eccles

Short Version of Rant: I N A P P R O P R I A T E A N D O F F E N S I V E Long Version: I can't believe what I have been reading. I had always thought that I was the person probably the most guilty of overreaction and completely and unjustifiably out of proportion reactions (perhaps it is not so evident on public forums as I often edit them before people can read them). However I find that I am a rank amateur. For such responses to come from someone who is a moderator of this board and who thus should be setting a good example is just completely beyond belief. Oh and I just remembered... the one time that I have had the biggest shit fight I have ever had on a board it was with Darklight. Hmmm food for thought. I am not even going to comment on the original post or the reply, except to say that it should have been totally obvious that it was simply a request for help in trying a new method of cultivation from someone who obviously has more experience than the asker. I don't care what you say to justify your reaction, (yeah he really sounds like he wants to commit industrial espionage doesn't he... just like everyone else on this board who asks for tips on how to grow sacred plants) It was far *far* ruder and more offensive than anything he said, if only for the fact that you assumed all the things you did about him without even giving him a chance. This is not a board populated by industrial theives but by plant enthusiasts, and if you are going to project your own fears onto honest people then you should not be held up as an example of how to behave on this board by holding a position as moderator. People do not like to be treated like this, and if you are going to do so then he deserves an apology not only from you, but also from Torsten who has seen fit to make you a moderator.

Hi Guys!! There is an ethnobotany mini 'conference' being organised for Feb 15 in Sydney... It'd be great if as many people as possible could make it - it should be a fun day Hope to see you all there!!! http://www.ethnobotany-australia.net/conference.html http://www.ethnobotany-australia.net/phpBB2/

I have made a flyer for the meet, and it is here: http://www.ethnobotany-australia.net/EB_Meet.pdf Please print it out and pass it on to anyone who you think might be interested. cheers

I was asked to post this here... "Well it looks like it's coming together, and time to announce here that Trout of Entheogen Review and Trouts Notes fame will be visiting the country in january, for only a short time. Along with a range of local and interstate panellists and speakers, Trout will be a guest at the Intra Cortex happening/space as part of the Exodus festival. At Bald Rock Bush retreat, between Tenterfield and Stanthorpe on the NE NSW - SE Qld border., Jan 12-19, 2003. Granite country, 800m above sea level, just next door to the second biggest monolith in Aust (the Sth hemisphere?), Bald Rock, which is also a pretty black rock after recent fires. Intra Cortex does not have tickets of it's own, but is a free space within the festival site, entry to the festival required. Current details (and tickets) of the Exodus festival can be found at http://www.happypeopleproductions.com/exodus/ current details for the Intra Cortex space can be found at http://mulga.yage.net/intra_cortex/ (see the pdf flyers) More news, details to come re guests, speakers and events, you'll hear about it here. There will be a range of spaces for debate, discussion and participation, it's a week long festival but we have three main days of panels in that. Not much notice for some folks with a bit of a way to travel, but at least it's holiday time eh!"

that's a shame!! Hopefully someone will be able to help you out I was hoping you could come down with some plants to sell too! good luck

well here's hoping twould be good to see you again!

that's excellent guys Hopefully it will be a really good day. There will be some more talks added to the list soon (I updated the page this morning too, so check it again, it will keep getting updated The 15th is a Saturday. Hopefully there will be people off here and EA coming, and hopefully some will bring friends... and me and the other two organisers will bring some friends too... I think Julian will be there giving a talk, in addition to the stuff listed (one or two other people lined up but I need confirmation first) - and there are still others who I have yet to ask (Like Torsten - how about it?) I'd love it if Reville was able to come, esp if he wanted to talk, but as he is in WA it might be a bit much to ask I think... There will be food provided as well... all in all we are hoping it will be a fun day for all, and the more the merrier No idea on numbers yet... perhaps we should try to pre-sell some tickets just to get an idea of the interest... but I personally like the idea of people just rocking up... Please make any and all suggestions you feel like And if anyone wants more info, or would like to talk, please email me at [email protected]

right on everyone (heheh Reville - your posts are always wonderful I hope everyone has a fantastic time - you guys have already said it all I think... have a great one

heheh cactus raitha hey consume with a HOT curry...

oh! and another thing - if they ARE paying like $40 per cactus (which they are because I do know their source) - WHY are they? that's just ridiculous! Ray has piles of the stuff up in his nimbin shop... for $40 a foot.. They obviously have a much better source up there - they probably grow it somewhere themselves I'd imagine (and if they don't then that's just silly)... why can't they root some cuttings up there and send them down to sydney? It just beggars beleif. maybe the sydney store is not run that well... Also I noticed they had Arizona's phone number on their wall... which means that they *should* be able to get say a pachanoi for around $25 for a foot - rooted plant (wich I still think is over priced - esp since they they *undermeasure* a foot, and then add on some, and then calculate it and then add some onto THAT... they are the dodgiest people ever and I am glad that John sold the land so they had to close down... I wouldn't be surprised if that wasn't a motivating factor)... but... yeah... I agree that they are probably getting them for like $40 and then whacking on 100%, but WHY are they paying that much??? (why do I end up ranting about things when I make posts immediately after I get up in the morning?)

Torsten: I don't think I am being hypocritical at all... I have never sold a cactus in my life - only given them away as rooted cuttings... However I realise that if *no-one* sold them then things would sort of grind to a halt. We need retailers (like yourself, adrian, gomaos and mark&allan) to keep things going. However I would prefer to see people buy these things from people like gomaos - than give the profits to someone who has the roof of his house shaped like a psilocybe mushroom... But I do agree - they are no medicine garden at least

nabraxas: a questions section?? what do you mean? that I should ask questions about that stuff? I meant that I would have liked/have been happy to give a talk about chemistry/pharmacology if I had been asked. But I guess no-one wanted that type of thing. I wonder why? too scientific?

my mistake if anyone does manage to source some of this in bulk, and wants to... redistribute some of it to their fellows who also have dirty, filthy CDs to clean, then please email me at [email protected]

well after all these intelligent, thoughtful and moderate posts I withdraw my encouragement to boycott HHH - as long as people take these posts on board Yep, I realise that those cacti can all be considered pedro... that's not a prob (hehe san pedro=saint peter is, after all, the guy that 'guards' the gates of heaven - so the name is apt). and yes it was a potted plant - I doubt you'd see cuttings sold in a place like that in sydney. It just upsets me because I don't believe in selling cacti. I can't even bring myself to eat them. as reville (and just about everyone I have ever spoken to who grows them) said - you grow far too attatched to them. It doesn't even NEED to be illegal to grow them - since most people who do find that eating them is just out of the question. (most of these poeple I assume though have injested tem at some point or another). Perhaps it is their way of exerting their control over us to ensure evolutionary survivial But even when you don't eat them, I am sure they protect you to some extent. they ARE powerful plants. And I guess that is a reason I don't believe in selling them - and CERTAINLY don't believe in making a profit from them... they are power. not something to be bought or sold. they must be sought out. And as such it may not matter to the person who finds them what they pay. But yeah, I am rambling now - don't boycott them - but just let them know you do not agree with what they are doing. they are not that unlike us... they will probably be sensitive to what you say. and yeah man - read mesqalero's post until you get what he is saying, dig?

just remember that the finest/thickest ones are made for vacuum filtration... and unless you are going to do that you will be waiting all day for it to go through (if it ever does). This may not be so bad if you have just a solvent/crystal mixture, but... heheh good luck

but remember - the junkies and travellers out to make a quick buck are not nearly as bad as the proprietor of a cerain shop up there, that I won't name. To change the subject completely, who knew that Happy High Herbs in sydney sells scops as san pedro? (and will then argue with you that it IS a pachanoi... they don't know shit) and that they charge $80 for a 6-8 inch specimen? and then when you ask them why they are trying to rip people off like that (people who may not know what these things SHOULD cost) they just shrug and give an embarrased grin and say 'because people pay it'... BOYCOTT HAPPY HIGH HERBS. (and if Arizona Cactus Nursery hadn't just closed down I'd say the same about them)

hmmm maybe I will try to make it down there for that... So how is it that you managed to get listed as a 'special' guest Torsten when all the others are just regular speakers heheh so I guess htey don't want anyone to give a talk on the chemistry/pharmacology of anything then! pfft! typical - leave out the useful stuff...

Auxin, why did you list 1,4-dihydroxybutane as an additional (correct me if I am wrong) precursor to 1,4,-butanediol... surely they are exactly the same compound?

don't use the web based one! just connect to irc.webmaster.com using mIRC or bitchX or whatever the hell you use and /join #shaman-australis

GOOD LUCK Torsten I am sure it will go swimmingly. upgrading to a later/better version of UBB? Not, (god forbid) the one that supports avatars? hehehe (if anyone is wondering what the hell I am on about - do a search and you will find a long thread about the pros and cons of avatars... heheh amazing how some people get worked up over concepts like that!)

jesus fucking christ. well... what else can I say. I wish people were nicer to each other.

MSDS's are for our own safety (like the NSW Police Force)... didn't you know that every single organic compound is carcinogenic, tetratogenic, and an irritant??? But seriously, it should have been clear that I meant that anything whose function is to allow the skin to become permeable to anything placed on it, and to allow those things to be absorbed straight into the blood stream, is a *dangerous* thing, when you consider some of the utter toxic crap that is passed off as drugs these days. I am not in a position to know if more or less would be absorbed than if it was snorted, but I imagine that more would be. We have all kinds of barriers to help protect us against malevolant things that we may encounter, and bypassing these systems cannot be a great idea when you consider all the impurities in street drugs. You can get speed (for example) that is ORANGY-RED, that will have iodine, and phosphorous in it, as well as many iodinated and phosphorylated methamphetamine derivatives, as well as other crap I would imagine - and who knows what these things would do to you??? In principle one of them could be capable of destroying your nervous system, or *anything*. And then there is the matter of what it was cut with. I shudder at the idea of using DMSO with these things, just as I shudder at the idea of injecting them. People shouldn't use poor quality drugs, but if they do, they should use a route of absorbtion that is most likely to cut out as much bad shit as possible - and routes that absorb straight into the blood-stream is not one of them. I am merely urging caution, and yet you seem to be telling people that caution is a bad thing, and to go ahead and stuff these things into their bodies by the fastest route, bypassing all protective mechanisms, and leaving god knows what residues in their tissues (that will probably cause cancer in the long term) and introduce possibly dangerous compounds into their bloodstream and brain. And for what? in the name of a good time? You can't just say that BECAUSE street drugs are impure then that is just how they are and that shouldn't stop us from using such methods to administer them. That because it is not a medical setting you should throw all caution to the wind, and make it dangerous. That is half the reason these things cause so many problems. Do not forget that many people could read this who are not as experienced or educated as you are, and may take your word as gospel. Telling them that it is ok to use dangerous routes of ingestion for drugs since there is nothing we can do about it is not a very responsible thing to do. I will however accept that this is not the case if you can show me that injesting a drug orally carries with it equal potential for damage than DMSO absorbtion, however I just don't see how it could. Caution Torsten - that is all I ask - don't encourage lack of caution when there is no reason to - not where peoples health is concerned. That said I have spent the entire of the week just past studying chemistry ALL DAY, not using impure methamphetamine... so by now I might just be a bit overcautious... This is not a license for you to disregard my points though, I think they still must be addressed... [This message has been edited by eccles (edited 17 November 2002).]

in fact, I'd go so far as to say that in just about any recreational drug use setting, you could not possibly come up to scratch with the cleanliness and purity that would be required. And even if you did the people who copied you would not. Encouraging DMSO use is a very dangerous and silly thing to do, because although some of us would do it right, if it became popular I can see lots of people getting sick, overdosing or at least causing some kind of cumulative long term damage (due to impurities).

well that's incredible... as if people would buy that crap. (BUT THEY DO HAHAH) I am aware that stuff like that is around (and is even VERY common) - ie 1:7-10 meth:glucose (if you are lucky)... But I would never use anything other than these lovely, large, translucent crystals... er... did I say these? I meant those. Using DMSO to aid the absorbtion of recreational drugs is potentially very dangerous and I would *not* recommend it at all. Unless, as Auxin said, you have thoroughly cleaned the skin first, but I would also add that you must have almost 100% pure substance (and any impurities must be harmless). But anything is better than a nasal route. I recommend obtaining shiny, clear crystals of pure meth, and dissolving a very small quantity up in some (very small volume - like 2ml) distilled water, and then either drinking that (and rinsing and drinking again), OR filling a clean syringe with it, and squirting it into your mouth (or, if you MUST, up your nose...). Come to think of it, some people inject drugs into their veins... DMSO couldn't possibly be any worse than that... oh yeah it could - because at least you'd only get the water solubles going in with the injection route (which I also don't recommend). [This message has been edited by eccles (edited 16 November 2002).]

ok... 1/ it is not hard to forge an email header... when you login to a SMTP server you can tell it anything you like to put as the 'from' address (your email client just puts whatever you have in your 'from' field in the setup). 2/ you can usually find out the hostname of a host that you have the IP address for by typing, eg: nslookup 203.41.44.20 at the comand line (this works for windows (in DOS) as well as Linux/Unix (you can also use 'dig' in Unix/Linux). 3/ fuck norton off and get PC-Cillin - it is pretty good and they have frequent updates. http://www.antivirus.com - but that is a matter of personal preference. Be sure to download the latest pattern file and stick it in C:program filestrend micropc cillin or whatever it is... (unzip first but yeah - what the other guys said is all probably true... it may or may not be on your machine, but maybe some of these points have addressed your original questions. P.S. whilst on the topic - find and download a program called BHO cop... it is good... (search in google). basically it looks for bits of code that get inserted as modules into internet explorer that do all kinds of things, including popping up ad windoes when you are not even at a site that has that type of shit on it... but yeah, have fun