folias

Have fun in Angola guys! Make sure to get the hotel to pick you up from the Airport, as there are no taxi's in Luanda! That shaman I put you onto, I can vouch that once you get past the hard and damned scary exterior and all the stuff he puts you through and does - he's a Good man... he hasn't eaten anyone for some years I hear... and that survival course test he designed through the land mine fields... I hear you can skip that part if you grease his palms with only 150 EUROS! So don't listen to the nay sayers about this guy... he knows his business! And also, if the Angolan's begin to ask questions about your siblings and intimate relationships, make sure to take the opportunity to lie - lie through your teeth, say you are Shane Warne's first cousin and were the best man at Ricky Pontings younger brothers wedding! You will thus find the way before you clear like the red sea, and everyone around you will suddenly be on the ground... and you will have followers of up to 500 Angolese... if they all at once try and sell you useless trinkets or ear massages though, don't respond, pause 8 seconds (I calculated this), and THEN say "Bugger Your Pump Shiva Yeti!" very LOUDLY... look at their three eyes harder than they do, and then soften your three eyes into no eyes, and they will know EXACTLY what you are talking about and leave you alone then... trust me, it is only way to be at peace, to derail the madness... Julian.

It just clicked to me, that CS actually stands for an act of male sexual performance involving the lips and mouth... Julian.

I found 0.2% in a good strain of Longifolia bark once... it was mild... I don't feel this tree really has much chutzpah and really mature specimens can be hard to find... Sophorae has never come up positive after about half a dozen tests at different times of the year... I've tested most of these species a few times... alpina - negative, but have heard reports. courtii - quite rare, never searched it out! t dallachiana - negative floribunda - negative longissima - unsure mucronata - negative! orites - very negative Don't know about any of these or have heard anything about them... A. Crassa, A. concurrens, A. leiocalyx and A. longispicata are all in the Julliflorae section with anastomising veins also... I haven't searched them out either... as they only have a very limited distribution and are notoriously difficult to ID... and I have never felt called to any of them. Concurrens seems to me to be the most likely prospect! There are a few species on the east coast which contain a goodly amount of tryptamines which various people know about, and they have their own reasons for not sharing this information it seems! Julian.

don't worry, within 14 months or so your order should arrive! Julian.

I'd say don't worry about doing this unless you know someone who can show you directly, or you are prepared to spend a long, long time invovled in a process of trial and error, possibly over a few months! People living in NSW has an advantage as there are obtusifolias right along the coast there if you look hard enough! Julian.

In victoria, I've found DMT only once in one of those bipinnate wattles, of which there seem to be many different species and strains which seemed to elude the traditional classification formulas, after a while of researching the trees arond Victoria I gave up, (also, I don't live there, so its hard!) Although, I believe it was a Acacia Mearnsii (commonly known as Black Wattle) in the Strathbogie Ranges... Because the DMT content seemed very seasonal...and you could have DMT in one tree and round the hill a different tree would have nothing, which seems to be a common theme in many wattles, it also seemed very seasonal, although Autumn was when I found the species... winter may be a better time (it usually is!) The DMT (at least I assume it was!) came out entirely clear (so it seemed to be very, very pure!) and at a content of 0.5%... and was a very friendly plant spirit! Maidenii is not active in any useful way anywhere when I have found them... but I know people who say they know of extra good strains in the right season! Julian.

hey T, welcome to the cyber antipodes! We don't think you are so much a "crazy" typo munchkin down here! Julian.

Stephen Colbert recently performed a comedy routine at the White House Press Corp dinner lambasting Bush and cronies in front of his face, which has been completely ignored by the U.S. mainstream media. They say his brand of irony and sarcasm is just not funny, however, it is doubtful that anyone has ever gotten to critisise Bush with anything like this ferocity in front of his face - ever. But the lack of reporting of what some are saying is a historical moment, is not surprising, considering Colbert's assesment of the U.S. press! "But, listen, let's review the rules. Here's how it works: the president makes decisions. He's the decider. The press secretary announces those decisions, and you people of the press type those decisions down. Make, announce, type. Just put 'em through a spell check and go home. Get to know your family again. Make love to your wife. Write that novel you got kicking around in your head. You know, the one about the intrepid Washington reporter with the courage to stand up to the administration. You know - fiction!" and here is a small excerpt from the transcript: " Mark Smith, ladies and gentlemen of the press corps, Madame First Lady, Mr. President, my name is Stephen Colbert and tonight it's my privilege to celebrate this president. We're not so different, he and I. We get it. We're not brainiacs on the nerd patrol. We're not members of the factinista. We go straight from the gut, right sir? That's where the truth lies, right down here in the gut. Do you know you have more nerve endings in your gut than you have in your head? You can look it up. I know some of you are going to say "I did look it up, and that's not true." That's 'cause you looked it up in a book. Next time, look it up in your gut. I did. My gut tells me that's how our nervous system works. Every night on my show, the Colbert Report, I speak straight from the gut, OK? I give people the truth, unfiltered by rational argument. I call it the "No Fact Zone." Fox News, I hold a copyright on that term. I'm a simple man with a simple mind. I hold a simple set of beliefs that I live by. Number one, I believe in America. I believe it exists. My gut tells me I live there. I feel that it extends from the Atlantic to the Pacific, and I strongly believe it has 50 states. And I cannot wait to see how the Washington Post spins that one tomorrow. I believe in democracy. I believe democracy is our greatest export. At least until China figures out a way to stamp it out of plastic for three cents a unit. In fact, Ambassador Zhou Wenzhong, welcome. Your great country makes our Happy Meals possible. I said it's a celebration. I believe the government that governs best is the government that governs least. And by these standards, we have set up a fabulous government in Iraq." full transcript here. http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/4/30/1441/59811 and links to videos here http://www.boingboing.net/2006/04/29/steph...lbert_kick.html Julian.

I'm reading "the future of man" by Teilhard de Chardin at the moment... in terms of evolutionary analysis, he is da man! Julian.

The Pandanus strains along the nsw coast are inactive as far as I can tell... the one's in papua new guinea may well be more active! Julian.

I like Pinchbeck's writing style... and look forward to reading his new work... I feel he is a bit lost and strangely enough, intellectually ungrounded in the perrenial philosophy and spiritual classics that give one a good view of coherent and agreed upon concepts, which actually, as a writer removes a lot of unecessary work and explanation... he doesn't seem to have hit the real point of it yet, but his journey I think represents that of a lot of people. Julian.

I talked to a portugese girl today (where the same laws apply) and she says drugs have always been rife in Portugal and now it is no different! it's just people don't get arrested for possesing them and police focus their energy on other things... Julian.

Foot patches are originally from Japan and there is one company in Australia selling what are by far (I reckon) the best foot patches on the market. http://www.detox-patches.com/footsies/ They are basically these patches containing 50% tourmaline, 30% bamboo wood vinegar, Loquat Leaf, Chitosan and Houttuynia Cordata. There are some Korean foot patches on the market here too... but they are not nearly as good! They are just not of the same quality and I have found are just not as effacious! I have found these products to be the most experientially powerful of their kind I have ever encountered... I suspect they pull out a lot more than just heavy metals. (you can get your foot patch anaylsed and see what chemicals it contains which some people do...) I feel better and better the more I use these... and last night had dreams about foot patches! I recommend the tranquility patches... they are expensive, usually $50 for 20 foot patches, but I have found that after food, they are pretty much one of the most essential things I buy these days... Julian.

updated the site link, should work now! I enjoy ear candling too... but don't know how effacious it is at actually that much! I have noticed benefits from doing it... but nothing major. as to them pulling out heavy metals... on the site you see hair analysis tests... http://www.detox-patches.com/footsies/research/ You can buy these tests yourself over the net... These are very, very big in Japan....and lots of research has been done on them. Also, there is some indications of some research here...and a bit more in depth info than the footsies site than the contents of typical japanese made foot patches. http://www.herbalremedies.com/detoxify-product.html "Multiple pads for various individuals were analyzed by using a syncrometer. The syncrometer, an electronic device used to detect individual substances by using a circuit and matching frequencies. The following substances have been identified in the used pads through this method: benzene, isopropyl alcohol, methyl alcohol, aluminum, cadmium, copper, lead, mercury, nickel, thallium, arsenic, asbestos, DAB dye, fast green dye, sudan black dye and PCB (plastic byproduct)." Julian.

Been listening to a lot of Pinback recently... especially their album "Blue Screen Life"... a masterpiece of mutantly intricated southern californian pop! http://www.pinback.com Also, Sufjan Steven's "Come on feel the illionoise", I have been finding very relevant recently! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufjan_Stevens Julian.

Penny, Good on you for really going the distance with this one and revealing your personal life in this manner…I would say not enough people are prepared to do this in the spirit of communication! I’ll pretty much stick to the main points you have brought up here regarding what we have been talking to each other about…. As there is so much one could possibly reply to! (surely major parts of your life story!) Regarding, flower essences….personally, I can say that I have been given bach flower remedies by various people close to me… mostly from older men… beginning when I was 18… I never noticed a major effect from them…or really felt anything happening at all with them… the people who gave them to me said they could see changes… but then, these were often times of change (which came first?) And something else, I though of at the time, is that people take all kinds of vitamins and supplements and herbs…and how many people can really notice or tell that a change is occurring or that they are “working”! Then I encountered the bush flowers in 1998, and I could feel them and how they worked immediately… then over a few years, I took flower essences many times (often a different blend every week!) from many different makers and made flower essences and have been friends with people who have been making flower essences for many, many years! Now, this is the interesting part, even though I could feel the flower essences working on me, and would communicate with the devas of the flower, and they would give me very precise and intricate information about the flower essence – should be used, I still myself didn’t totally BELIEVE they worked! There was a part of me which couldn’t/wouldn’t believe/compute this… it took quite some time, before I in, some sense, just gave up this idea of believing and not believing… in very simple terms, the clincher in the physical plane (and I’m not dismissing that!) was experiencing the effects of the flowers I made on myself and on other people, the internal and external evidence was overwhelming, and it was not just one case of conclusion, it was dozens of experiences and observations until it was simply a matter of practical and evident observation of many faceted effaciousnes rather than belief or disbelief. That was over years of research, I’ve read most books you can find on flower essences, I even considered doing courses overseas to see what else I could learn… and making this my lifes work. It still really surprises me how powerful these vibrational essences are, and so when someone dismisses the effaciousness of flower essences based upon their own theories or presumptions, its simple, I consider that they really don’t know what they are talking about because it is usually ONLY mental theory, ideas and doubt and disbelief all posit the expressions of a closed mind. And I know this is not the case with you… and I am glad you have explained more of how you came to believe in how you understand flower essences, but, it does seem you were not operating in ideal, clear, objective conditions in order to really come to a conclusion about the effaciousness of flower essences for EVERYONE! And then it did seem to me you had an emotional charge about this issue, and I am glad you have cleared up why this may have been the case! I had a similar story with entities as I had with flower essences, I met hundreds and hundreds of entities over about three years… yet there was still a disbelieving part of me there, which questioned and wondered what was going on here, question if it was in fact exactly as it said it was and stated how it was, or something else....if how I interpreted them actually was accurate as I was interpreting them. No matter how real, how stark these beings were (sometimes more real than most humans!), even when they came into my body and began speaking through me… there was a part of me which could not “believe” I think it was the night one interdimensional amorphous being, in equisite details, actually came to my stomache and touched and played with my present energy configuration in a way nothing else ever had, and I could feel them and see them in the same way I would see any human being. And at that point, the weight of unbelieving particles, just threw out the whole mental apparatus as actually being able to interpret and experience these beings… from then on in, I have experienced them and communicated to them at a totally different level of apprehension – which is the type of apprehension and communication they come to me with. For people who don’t believe in entities, I can understand, because like I said, it would have taken me the visitation of a few hundred or so until I TOTALLY ceased to question mentally in the ordinary sense. And I know what it takes until that whole mechanism is no longer needed… (some may see this view as being arrogant, but for me, it is sincerely how I see it!) And perhaps a very, very slim percentage of human beings living on this planet would have any idea of the possibility of the existence of such beings, let alone actually experience them! Flower essences are not that common around the world either! Now, the thing about the essences from flower, is that they are not innately necessarily designed to “fix” problems or states that we as human beings have, that is perhaps a human demand or want for them… AND, even if they are, the whole system of flower essences companies only having a limited range of essences which are supposed to treat any human being is actually a little bit erroneous! Ideally, one has the choice of thousands of essences to choose from all over the world, to choose the exact one and combination of flowers that can assist and help in any given situation! (I used to order essences from overseas sometimes!) BUT, I find, it is not in the realm of assistance or “help” or alleviating problems, that flower essences are actually the most useful. It is in the spirit of wanting to communicate and commune with the consciousness of the plant and learn from that plant, and enter into a communion and understanding… there are benefits and gifts in this communication and resonance… and in some sense, we must choose to enter into this consciously as an evolutionary act… so that is my approach to flower essences. It is in that light, in which I find that they work and are beneficial for human beings… of this I have no doubt whatsoever. Over the past few weeks I have been reading a lot of your posts at SAB, EBA and other forums, (along with many other peoples posts in preparation for my research), and a defining characteristic of many of them is a flagrant disregard for, or jocular dismissal of, other peoples beliefs, or religion, and for anything that is seen to fall within the category disparagingly referred to as ‘culture’. Well, from my perspective, it is more a critical appraisal of the way the human mechanism is used… that’s right, I don’t feel that the natural and integrated way of human beings lies in culture, religions, belief systems, thoughts, theories…anything that addresses us back to the some form of mentality, as a referential guidance system. This kind of approach is not new, by any means, but it is rare… and there is teeth there… and it is unapologetic! However, that said, I’m disappointed that you don’t seem able to yield and admit to being as full of (metaphorical) shit and brokenness as the rest of us. Its not really the way of common debate is it? You’ll find my web site is rather raw… actually I am more likely to admit my “brokenness” than most! (and whatever the antithesis of that is!) http://www.conone.org/conscripta.html Some people think I AM full of shit! ("dood!, your whole schtick is based upon a mad homeless baglady you were stalking!) And that's deliberate on a few levels perhaps! Many people, including yourself, say they don’t really believe anything, but its clear that you do, even if its for a moment, or an hour or a micro second. We all do. I see that as more of a ‘faithfulnes’ that form of belief… I think we would both benefit from being more humble, showing more humility, and allowing ourselves to see the arrogant and narcissistic aspects of our personalities that others experience as harsh, rude, supercilious and disrespectful. I know people see it in me, and I’m getting better at seeing it in myself…and, with due respect, it takes one to know one. I can see and sense it in you, but I also sense you are unwilling to own it, or are perhaps not particularly conscious of it in your day to day life. Or perhaps you are, and simply don’t care about other peoples feelings and sensibilities? I don’t think that is the case. I don’t believe in “showing” more humility, or being more “humble”… as these are active statements of being, which are supposed to be the opposite of what you are talking with. I think you are judging negatively here, and then providing what society believes to be more positive traits… when is this self acceptance? If one is working with one’s ego, I think acceptance works best, and then gentle tempering! I think it comes down to not being harsh… ultimately, and being more gentle! I’m into learning to be more gentle… So I extend my hand in friendship, and humbly apologise for being such a hard arsed cow. But you still bug me I’m glad you find me provocative! And I do often favour the latter…the mental plane. In part this is a result of my maladjustment to family dynamics and the effect of various events in my life…from another perspective it is because I have become accustomed to the conventions of academic/scholarly argument and debate, within which one must try to stay objective, minimize personal bias, and only in some very ‘post modern’ fields, insert the self and ones experiences into an argument. And, Penny, I think really, I was just pointing out that actually, although you were positing something a scholory/academic approach, here, I felt your dismissal of flower essences was emotional… and non-objective. You may see this as, or denigrate this, as fallacious, and see my perspective as ‘aesthetic snobbery’…but from where I stand you are doing the exactly same thing to what you call the ‘mental plane’. Making an arbitrary and sweeping generalisation about something, and here I am referring to academia and its various disciplines, that you are not very experienced or versed in. Sure, academia works for what it is! But I am not saying it doesn’t work at all! Julian.

Penny, I read all of this in a kinda nice icecream shop/internet place in ballina! it was the most sincere, bestest forum post I've ever read! Will reply when I am far from prawn country... and can give some time to replying! Julian.

You are very intelligent, yet it seems when an intellectual basis cannot be found to defend your argument and its underlying ideologies, then the 'fall back' position rests on thinly veiled personal attacks...accusing the 'opposition' of being didactic, pompous, reductionist and inexperienced. heh, I’m not actually not depending on an “intellectual” basis for my “argument”… and I would say I actually don’t have one! I just see reasons why you are using certain systems to construct and deconstruct certain forms of reality… and its obvious to me you really don’t know what you are talking about regarding flower essences and vibrational medicine, because you haven’t studied the field! However, your tone here has a malicious edge that tongue gifs cannot conceal, which I don't feel is at all necessary. There is also the implication that I am lying or perhaps exaggerating, which is, as I have said before in regards to another aspect of your discourse, a not very sporting approach to winning a debate. Perhaps a discussion based solely on content is too challenging? We do not know eachother, and I can not empirically prove to you or anyone else whether or not I have taken flower essences...so there's not much I can do if you can chose to paint me as a liar and hypocritically do to my argument and 'actualities' what you have critcised me for doing to yours. I personally think you are hiding in the mental plane as the only valid plane and the one by which all must refer back to and be referenced back to… which I consider a fallacious (and very common) way of perceiving reality. That you are doing this so smugly makes you fair game for the pointing of this out as far as I am concerned! I can see what you're saying...but you are still basing your argument on the a priori metaphysical assumption that the experiences and 'actualities' you refer to occur in a social and cultural vacuum. That is, you seem to believe that personal beliefs, expectations and world-views do not play a part in human experience, and in the creation of reality in general. yeah, sure they do… but they are not the meat of it… or don’t HAVE to be. You deny the possibility that observation can be theory laden, in fact, you appear to deny the attributes 'theory' and 'idea' to 'vibrational medicine'....but then this is contradicted later by talk of 'wise western' metaphysics (ie theory) as underlying your preferred philosophy) Sure, observation CAN BE theory laden, but the more accurate observation to take heed of, with discrimination, I find, is not! Steve Johnson’s work is not primarily based on theory it seems, but experience in communicating with nature… and that is what he says it is. There is almost no theoretical basis to his beliefs or observations, given nor stated, they may as well have come out of a vacuum! That is why his work is interesting, he was a fireman in Alaska, and the flowers and nature spirits began to speak to him, a woman showed him how to make essences and it began from there… There does not seem to be any self-reflexivity in your position....yet you seem to see rigidity and subjectivity everywhere else. Hence, those that do not see the 'truth', as you claim to, are categorised as mere skeptics I’m talking about generalised ways of approaching phenomena that is not easily understood… OR, may not be typically understandable at all! In this way your argument comes across as no different than those of religious fundamentalists or rabid logical-positivists ('orthodox' or mainstream scientists).... - inflexible, dogmatic and arrogant....and utilising implicitly personal ammo to strengthen the 'case' and attempt to undermine the credibility of whoever disagrees. mirror mirror… BUT I actually don’t have AN argument here unless you think I do! My opinion is that we are all, every one of us, embedded in culture...no matter how alternative or counter-cultural, or revolutionary, or objective, or 'pure' we believe ourselves to be...and here I wholeheartedly include myself. For one to deny their experiences are influenced by their beliefs and expectations is the height of arrogance. ah yeah sure, but then we can move on, and see that our experiences are influenced by so many different myriad factors, that vary so radically at times, it is ridiculous… reductionism inherently cannot take into account these variables, nor open up to new sets of variables, because it makes mentally apprehending something too hard with all those pesky variables and elements to account into the equation! My point, mentally apprehending something is a kind of an artificially arrogant placebo effect in the first place! There are many, many other 'actualities', ideas, theories and phenomena that don't fit into the 'conventional, reductionistic scientific world view' that one may believe in, and that I personally believe in and experience, without believing or experiencing flower essences as credible and effective medicine or remedies. belief and disbelief, again is the action of the mentality which affirms or denies phenomena, is open or closed, says yes or no. Dismissing one does not equate to the dismissal of everything else that science cannot explain or rationalises away...the way you have implicitly misrepresented my argument indicates that you have either failed to understand my position, or are so desperate to defend a cherished belief you are willing to resort to deceitful rhetorical measures. it would seem you are projecting your own ontological insecurity onto the 'outside world'. nah, I just call stuff how I see it! And that is your opinion....and another case of the pot calling the kettle black! Obviously I have caused offense by putting one your sacred cows in the loch with Nessie. Its just a very obvious and “too easy” to take a position… it IS a position. I was just pointing out that I found your dismissal of flower essences a bit tawdry and hokey! And actually rather disrespectful in the context of this thread. look, Julian, I just don't believe those kinda theories, so this is an emotional personal thing about the kind of things you believe in and the kind of things you don’t, according to your beliefs and perceptions about who you are? if there is no evidence...then why do you? I don’t necessarily believe anything… especially evidence! BUT, with these pyramids, I can see what they are through the photos. They are some kind of geological structures that if they are not manmade, are perhaps the most significant or amazing geological structures that the earth has made itself, randomly, by chance! oh yeah, just like us eh? ;-) In my view, there are far, far more interesting things in this world above and beyond these kind of theories and ideas. They're just not bizarre or novel enough...they're dated, old hat, as far as I'm concerned. I see this as a form “aesthetic snobbery”, so you have evolved and grown beyond “the laura lee” show and anything that may be in nexus magazine that may have previously captivated you in wild eyed rapture ;-) Actually, all these nets and forms of media capture different things.. to categorically, call them “this kind of thing” is what skeptics do, they look into “that kind of thing” and then find ways to deny the realities of those things and then see if it is in their skeptics dictionary… I’m not saying you ARE a skeptic, I am saying, you are using their rather shoddy tactics when it suits you! so you just grab onto the most outlandish theory available? Outlandish is your subjective opinion, there is no grabbing… hmm, underwater pyramids off the coast of Japan…looks like people may have lived there a long time ago! People positing an “outlandish” geological explanations which try to be mundane and boring is so typical! …at the end of the day people will believe what they want to believe! I personally cannot see how so many right angles, turret and ledges that happen to look like human structures that human beings make can be made by nature! http://www.lauralee.com/japan/japan1.htm Seems pretty far out to me any way you look at it! I’ve never seen any example of any such thing anywhere else geologically. but that said, I don't absolutely write off the possibility...but I'd hold it's extremely unlikely. why bother holding a position, and rather just see the thing for what it is and keep an open mind! Again, the implcit characterisation of opposing views as representing a much broader, 'ontologically insecure', fallacious, reductive, '2-dimensional knowableness as the ONLY truth' kind of paradigm... is complete and utter bullshit. I’m talking about the sceptical position, which you are taking here…and seem to be attached to as you are defending it! ;-) Just because I don't subscribe to some facet of your world-view does not mean that I, nor anybody else, must necessarily subscribe to all the other beliefs and perspectives you conflate with 'not believing' in flower essences and sunken cities off the coast of Japan. seems like we have a case of pre-ontological insecurity here! Neither of us would be bothering to defend our preferred belief systems, which in actuality share more similarities than they do differences, if we really knew 'the truth', ie...were 'enlightened'. I don’t know if I believe in that we would be enlightened if we knew ‘the truth’ The fact that you, and i, care enough about our ideas and experiences to debate them here, belies both our ontological insecurites and 'dominator' egoistic tendencies. or something! :saufen2: Julian.

Wandjina, Well, this is the mental realm, it is the realm of theory, of ideas... it is not based on actualities here... what I have been atttempting to communicate is how people do use these essences and how they are deemed to work by the community of people around the world who actually do practise this field... these are actualities of human experience which have nothing to do with the kind of theory you are talking of here or your personal preference to dismiss the actuality of this field as being somehow invalid. I've read many of the texts on flower essences, on vibrational healing... it is its own field, in parts, I would consider Steve Johnson's book "The Essence of Healing", to be one of the wisest western based metaphysical texts I have ever read. Homeopathy is another field altogether... and I don't doubt its efficacy having also made homeopathic remedies myself and seeing their efficacy! Your seeming experiences with bush flower essences and bach essence do not an adequate or assessment of this very large field make! To compare an actual practise of healing and communication of plants as being bogus like the loch ness monster actually just comes off as being very non-objective, closed minded and semi-smarmiily supersticious! why is the positing of a civilisation 10's of thousands of years old absurd?... I have seen many, many indications throughout our known history which indicate such civilisations. I have yet to know of any evidence which completely disproves such civilisations... like I said, I like to keep an open mind without being emotionally reactive about such things! There isn't any evidence in fact.There are only some extremely novel theories which explain how the pyramids could possibly be geological. And there does not appear to any evidence or backing supporting material to these theories! (which is all they are) Most of the Japanese scientists who have studied these pyramids have concluded they are manmade... Why? Because you can see steps. They have found tools. They have found sculptures. These objects are actually pyramids with a certain height and width. http://www.morien-institute.org/interview4_MK.html and http://www.lightnet.co.uk/informer/civilisations/japan.htm Life appears wackier and wackier to me the more I see.... And I just often see skeptics who are always trying to think they are being objective, by actively disproving what doesn't fit into their traditional fallaciously reductionistic world view as the only reality, if that was superior(!), and actually are maintaining the closed minded realm of mental descriptiveness and assumptions of previous mere human knowledge which is innately based in a limited present time and space, which is often based on the fallacy of an ultimate reductive objectivity and crystallised 2 dimensional knowableness which IS demed to be the ONLY actuality of things work... I just see it all as a result of ontological insecurity, which must maintain the gross duality by stating YES or NO! YAY OR NAYE! but actually cannot be binarily unipotent!... then the subject/object wave collapses... and there is union! Julian.

I know a lot of people (including myself) for whom the rabbit hole only becomes deeper... And I know some people who have found a block that prevents them from going deeper... or so it seems! I've met people who just haven't stopped really going in there quite regularly since 67! Julian.

wandjina wrote: as your take on reading/communicating with plants clearly places the human observer at the centre...as the exemplary interpreter and arbiter of what plants are 'really' saying. Sure, human beings can observe and interpret the communications of plants and how they are relevent to themselves! as to your accusations of being "anthropomorphickal", I think there are facets and patterns of universal gaian intelligence that are accesible as potential by all beings... Again there is the implicit characterisation of those opposing your views as advocating a position they do not, so that you may bolster your argument by portraying those that disagree as holding ridiculous or naively simplistic views...this in not very sporting! Actually, this view that flowers are just pretty things, came from some English writer of scientific biology books, someone like Dawkins... can't remember the reference sorry! Over the years I've known many people who share your beliefs, and interestingly, their supposed 'telepathic communication' with 'plant devas' (or whatever they may call them), often reveals very different results and opinions. That is, different people may 'read' different things off the same plant based on their own subjective experience, as opposed to identifying something distinct, discrete, or objectively definable about a particular plant. the flower essence society in california have an interesting way of testing research essences, they do all the work they do to ascertain and understand the plant/flower, put it in a filing cabinent, then give the essences to their practioners all over the world (the FES is a relatively large network!) and the practitioners use the essences with clients and report back how they feel this essence is working... over years and years, another file is built on each research essence based on this research, only when it is stark or obvious, there is coherent thread of how this flower essence is working on people, of many case histories, is it released to the general public as being of a certain quality or having a certain clear effaciousness. Many flower essence companies have rather rigorous testing procedures that are similar and take years and years before a community of people accept a total picture of what a particular flower essence is and does for human does. actually, a close friend of mine (a botanist whos significant other is obsessed with flower essences), familiarised himself with Whites work, and found that White had misidentified several plants...so this practice of using latin names as a prelude to being 'guided' is patently ridiculous. Who ever said it was an infallible method! ;-) I found it interesting that Ian White admitted that this was his experience, because it would be easier and more orthodox, and he would have more potential to be taken seriously by more people if he did not say this! well, it would be interesting to see what Ian White had to say in response to this anyway... out there...too right, what a load of hooey...panspermia theory, or self-replicating 'robots'/probes, or the ancient insertion of genetic material into earthly genomes are IMO much better ideas with superior explanatory power...this new agey fluff belongs in the realm of science fiction or superstition, along with Ptolemaic astrology and 'reading' the entrails of birds. I tend to feel that human civilisations existed more than 8,000 years ago... there is quite a bit of archaelogical material that is found quite regularly... which certainly, when put together, paints something of a picture of there being civilisations previous to ours. http://www.lauralee.com/japan.htm http://www.lauralee.com/japan/japan2.htm So I really don't know... I like to keep an open mind (rather than a closed mind ;-) about such things... the history of the past as we know it may be very limited. I have studied quite a bit of the work of people who have theorised/channeled/archaeologised regarding this issue... lets say I find it all more plausable that L. Ron Hubbard's version of the history of the earth ;-) (which stands out from the crowd of other theorists in that it doesn't correlate at all with other views/theories/channeled material!) http://www.crystalinks.com/lemuria.html the 'truth' may be that there is no separation would seem to underlie the

three times a week is often too much for me... 2 times a week is good sometimes... I find once a week, really going in there, is about right... I know heaps of people who have taken something/do take something every single day for very long periods of time... over a decade often... some of them seem to thrive it, it has seemed/could be perceived to have effected some people in the long term... everyone has different chemistry and does different mileage with different psychoactive fuel! Julian.

Thelema, sure you could choose to see entities as ONLY reflections of oneself if you were deeply rooted into the narcissism of the ego as being that of the centre of all existence and life. (like that of a baby!) Wandjina, For those making flower essences the 'doctrine of signatures' is a key or beginning to understand what the flower is meaning or expressing, it is a bit like interpreting a work of art... People who make flower essences contend that flowers are just not pretty things that look good (which is pretty trite, glib and ignorant view if you ask me!), but that actually their form, color, shape and qualities of form have a certain expressiveness that is radiated to its environment AS an energetic expression... (also, it involves studying the plant and how it grows too) now, some could say the reception or receiving of this expression/energy is what causes us to see a thing as "beautifiul" Interestingly, low level DMT visions often look like very evolved flower structures, geometric colors and forms which express that outward "sexuality" and vibrancy and beauty that flowers do! In that case, we can often recognise something deeper about ourselveselves, there is something captivating about the experience of observation, which can causes us to consider life more deeply... like any good art will do. And in this observation, whether it is a DMT vision or observing a flower, our souls are fed a source of sustanance that effects how we create our lives as art! However, a lot of people I know don't worry about the doctrine of signatures and just telepathically communicate with the deva of the flower and the deva of the flower tells the person everything that is relevant and this is more aligned with my approach, although I do spend a lot of time studying the plant and flower in a kind of reductionistic way limiting myself to seeing how its physical life is carried out. Ian White said he was guided to make essences, because he could see an image of the flower in his minds eye, and a latin name of the flower... and then he was guided where to go to make that essence. There is one school of thought within one particularly out there flower essence book that contends flowers were created by an early order human beings who lived 10's of thousands of years ago (the lemurians), in order to help them learn about human life, and develope their human form! I can't see any way to prove or disprove this personally... but I do know that many plants and herbs are relevant to us and can help us, I don't see how it is too much of a logical jump that to assume that flowers and their essences can assist us, if herbs do. Its like a certain kind of scientism dominated perspective that refuses to believe that ANY herbs can be there to help as it just seems to much to be of a coincidence that this is the case (because we supposedly live in a random, chaotic world or chance and darwinian accidiental mutation!)... The "other" view of nature, is that as there is food that supplies our nutritional and dietrary requirements for us to grow and eat, that there are flowers and plants that can supply our soul and psyche with information which can help us growth, integrate and heal where necessary! Knowing this, experiencing this, I have found a very empowering thing, bringing about a much deeper trust and relation to the natural world and how it all works! then I am not separate from nature so much... and trying to compete against it, but becoming more feminine in how I am able to receive from nature.... and then it tends to give more! Absolutly! But the whole point is we can be privvy to it if we spend enough time and effort studying the plant and flower... Julian.

Wandjina, I'm not really trying to "sell" anyone the idea that flower essences work, only to show that some research has been done and in what way they are typically used, and to explain the field a bit. I don't generally believe in flower essences as remedial medicine... and are probably best used in a kind of supplemental, "oh, I think could do with the influence of that flower, its intelligence and influence at this time." And THAT, can work as a kind of preventative medicine, if one is choosing to face patterns and issues within one's own system... I have met other flower essence makers who are often quite confronted by the flower essences that they themelves make...and I have found this to be the case as well. The basic premise of flower essences, is that you are transferring the energy imprint of the flower via a conductor (water) and that is stored in alcohol (brandy usually!). The spirit of a plant is a sentient being... the flower is its creative expression which allows access to the plants intelligence. The overall sentient being of the flower is called the deva of the flower. Some people contact the Salvia deva by smoking the leaves of the plant! Contact with the ayahuasca being is also very common to people involved in that field ... BUT, we live in a culture that doesn't officially recognise the non-physical force of sentience, even in ourselves in the form of emotions and feelings, in any simple and obvious way... and doesn't really recognise the "non-physical" sentience of plants... people who are gardners and work with plants closely will often recognise that sentience in different ways! One time I gave this flower essence of 'wandering jew' I had made to a woman friend of mine who couldn't walk that day due to an illness she had, she sat down in the garden and looked at the flower, who came to her psychically and the flower healed her, or she healed herself...whatever happened, she was able to walk that day when she wasn't able to that day. I'd say another thing, unfortunately, there are very few good commercial flower essences out there! I don't know... I think $10-15 is relatively inexpensive! In Australia at least, many people may see naturopaths and the naturopaths may charge for a flower essence as well as the consulting fee... and may be limited to the Australian Bush flower essences and may not even be well versed in how to use them. I would say the best way is generally to bypass the head and use a pendulum and the practioners I know use flower essences in this way. Many practitioners will prescribe herbs with flower essences... in my opinion and whole natural medecine field is often very compromised, restricted and often dogmatic! But that doesn't mean I don't believe in the power of herbs and plants to heal... and that there are people out there who are very skilled in this field. I'm sure there are relative "quaks" in the field... BUT, I would prefer to be encouraging to the overall good egg parts of the natural medicine fraternity... rather than dismiss the whole field because of cetain tendacies of thought within it! Because allopathy in this day and age, seems very moncolur, inhumane and often very much motivated by big pharma profit motives... use of these pharmaceutical products OFTEN has cause for much harm... whereas, natural medicine, including vibrational medicine is likely to effectively be "harmless quakery" in comparison. Again, like I said, I don't consider flower essences terribly useful as a remedial medicine, and as long as people seek only seek help from nature when problems or illness arise, they will remain bound and much more limited than they need to be! The best flower essences I have had are one's I have had made myself or that others have made for the love of it... And also, there are some reasons that vibrational medicine may not work for some people... and there are even essences that help them to really kick in. I take all kinds of supplements and things of that nature... flower essences I consider the creme de le creme of anything of this sort! However, I would agree with you that the present system or distribution and commercialisation is preventing a right usage of these most very powerful medicines. In your experience, they don't work, fine, but in my experience, often the finest healers and often the most spot on human beings are people who are into flower essences... and I would say the same with psychedelics too! Its like this entity thing... I have said a few times, aftter the 678th time you are visited by a being from another dimension or you travel to their dimension you stop disbelieving... there is no option anymore. It is what it is and what it says it is. That is the simplest and obvious and most direct explanation. After experiencing and working with flower essenes for a long time and seeing many facets of how they work for oneself and other people, and how that this workingness is way beyond that of any workingness of any known supplement or plant form or pharmaceutical... there is no doubt of it in my mind and there are thousands of people around the world who have come to the same concusion and use flower essences in their lives. So that's the field... and there are some very good books on the subject. (Steve Johnson's "The Essence of Healing" being one of my favourites) Flower essences are considered by those who work with vibrational medicine, to be the most powerful medicines as they are deemd to be able to access deep inside the psyche and psychic nature of human consioucnsess. Its sad that flower essences are not used by psychiatrists to treat the mind, because that is their most powerful application. Psychiatrists work with very blunt and general tools, which really don't do the job of real healing and integration, empowering human intelligence and its living application. Rather, pharmaceutical medicine is often inhibitive and obstructive... I see flower essences and any vibrational medicine as being the medicine of the future and I'd say we are only just beginning to be evolved enough to begin to learn to adequately use them. Julian.

Edward Bach (who basically "invented" flower essences), said that he didn't believe in empirical evidence suggesting that flower essences "worked", as he said it was a self evident practice with results that were also evident. However, the flower essence society (based in California, U.S.A.) have been doing many "empirical" studies of flower essences... using EEG and over relatively primitive devices that measures people's responses and reactions. http://www.flowersociety.org/scientific.htm also http://www.ijhc.org/FreeJournal/Journal/06...es/Cram-I-1.asp The Bush Flower essences, made by Australian Ian White, are generally considered to be the most powerful range in the world today, generally being considered more "modern" than Bach's essences. Although some would say they have sold out and compromised the essences in the last few years and I would have to concur with that! Ian White makes some "scientific" claims with some of his esssences, he says that Sydney doctors use certain essences to treat female infertility and diabetes with very high success rates. there is an interview with him here: http://www.healingquest.tv/BushMedicineTrans.html “We have a number of hospitals working with the essences, whether it’s the Woman Essence for women going into labor or gynecological problems. For example, it’s used as an alternative to hormone replacement therapy in hospitals in Brazil and Switzerland." I've done the level I bush flower essence course many years ago, and I felt the teacher was really reductionistic! Always referencing essences to the various aspects of the endocrine system, and not addressing much else! I also remember them saying that the flower essence "slender rice flower" (as I recall) was being used in Brazilian hospitals after surgery, which caused the surgeons knife cuts to heal in half the time. (ah, but those Brazilians are so kooky that heaps of them run their cars on 100% ethanol! ) One problem, according to flower essence makers is in the U.S., you are not even allowed by the FDA to say that flower essences have any effect on the physical body! However, flower essences are deemed by vibrational healers to be a form of vibrational healing which is very "refined", and is mostly used to treat mental, emotional and psychic levels of being, which are deemed to be the causative factors in creating illness... So, some people like myself, make and take essences because they are the most effective supplements that one can find! They are very fast and go very deep in their action! I only wish they were more available in this country! (and they're cheap too... you can buy a flower essence bottle that lasts up to a month for $10-15) Whenever I take something, whether it be herbs, a supplement or a pharmaceutical for the first time, I really feel it going through my system for the first time, then the second and third ingestion is not felt so clearly... When I take flower essences for the first time I often literally "trip" on the movement of energy it gives me which expands awareness! People have accused me of putting LSD in their flower essences! Any good flower essence will often give you a literal zing and high powered flash that will last for many hours... The first time, I took the bush flower essence "bluebell" 8 years ago, the actual movment of energy, profound stirring in my heart was strong enough that I called a girl I hadn't been in contact with for some time, who at that time, was my primary experience of romantic love! Anyone care for a HCAB? (Heart Chakra Air Bag) Julian. p.s. also Richard Gerber's book "Vibrational Medicine" is the classic text which explains the "theory" behind vibrational medicine such as homeopathy and flower essences. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/187918158...5Fencoding=UTF8