!

Vale psycho0