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Is Ayahuasca use becoming more religious?

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#1 whitewind

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 06:11 AM

In recent times, we have seen a profound change in the attitudes and beliefs in Ayahuasca users. From being an obscure shamanic experience the use of ayahuasca has become more widespread, and with it has come the influence of western culture and, in particluar, the religious aspect.

At first, it was just a couple of christian groups tieing the vegetable experience to their beliefs, then much more publicly, scientists wrote about the visions, many of the visionaries putting down their experience to aliens or god.

Just recently, we have had another member trying to create a small religious group to attempt to persuade the government to allow ayahuasca use for religious experience - subtly suggesting that those who weren't religious shouldn't use the medicine. And now we have the the gnostic groups - secretive, slightly masonic in their paranoia, and going hard up against the religious by suggesting that their interpretation of the visions is The Real Deal (Now give me some money).

I see the situation developing just as Terence McKenna foretold, in a spiral of ever-increasing speed, reality destined to follow the same path each turn of the wheel but faster and faster, more fragmented and highly volatile. As the spin-offs from the ayahuasca users community continues, everyone must quickly pick a side or forever be left on the sidelines. We can't all be fence-sitters forever, that's what the old witch doctors thought, and look what happened to them! Fringe users, slightly mad, terrifying.

It might be interesting to hold this poll several times leading up to the nexus popint at the end of 2012, just to see if we can see any changes in the way people are thinking as the religious ethos appears to spread faster and faster in to the community of the soul.


#2 ∂an

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 07:37 AM

spiritual seems to fit ayahuasca best IMO; spirit and its relationship to the body, and the spirit bodies of all life, past, present and future.

I think Terence Mckenna's novelty wave was the archetype of the his own personal apocalypse mapped over the ebb and flow of history. It communicates the illogical but individually verifiable fact that the exterior world of reality and the interior world of the psyche are inextricably linked.
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#3 chilli

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:59 AM

then much more publicly, scientists wrote about the visions, many of the visionaries putting down their experience to aliens or god.


Have you got some examples of this? Thanks. By the way, I think the whole 2012 thing is very religious, or rather superstitious.

'As the plant produces its flowers, so the psyche creates its symbols.' —Carl Jung


#4 waterboy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 11:20 AM

Always concerning when something gets tied up under religion, and suddenly one is "not worthy" or not following a "true path", or whatever crap spin gets put upon it according to typically an individuals perception that you do not share.

This is only given strength through those that follow. Strength in numbers holds very true for religion IMO.

For me chemical first, spiritual second. I do not need anyone else to interpret any experience I have in life.
I also accept that sometimes there is no conclusive personal interpretation.

I had sensed an attack on those that are atheist in some previous threads, and have held back my response which is not unlike the response some may feel to statements such as " your religion is shit".

My perception of "spiritual" is different from "yours". I respect that, but do not tell me that mine is any less important, not worthy, less true. Too much of this comes from religious circles.and groups to attempt to gain higher ground.

I do not buy into such business models, but anyone is free to subscribe...., I see it as detrimental in the long term as this will breed division not unity. Must be time for the Chemical Crusades.

Do as you believe is right for you, stand alone or strength in numbers.

WB

Ps - I think the 2012 scenario has been good for "business" , and I may be a mad, fringe dweller :wink:

Bloody typos

Edited by waterboy, 17 March 2012 - 11:21 AM.

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"We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character." - Albert Einstein

 

"An alkaloid never occurs alone....." .      "You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".


#5 whitewind

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:17 PM

Have you got some examples of this? Thanks. By the way, I think the whole 2012 thing is very religious, or rather superstitious.


Actually, I am embarrassed to admit I do not have any references to hand, as most of my books are in storage, but I think Rick Strassman was possibly the first with DMT - The God Molecule, which I know discusses the injection of DMT rather than Ayahuasca ingestion, but is along the same lines as this discussion here.

I think the 2012 thing has a religious / superstitious element, I gained quite an interest and started doing a lot of research, then I went to a gathering on the North Coast - a discussion about 2012 and what it meant, and as the way I found out about the gathering had a huge amount of synchronicity associated about it, I managed to rock up a bit late and joined the crowd.

It was weird as hell, it felt like a religious gathering - and I was the only atheist there. I wanted to know details, and it was all about this wishy washy "you have to know to understand" and "we will all turn in to beings of light" and "you need to buy my latest book to see why my calender is slightly different to everyone else's" and I left with a very nasty feeling in my gut - very shocked and disappointed - and gave up on the whole thing.

Still, I think we are heading towards a nexus point, whether we find out exactly what that nexus is or not, or whether we will be able to see or feel the changes that occur, and we do certainly live in interesting times.

#6 space cadet swami

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:55 PM

It was weird as hell, it felt like a religious gathering - and I was the only atheist there. I wanted to know details, and it was all about this wishy washy "you have to know to understand" and "we will all turn in to beings of light" and "you need to buy my latest book to see why my calender is slightly different to everyone else's" and I left with a very nasty feeling in my gut - very shocked and disappointed - and gave up on the whole thing.


I think for a lot of "new agers" it's just their latest hobby...for others it seems to be an opportunity to make a dollar...but there are a few, who truly seek to find a greater understanding & connection to the whole. Every moment holds a nexus in it, with even more opportunities for the expansion of consciousness ever present. Whether the 2012 thing really will be impactual or not, I think will depend on the individuals ideals & beliefs...but then there's also the collective! :o
"We are spirits, in the material world" - Sting.

#7 waterboy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 01:53 PM

Every moment does have a nexus within it I think :) , your comment Space Cadet I find profound.

The end of MY world is when I die, whenever that may be.
I am sure I have come close a few times or possibly even crossed the line, but the "fire" still burned.- my date is still to arrive.

There have been hundreds of "end of the world" dates passed, and to come. There have always been groups attracted to such dates and knowing what "truth" it holds.

Everyone will have one (unless immortal or your head gets cut off :P ) , it is what it is.

But to keep on topic it deeply concerns me to see religion/faith/spirituality used to make something right/just/holy/legal.
The rhetoric that comes with it just plainly pisses me off.

I stand behind my previous statement of division Vs unity coming, it is already here on many fronts.

Edited by waterboy, 17 March 2012 - 03:03 PM.

"We cannot solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
"Weakness of attitude becomes weakness of character." - Albert Einstein

 

"An alkaloid never occurs alone....." .      "You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind".


#8 space cadet swami

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:32 PM

I stand behind my previous statement of division Vs unity coming, it is already here on many fronts.


Ultimately there is only unity.

The division lies in the perception of the beholder...duality is not real, it is a misperception (maya).

For me chemical first, spiritual second.



I agree that it is chemical first, spiritual secondary ... & religion is nothing more than a man made concept for the ignorant, who fear consumes to much for them to feel safe on this journey.
"We are spirits, in the material world" - Sting.

#9 Max Cady

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 07:47 PM

for what it's worth I think it's a cultural experience for the ancient tribes of the amazon. I find it hard to stomach westerners peddling their own brand of ceremonies with their own cultural type branding attached to it. I don't like the idea of pre-prepared brews being imported outside of it's home land.
and the idea of being an AYA tourist makes me fucking sick
Listen, you fuckers, you screwheads. Here is a man who would not take it anymore. A man who stood up against the scum, the cunts, the dogs, the filth, the shit. Here is a man who stood up.





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