TIHKAL

so we have had a pretty good discussion on this cacti here on tribes, check out the link... http://tribes.tribe.net/ethnobotany/thread...80-c23a4d342756 and feel free to join us its a good group of folks. here is the links to sasha and earl discussion on the cardon at the sacred elixers conferance. they are pretty great. http://www.plantconsciousness.com/medi...1.mp3 http://www.plantconsciousness.com/medi...2.mp3 now i didnt hear any negatives about this from shulgin thats why i was surprised to hear from apothocary that he had heard differant. if you have any links or could relay the info it would be much appriciated and we would really like to here it on the ethnobotnay tribe. some good links for obtaining cardon... www.ethnogens.com/saguaro.html good god the freaking jack pot here...you know i am getting pretty good at finding shit online... www.dfranch.com/source/sag...forsale.php www.dfranch.com/source/sag...forsale.php www.ethnobotany-australia.net/php....php jesus and even ebay lol!!!! cgi.ebay.com/CARDON-MEXI...cmdZViewItem http://www.getnet.net/~richarde/cactusstor...atalog.htm#pL22 and some more links... www.azarius.net/news.php www.plantconsciousness.com/sacr...s.htm is that it... uh yeah... ok so thats what we have on cardon... i hope that pleases the natives... this might very well be the largest entheogen in the world... i think i am in love...

I think the gold is what they use and daime. Thanks!

Not to long ago SWIM found a wonderful link on this site to people discussing the numerous types of caapi strains that where being grown in Oz. SWIM is writing a book on changa ATM and is interested in the var, and cultivates and strains of caapi that have made it into circulation in OZ. I dont want any one to incriminate themselves but I am interested in what strains of caapi are being grown. I have hear of a few interesting ones that are not the typical colored varieties... jaguar mountain and green dragon... any one know about these strains and qualitative differences? because of Oz's legal status on caapi and harmals Oz seems to be in a unique position, encouraging people to focus on the vine in a way thats not happening else where due to its easier availability. this is fascinating to me. So yah I was wondering if any one could give m a list of strains?

Wow... that is wild. So you can buy Caapi and grow it... but you just cant harvest it and use it. interesting.

Damn its really good to see you too brother! really good! Celio and black as well as some brazilian probably santo daime strains eh? Thanks man!

How long or when did caapi become illegal in Oz? how did that come to pass?

http://changaya.blogspot.com/

glad you like it... Its been a fun project.

so i got a neat email from trout today he pointed out to me that... "One of the most amazing things I encountered while in Oz was people taking dried caapi leaf and making it into a 30-50% smoking blend with Acacia resin (using alcohol or something to get it to stick to the leaf) The results were somewhere in between smoked acacia and oral ayahuasca in effects and duration. Much more clear than oral ayahuasca athough." you guys have been holding out on the rest of us havent you? this sounds great! what i am wondering is whether hes talking about is acacia resin is this a natural product of a specific acacia like sap or gum or is he talking about and extracted resin. this is really interesting to me! when is some one going to send me some acaica resin??!!!

ironically... changa comes from the Swahili language word for "mix"... indeed it is a mix of spice, caapi and other herbs... it is a smoking herb mix or changa. in zambia bush babys small fuzzy animals with big eyes are also called changas. if this has anything to do with the smoking mix i have no idea... im just a curious one when it comes to etymology...

ironically... changa comes from the Swahili language word for "mix"... indeed it is a mix of spice, caapi and other herbs... it is a smoking herb mix or changa. in zambia bush babys small fuzzy animals with big eyes are also called changas. if this has anything to do with the smoking mix i have no idea... im just a curious one when it comes to etymology...

i know... http://deoxy.org/wiki/Changa still just curious what it means and where the word comes from... any one really know?

still wondering where the name changa comes from, and what it means...

OK quick question to those who may know... WHAT exactly does changa mean? and where did the term originate? you will have to pardon a curious american.

so this is what i have been up to for the last five years. i have been takeing a little break. you have to make a four year commitment to the dance and i ended mine a few years ago. but i have to say its an amazing experince one i have learned alot from and grown and healing from. this was taken from miguels site http://www.sacharuna.com/english/longdance.htm check it out! The Long Dance ceremony is brought to us by Beautiful Painted Arrow (Joseph Rael) Native American Medicine man, Visionary, Mystic and author from the Souther Ute and Picuri Pueblo Native Nations. Before the dance all dancers paint a banner where they materialize their pourpose for the dance: What it is they want to leave behind in their lives, what they want to call into their lives and what their wishes are for others and the world at large. Traditionally we dance all night around a fire within a circle enclosure; half the night in one direction, the other in the opposite direction, working the spirals of energy to first go deep within where matter implodes and we are purified of that which we wish to leave behind in our lives, and then when we change to the upward spiral, we send forth prayers and blessings to the universe and also receive them, as our wishes for the future are potentiated and realized through the energy we set in motion through our dance steps. The earth we take out from the fire pit in the middle is placed in front of the entrance on the eastern side of the circle enclosure, and becomes the earth altar, where we place offerings, flowers, cornmeal and candles, and where dancers can go pray anytime during the dance. We dance from sun down to sunrise mostly without stopping. Each dancer is welcome to play instruments while they move around the fire in one or another direction. The San Pedro Long Dance Ceremony is a variation created by Miguel A. Kavlin, Bolivian Shaman and apprentice to Beautiful Painted Arrow, who named him the caretaker and chief of the Bolivian Sun-moon Dance which is being danced for eight years now.. This variation was inspired by his work with the magical and sacred cactus of the Andes, San Pedro (achuma). Before the San Pedro Long Dance Ceremony we prepare a burnt-offering ceremony in the Andean tradition, to propitiate the Great Spirit, the Grandfathers and Grandmothers of the four directions, All Enlightened Beings, The Mountain Guardians (Achachilas), Spirits of Sacred Places (Huacas), Ancestors (awichas), Mother earth and local guardians in order to obtain their permission and help in conducting the dance. Around the fire we place a six-pointed star, and in each point of the star we place offerings of food, flowers and spirits for the beings in each of the six worlds: the world of the Gods, demi-Gods, Humans, animals, hungry ghosts and demons, that they too may derive benefit from our efforts, and their suffering be eased. That is, we dance and work through our obstacles, obscurations and confusions in order to benefit ourselves and all of beingness. In the center is the fire where all is one and all pollution and contamination is consumed and transformed, and wherefrom blessings ensue to guide us towards the integration of our manifold dislocated and uncoordinated energies into the one heart. When they want or need dancers kneel in front of the fire to pray and offer cedar or cornmeal or coca leaves. In the San Pedro Long Dance Ceremony participants in the dance consume an amount of the sacerd cactus and enter the healing and cleansing process which it brings along. An incredible amount of work is done in one night, where with everystep we set energy in motion and are able to transcend obstascles carried within, sometimes for entire lifetimes. Some of the participants enter into pastlife experiences in order to free themselves from their naegative charge in the present. One dramatic example is of two ladies who during one dance both entered into a state of great suffering and wailing, breathing very fast. This lasted for a long time until they where able to relax and rest in peace. As they told us afterwatds, they where seeing a life where they where both burnt unjustly at the stake, accused of witchcraftŠsubsequently they entered a state where they saw themselves dying and giving birth simultaneously. It was a rebirthing experience that freed them from the past and allowed them a free start in this life. Another lady completely lost her sense of self into a seeming chaos, only to find herself back in full consciousness, only this time in onneness with the Great Spirit, feeling the perfection of it all and herself in harmony with all of creation. It is through the sacred songs that Miguel was taught, both by beautiful painted Arrow as well as his amazonian techer, Don Agustin Rivas vazques, and others directly by the spirits, that all these processes are kept within safe bounds and the entire process carried out without any harm to participants. No matter how intense the process during the ceremony is, by the time we come around to finishing the ceremony, everybody is safely brought back to themselves, only free of some of their burdens, full of insight and blessings, and ready to enter back into their lives with renewed energy, vision and insight. To do so the shaman blesses each dancer with the sacred smoke at key places in their bodies, helping to expell anr remaining negativities attached to the dancers, blessings the energy pathways of the body, and closing the chackras so that dancers can safely reenter the world. We finally close the ceremony with a burnt offering ceremony giving thanks to all the beings who participated with us in the dance and helped us to send out and bring in the blessings so that all of beingness may be blessed by the efforts of the participants and our lives be beautiful and honorable from here on! Once a year Miguel tours Europe, Canada and the US, and also takes people on journeys through the Bolivian and Peruvian Andes and Amazon. For more info on the San Pedro Long Dance and other rituals and Sacred Journeys conducted by Miguel Kavlin, please visit http://www.sacharuna.com Or e-mail at: [email protected] if you ask him i am sure he would be willing to come and do some work shops... he also has an shamanic intensive with ayahuasca and the sanpedro long dance as well as the sun moon dance in bolivia twice a year its well worth it.

hi this is an old post... wow... the long dance ceremony and the sanpedro long dance ceremony are amazing... i recomend them emensely... but not with miguel... maybe if he ever has any students that are approved to do the ceremony would it be good... but personally what i learned from doing the sanpedro long dance over the years is that its a special ceremony that came from spirit to the people through the process of having respectfull relationships with the land and sky and with the plant itself. some times i really most deeply feel that cultivating this relationship your self is far more important that doing a ceremony like this. new ceremonies that are as effective and powerfull as those of other traditions of long standing can come to any one who has this repsectfull relationship, if they are the one to bring it to others. but the long dance its self came from the visions of a man to share with other people out side of his tribe... and with miguel the sanpedro long dance came out of a vision he had to combine his work with plant teachers with the long dance. whats interesting is that we can seek a vision for others, and through relationship with the land and sky we can co-create new ceremonies... just like these men did... just as its allways been done... and we can do so in ways that authenticly fullfill the needs of our community, which is what its allways been about. working with a plant teacher like sanpedro to accomplish this is a highly effective way of seeking a vision for the benfit of your community.

Reclaiming Sacred Waters/ Re-Membering Sacred Life: A Journey with Ysabel Chinguel through Northern Peru and Southern Ecuador http://utah.tribe.net/event/Reclaiming-Sac...56-afd0882ca840 http://people.tribe.net/46520917-9c7d-4707-8c4b-3fda92288094 Date & Time: Monday, June 25, 2007 - Wednesday, July 4, 2007 6:00 PM June 25th-July 4th, 2007 $1195.00 (all inclusive) For registration details please contact: Bonnie Glass-Coffin [email protected] For 25 years Ysabel Chinguel has been teaching her patients that real living begins when we remember ourselves as sacred and when we reach out to others in love. This process is nothing less than a re-birth and a commingling of ourselves with the sacred waters of the Mother who brings new life to all. This June-July, Ysabel will lead a small group of pilgrims on a very special journey of personal and planetary healing in northern Peru and southern Ecuador, where there is urgent need to heal the water and the land as we re-member who we are. Sharing their teachings and insights together with master teacher and healer doña Ysabel are Bonnie Glass-Coffin, an anthropologist who began working with Ysabel 18 years ago, Rainer Bussmann, an ethno-botanist and medicinal plant expert who is intimately familiar with these sacred landscapes and Douglas Sharon, whose work with Peruvian curanderos extends back more than 40 years. The trip will be arduous, including mountain travel on rugged roads, overland hikes to sacred lagoons, apus, and ancient archaeological sites rarely visited by outsiders. Accommodations will be very basic and group size will necessarily be limited because of the logistical difficulties of reaching some of the most remote areas we’ll visit in our chartered bus or 4x4 pickup trucks. If you feel called to participate, we encourage you to consider being part of this very urgent work. Day 1: June 25 Chiclayo, Peru Evening mesada with Ysabel to prepare for our journey Day 2: June 26 Chiclayo to Macará, Ecuador Stops in Chulucanas and San Lorenzo reservoir to discuss impacts of Rio Blanco mining project on watersheds and livelihoods (L/D) Day 3: June 27 Macará-Vilcabamba. Visit to shrine of the Virgen del Cisne, guardian of the waters, lunch in Loja and transfer to beautiful eco-lodge in Vilcabamba, Ecuador (B/L/D) Day 4: June 28 Vilcabamba. Morning teachings with Bussmann, Sharon, and Glass-Coffin. Afternoon rest. Evening mesa with Ysabel (B/ ceremonial “dieta”) Day 5: June 29 Vilcabamba. Late morning pilgrimage to confluence of two rivers (tinku) for spiritual purification ceremony (pasca). Evening free to explore (L/D) Day 6: June 30 Vilcabamba-Zumba Travel most spectacular road in all of Ecuador with ceremonial work at highest apu in Southern Ecuador. (B/L/D) Day 7: July 1 Zumba-Lagunas Negras-Amaluza Ceremonial work in most remote corner of Ecuador/Peru border to honor and bathe in highland lagoons, build apacheta and create despachos to heal land to be affected by Rio Blanco mining operations, and hold a healing mesa to protect and bless the land. Rest in Amaluza (B/ceremonial “dieta”) Day 8: July 2 Amaluza-Jimbura, Ecuador to Ayabaca, Peru. Cross the border into Peru at an almost unknown border checkpoint (only recently opened) and do ceremonial work all along the way to Ayabaca, Peru, the area most affected by Rio Blanco mining operations. Rest in Ayabaca (L/D in the field) Day 9: July 3 Ayabaca. Ceremonial work at the ruins at Aypate (important archaeological ruins known as the Machu Picchu of the north) and the most sacred lagoons in all of Ayabaca province. Rest in Ayabaca (B/D) Day 10: July 4 Ayabaca-Chiclayo. Travel to Chiclayo with possible stop at venerated Cruz del Chalpon near Motupe for pilgrimage/ceremonial work. Farewell mid-day meal. Transfers to transport of your choice (or you may choose to remain in Chiclayo and continue your work with Ysabel). End of services Who's Going?

i am sorry that i missed the discussion.... for those that are interested in specific discussions about the mesa tradition as well as vegetalismo ie the ayahuasca meztiso tradition as well... check out... http://tribes.tribe.net/vegetalismo?_click...802d77a51a13%5D lots of great information there... i think that its super inmrtant that the tradition is understood by the people working iwth sanpedro... and its perfect that it spread through out aus. becasue it really seems that sanpedro loves it there!

ummmm bactieria and little microscopic organisms exist... they invented this thing called the micro scope... alooooooong time ago and proved it... did you know that you can get tetnus!!! fuck you all up in a minute... just fucking with you but you can get some serious shit from a puncture wound... my answer to nto so serious puncture wounds so they dont get worse is open them up a bit more... i got a nasty bridge poke hurt really bad, had some deep internal bleeding going on... just sliced it open and the pain went away, sure it hurt still but not as bad... just me... thats what i do if i feel its really fucked...

do they have a web page?

i would be interested as well....

they seem to bloom in areas where its nice and warm... cnetral to northern california seems to be the perfect temp for nice blooms on the west coast of where i live... but i am so far south i got no chance lol... unless i get a real nice warm green house... must be nice man....

man i have been trying to figure out how to get mine to bloom any tips? i live in a cold wet place... i have heard adding bone meal and blood meal will help them bloom...