MotherShabubu

According to Heimia salicifolia: a phytochemical and phytopharmacologic review (PDF link): However, the studies referred to are all PNS, so maybe the action is specific to the subtypes of muscarinic receptor found in the CNS (though I'm not sure if the different subtypes differ in binding or just distribution).They also state that after administering vertine: Which, if I'm reading it right is suggesting that rather than acting directly on the anticholinergic system it is having another effect that leads to an anticholinergic effect. Does anyone know what the distribution of nicotinic receptors is? Wikipedia has some OK info on the distribution of the subtypes of muscarinic type receptor but none on nicotinic type, there isn't even any information on nicotinic receptor subtypes. Do nicotinic type receptors occur in the CNS? Also, that paper challenges generally the idea the H. Salicifolia is hallucinogenic and in particular that verdine is the active (they suggest reported effects may be due to the alcoholic preparations used in combination with its sedative effects). One of the authors took 310mg of vertine (equivalent to 36-156 g of dry aerial parts of H. salicifolia), and also lythrine, and reports no activity, apart from cardiovascular changes and a reduction in dental pain.

I see you got your priorities straight Yeah, looking at their drug laws, maybe not Sweden. They've got a screwed up zero-tolerance thing going there. Apparently like 90% of the population agree with their drug laws, if that is vaguely true then at least that's something. Slightly harder to object to stupid laws that are at least in line with public opinion. And they seem like they are more attuned to the massive failures of their drug policy than here. There seems to perhaps be more of a possibility of rational debate rather than just kneejerk reactions. And they get to elect there officials so if enough freaks move there...

Yeah, that's the worst bit: the attempts to supress any public and even parliamentary debate on the issues. Both in terms of the content of the bill, suppressing journalists and what not, and in the way it has been brought in. The government slamming Stanhope for releasing the bill publically, and now apparently cutting him out of the process (link). And trying to restrict the time for parliamentary debate (I notice labour today saying they weren't even given copies of the IR legislation they are suppossed to debate). Now they're rushing through parts of it because of a "specific terrorist threat" (link). Apparently parts related to "the description of a terrorist act" to "allow authorities to deal with the threat", whatever exactly that entails. Presumably allowing stronger action with more tentative evidence where normal laws would not allow such actions. And then the responses from labour haven't always been fantastically encouraging. From the support for the bill by the state labour premiers to some lacklustre responses from Beazley et al. As to what to do, I don't know, immigrate to Sweden maybe. Or, they say if you can't beat em, join em. So think I'll be buying a brown shirt soon

Actually I havn't read much Popper, mainly secondary. In fact his "Darwinism as a metaphysical research programme" (think that might be a selection from a greater work) one of the only bits of primary Popper I read. So I'm not neccesarily to up on how that side fits into his greater view. But Popper tends to be rather simplified in traditional presentations, so theat side often underemphasisied. Like the pretty simplistic Popperian\Positivist view- that science just is refutable empirical hypotheses- you get in some 1st year science classes (well, at least in Psychology (@UNSW) which is where I've personally come across it, but seems common in others). Yeah HPS@UNSW, tho "mythic cultures" a pretty dodgy term, they did really exist, so it seems pretty natural. So you experienced Dr J too?

In fact, the derision of metaphysics is more a positivistic thing. Popper himself notes that evolution is NOT falsifiable. Accoridng to his philosophy, evolution is a "metaphysical research programme". While not itself falsifiable it is a set of beliefs that generates various testable hypotheses. This probably does not go far enough in acknowledging the role of metaphysical frameworks and rational arguments in science but it certainly goes beyond the positivistic view (which came out of earlier views such as Mach's sensationalism) that metaphysics=non-science(=nonsense)=bad.

Is there neccesarily a paradox? What does your spirituality consist of? Is it a set of facts about the way the world works? If not then it has no issue with science. Mythopoeic cultures, in their explanations of natural phenomena, did not seem to hold the same epistemological standards as in Western philosophy. In these cultures a multiplicity of conflicting explanations of a single natural phenomena are propogated without any apparent concern to their conflict. Surely if you want to know, from various astronomical happenings, when to plant your crops then having two conflicting stories about what certain celestial occurences signify is not going to help, but if these stories do not serve to inform you of the way the world works then... Perhaps much of your spirituality is likewise not based in facts about the world in the way of science, and so is not to be judged in terms of strict logical coherence. Where your spirituality does involve actual facts about the world I guess I'd have to say that a conflict with science is best avoided as I think science is our best means of understanding the world. But one should not be limited by current science, our understanding of many areas involved with spirituality is sorely lacking but perhaps future scientific study will help bridge the gap. As Brian Cantwell Smith (a cognitive scientist) suggests, science has not got got very far uniting matter and mattering. Nor should one be taken in by restrictive, dogmatic philosophies of science (or more scientism). I just mean that an open objective endeavour to understand the world through rational argument and empirical observation\experimentation is (IMHO) the best route to knowledge of the world, so if that is what you seek then you are perhaps best not to shun science. But, there is possibly more to the world (though I find little to recommend such mysiticism), and certainly more to life than you will get through such an endeavour and perhaps that is where your spirituality lies.

Was in tobacconist today buying Gudang Garams (kretek, but definitely not mild). Asked him about Sampoerna's. He said they'd been "discontinued" and was down to last two packs. So looks like you might not have much luck getting them in tobacconists (not above the counter anyways). Used to be a few places where you could get em under the counter (before the legal, properly marked versions were around so much and before big crackdowns). Might still find Sampoerna that way. Maybe in China town, or I think I heard Bankstown good. Maybe Paramatta as Apoth suggested. Somewhere with a big Indonesian population probably good. Might have something to do with Philip Morris buying 40% of Sampoerna earlier this year, maybe we'll see Malboro Kretek here soon.