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Posts posted by Darklight
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I have been experimenting with micropropagation for a while now...it is quite interesting!!
Much thanks again to those who have lit the path before me, helping guide my steps...
(...Darklight, Carol @ Kitchen Culture Kits, Shaman Australis Forum, and so, Torstein & friends...and the book, 'Plants from Test Tubes.)
Dividing and multiplying the plants is very effective.
They seem to put out roots, in some cases, in 1`.2 strength medium...oir, medium after the nutrients run out.
They can be slowed down bv temperature, I have one batch that has not been transferred for five month!! (at 60F)
Now, I am thinking about growing plants to a certain size, so they can be deflasked by others.
The bigger the better up to a certain point.
What might be the best way to do this part quickly?
How big, is big enough?
Here is what I am thinking:
Divide explants until a certain number is reached.
Root.,...in agar...
Then, transfer to final sales container (any suggestions on these containers would be helpful).
The medium in this final container in which the plant will be sold, would be full strength.
They would have roots when placed in there.
I would keep temperatures maybe at 70-75, and increase light.
Theory being, that the plant would grow faster with light and full strength nutrients.
Any thoughts on this are appreciated!!
Thanks!
Bigger is not necessarily better with direct sales TC plants.
What you want is a saleable plant which will survive deflasking. A plant with a large surface area is going to be at a disadvantage after a certain size, because it will need to feed so much more of itself and learn to survive contam risks.It is also more likely to damage during shipping
Other points against raising larger plants in TC include- time on the lab shelf which could be occupied by faster growing products, giving you more sales per square foot of grow shelf space. If you leave plants for six months prior to sale and they are six inches tall, you are probably not going to recover that against sale price when compared to the fact that the same space could be used to produce six smallersale plants every two months
Finally, there is a tradeoff between plant size, and the increased risk of contamination when transferring it. More surface area on the plant, more potential for contamination to fall on it, or it to be injured during handling, and longer times in containers which may not be 100% contam proof
I'm a fan on 30ml tubes for individual plant sales. Max 120ml. Polycarbonate, for ease and cost of shipping.
Ta on yr update about cooling plant growth to 60F to maintain longer shelf life. I've tried it in a few species too
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I would be very interested in 'at home' tissue culture but I don't know where to begin.
Do a search here for starters. Heaps of information, especially on threads Shonman has contributed to
There are also home TC links listed on here which use readily available ingredients
Would there be a database of what hormone/media works best for specific plants/genus? I cant find anything substantial. Or is it basically trial and error? and years of study:)
There's a TC wiki, but it is small and not well populated.
There is no database, sorry. Yes it's years of trial and error
Try checking scientific publications on Google first by species name, then genus for closely related species
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Assuming your tree's location makes for legal cultivation...
Take cuttings if the plant is in active growth. Hell, take cuttings and care for them on a heat mat with good airflow
Backups is your best bet, that way if something goes wrong you still have trees in your future
Good luck and let us know how it goes :D
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Ta for replies everyone. It's going to be a process.
I just got a coupla quotes from ppl to remove a very large Euc that is going to continue to block out most of the solar access year round for at least another 100 years ( planted pre-internet on the advice of a mate who planted 2 and had them die in 10 years, I thought this one would too )
Quote is gunna be about 2k minimum, so... um... by the time that happens technology may have advanced significantly.
Tradeoff could be tho if I spend 2k removing tree, I will save 2k on power bills. Leave it with me a bit https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=&key=ed93ee4b8a158835e0af19ead9c794b11af03de360911f7858b9da338588c45d
Some concluding advice - look very closely at your power usage (in Kwh/day) - see whether you can shift your energy intensive usage to the daytime when you are generating maximum output this is likely to make the investment in solar an economically sound one.... Whittle down your consumption as much as you can (e.g. energy efficient fridge, solar hotwater, LED lights)... and look toward lithium batteries in a few years, this way you escape being gouged for the goldplating charges of the massive ($37 billion) investment in poles and wires across NSW (and seemingly other eastern states)...
Fucking gold plating bastards. My aircon for the lab was approved by energy provider and overloaded the transformer to the point that living here was like working in a strobe light factory. Power fluctuated between 90-240v by the millisecond and chewed out a lot of circuit boards. Then they stuck another 2 houses on the transformer. Def didn't get my money's worth on that deal, my power prices rose while my gear burned out
If I reinstalled a more efficient lab aircon system it would run 24hr/ day but that would mean I could offset autoclave and flow hood use to middle of the day. Unsure how that would pan out over time re. billing
A mate told me to get in the roof and install some led wiring and drop a few in the roof of each room of the house, then hijack the original power points with the wiring to turn them on and off. You'd have a little spot in the linen cupboard to swap over the cheap twelve volt batteries that you'd charge on good days for free from your solar panels.
If I did this if want a few 12v power points etc to charge mobiles and laptops at night too.Yup. Solar charged LED lighting for regular power outages we get here is a priority
Your last statement says it all. If you want to be able to divorce your self from the grid, you have to purchase a system outright & forget about leasing one from GEM Energy Australia.
The website is unclear whether it is a lease/ buy arrangement or a straight out loan. I haven't followed it up due to large tree described at post beginning.
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Flowering like a bastard at my place this year in nnsw. I haven't seen it flower like this since 2007
How many seed I get remains to be seen
Not sure if it is because of a seasonal confluence, or the fact that I started fertilising it regularly with a foliar spray about eight months ago
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PM'd https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=&key=ed93ee4b8a158835e0af19ead9c794b11af03de360911f7858b9da338588c45d I prolly won't understand it but I love hoarding papers like this in the hope that one day I shall
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Can anyone recommend a good, reliable, quality supplier of fruit trees in Darwin?
I get Bunnings, with limited stock and range, and a couple of places which sell arids, and a bunch of empty links. Have contacted one or two places to see if I can find a pdf catalogue specifically for fruit
Interested to hear of other's experiences buying fruit trees up there
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bro, sorry. I just checked the shed, and ants have been into the seed and they don't look viable. I planted about 6 weeks ago, and gave the extra seedlings away yesterday... I'll have a look locally for you and get back to you. But if there's anyone else out there with seed....
Hey it happens, don't worry about it, I appreciate the trouble you have already gone to.
Would love it if you find more fresh seed tho https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=&key=ed93ee4b8a158835e0af19ead9c794b11af03de360911f7858b9da338588c45d
Anyone else? I seem to have just missed the season
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Rockin'- thank you! PMd
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A mate is heading up to remote NT, his family lost a lot of stuff in the recent cyclone, including their gardens
Not sure how big a priority their garden rebuild will be overall, but my mate wants to take up some fast growing basic stock, including a couple of favourites. A few NSW locals helping pack together something which will make it past whatever regional quarantine checks are encountered
Have specifically been asked for tamarind ( Tamarindus indica ). I heard yesterday that there are Tamarind trees in Darwin already, but my mate won't be stopping there long enough to collect, check, package seed even if it's in season. He's a very basic home veg gardener in Vic and has family concerns uppermost on what will be a long trip with multiple priorities
If anyone has any viable, clean Tamarind seed to donate/ trade/ sell, maybe 50 or so, please PM me. It'll be sent here to NSW first so I can ensure labelling and storage is 100% going to not be a hassle for him to travel with and that seed will be viable at the end of it
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Na, you didn't, it was lovely of you to have a go https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=&key=ed93ee4b8a158835e0af19ead9c794b11af03de360911f7858b9da338588c45d
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Ta Paradox, those did show up in searches but I was interested in hearing of experiences that were recent and current practices rather than research announcements. Or from installers, we had a few here a while back but they have gone quiet
Did make me miss ReShroomEd terribly tho. Love that bloke. If you're reading this mate, thinking of you https://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/applications/core/interface/imageproxy/imageproxy.php?img=&key=ed93ee4b8a158835e0af19ead9c794b11af03de360911f7858b9da338588c45d
Am thinking I'd rather get a quote from Rainbow Power Company, looking at their price for a similar system seems a smidge less, plus they're local so if anything goes awry it will be quicker to get a techie out
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Ooh ta Alice, Whirlpool is full of surprising stuff, I still associate them with computers and .au mostly til now :D
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Searched, but could only find one detailed thread covering solar installations in Bitches and Gripes
Am connected to the grid. I'd love to swerve it, because I don't see an end to the price increases, and because the technology seems to be more efficient than it used to be. I run a shit ton of stuff, as you can imagine. Autoclaves, flow hood, power tools
I do not understand my electricity bill, but I understand it's increased over 100% last few years. Not much provider competition in my area, am forced to pay highest prices for it and have had to scale back my business to accommodate that
This company is offering a solar install package deal in my area
http://www.gemenergy.com.au/northnsw/
Does it look any good? There were some installer ppl here a while ago, I'd love to hear feedback
Any system I put in would need to be able to leave the grid totally when battery technology improves. I have a love/hate relationship with the grid, I need to end it
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Bloody hippies are onto something ;)
Forum member here put me onto water kefir and gave me a culture. I've been at them all summer. Even in my micro-organism rich environment ( aka the kitchen ) the grains are still wholesome, healthy, productive and strong
Kaffir limes are harvesting now, so after full fermentation I strain the grains off and whack a small piece of the fresh peel in with the drink and let it sit another day. It's bloody marvellour and refreshing
Wondering if it's comparable in calories to commercial soft drink? Does this explain the mild energy buzz I get?
I suspected the brew could be mildly alcoholic but I tested it the other day, and no.
Go for it. Easy.
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Nutri-tech stuff is fantastic, I can't recommend them enough either. Plus their sales and research staff are knowledgable and interested, I've contacted them on research issues a few times
You can get their garden size packs on ebay
Fascinating field
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This.
Hot.
http://www.facebook.com/flowhive
We are very excited to introduce our new invention that allows you to enjoy fresh honey straight out of your beehive without opening it. It's far less stress for the bees and much, much easier for the beekeeper.
Launches tomorrow 11am. Is getting good reviews.
You can fit 2 Flow supers on top of a non-modified Langstroth brood box from the looks of things, as long as the frames are deep
If it's as good as it looks it does have a couple of on-flow impacts of interest:
If beekeeping becomes idiot-proof, more idiots will keep bees and not look after them, potentially providing a pool of pathogens and pests
If European beehives proliferate they could potentially knock native bees back a way. European bees start foraging much earlier in the day than the locals.
These are not negatives which would stop me from coveting and purchasing a Flow hive, any savings I make in time and money stuffing round with extractors etc I'll put into providing native hives for the locals
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I have found Eden seed quality to be progressively worse over the last few years- germination rates decreasing. Have been a customer of theirs for 20+ years and I'm switching to our local seed network for all veggie seed
This could be due to vendor storage for Eden seed at the retail end of course, more experimentation definitely needed, but I purchased from at least 3 different local stores
Bought 2 packs Eden seed capsicum, subject to my usual germination in propagation mix semi shade. One germination. Minimal germination for 2 x carrot variety, and nil for of all things, radish
Bought 2 packs random seed from local seed network the other week, 100% germination in one species, too many to count in the other
It's not the money I resent losing on Eden so much as I miss the opportunity to harvest food which should have grown and has grown previously here
Local seed networks are a safer bet for me
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^^
you don't have a right to say who reproduces and who doesn't
He said "please". Did you read that? Or are we back to that pathetic thread where anyone who said they were in favour of zero population growth was practically accused of wanting to break into houses and slaughter forum member's children. One of the low points in the intellectual life of this place IME
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PDF shuffler. I use it on Linux, not sure if it is on Win or iOS
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Hey wow, thanks Anodyne
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I have a bunch of Psychotria carthagenensis/ alba plants I'd like to put along a fenceline in NSW
There's a small chance that cows could get to them when they're taller ( the plants, not the cows )
Google has some loose insinuations that some Psychotria species could be potentially toxic to cattle, however most of the search results don't mention species and Psychotria is a large and varied genus
B&T World Seed has a reference saying P. viridis is toxic to cattle, but I can't find the study reference for that. And I'm planting P. carth
Has anyone here had P. carth within range of cattle reach? What were your experiences- cows OK?
If cattle are known to be affected by it I'll plant them somewhere else
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If you leave and never come back based on the reasons posted in this thread I will not miss your input.
Well I would, I quite liked the bloke. So what if he said something dumb, I said something similar a coupla years ago and I'm sure I've said other dumb stuff. Big deal. He seems OK to me
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Personally I'm growing tired of all the sarcasm around here lately from multiple users. I know it can be funny, even poignant, I just think its lowering the standard of discussion which might be the opposite of its intention.
Oh I love the sarcasm personally. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference, so sarcasm harder people. Harder. Shit deserves to be made fun o
it wasn't an analogy, it was a statement of fact. it's especially true with pharmaceutical companies and drug trials, where statistics are withheld or manipulated to get a product to market quicker. I don't agree that science is what you make of it. pure water boils at ~100°C @ 1ATM is science (open to variation due to a number of variables etc.) , it leaves no room for making anything of it, it's a simple statement of fact. this leads me to what i've been considering lately, and that is mathematics could be considered the only truly objective language, in that it doesn't leave room for the effects of qualia like simple human observations can. for example, you see a red square, i see a red square, how or or what type of red exactly is dependent on us the observers. but a photon detector can give us a precise measure of the red, let's say 450nm. this isn't open to interperetation or agenda, it's just a simple statement of fact.
Yep you are right in one sense, and my analogy was shoddy. Yes, water boils at ~100°C @ 1ATM. But the uses to which empirical observation are put reflects our own input and relationships with each other. Are you testing BP forsurgical polymer manufacture or are you calculating gas use for pouring boiled H2O over the heads of political dissidents? Either way, the figure is a constant. The end use is not
Did I get my point right yet? Science isn't privatised. A fuckload of what's funded has been privatised. Not too much of that is prohibited, or even out of range for many people. We've just embraced learned helplessness about chasing ideas rigorously for ourselves. There are valuable citizen science projects which combat this, and I love them
That's pretty much it.
Why bother play a game if you aren't enjoying it?
And yet... here you are... still complaining. Where's that luscious info you're witholding?
Don't take it personally, I've been caned for saying similar stuff years ago. But it was good advice. Don't whinge too long, fix it.
Growing micropropagated plants larger after rooting, and some general observations
in Ethnobotany
Posted · Edited by Darklight
I wouldn't bother with gelrite for micropropagation unless you have very particular research needs. It's expensive, not really necessary for most commercial replication, and prone to causing hyperhydricity in many species ( cells swell, appear almost transluscent, and replication becomes unreliable )
If you required absolute control over a media ( gelrite is more chemically consistent between batches, wheras agar is almost a biological indeterminate between agar batches of different origin ) then yeah, go the gelrite if you have a bulletproof protocol and enough material to keep back so hyperhydricity isn't an issue, then yeah, gelrite.
I didn't know about that but in hindsight it's logical- ta for the warning!
Theoretically yes, but I've never tried it
Me too. Just make a note of it. And keep enough material back so you don't lose the lot and can start again if needed
1) How long can these plants stay in medium, before they will stop growing and or suffer in quality in some way?
Until they do. There are few hard and fast rules. Most advice is informal from other TC people. I ran generations of Mitragyna til they ran out after about 5 years. Another media formulation could have made them last longer, or a different light and temp regime, or a different starting material. Running regen from generations of callus could have reduced the time or introduced variation and unreliability too
2) How long does medium made in advance, keep in the refridgerator?
The SDICN medium, says it is good for six weeks storage, and then use.
If you've sterilised media in the fridge, the other problem is going to be risking contamination via temp changes, especially if your lids and containers are made from different material and you open the fridge door a lot. Domestic fridges don't have the same temp control as lab grade ones too. My advice, don't store autoclaved media in the fridge and expect it to be reliable
Hormones in media, autoclaved or not, are another storage issue. Some like IAA degrade quickly. Others not so much. IDK the death curve, I have a mate with chemical knowledge I ask about this stuff when in doubt, and try not to store made up media too long at all
3) also, if there is a phase where the plant adjusts itself after being divided,
am I further ahead to let it grow while connected, then divide, or just divide right away?
Eh? I don't understand
4) what is the best way to make these grow quickly after deflasking?
If they are fully acclimatised post deflask, then you need to talk to a nursery person. Sorry, no idea
5) what are some profitable plants to produce via micropropagation?
You keep asking this, you've already got a bunch of species you're working on which look good :D Go and talk to some local specialist nurseries to you.
I would also add, that combining honey as a sugar source, and coconut milk (from a live green coconut is said to be best)
into the medium seem to increase growth and rooting a bit
I did not know that- thank you! Got any data to share for it? Have added coconut water occasionally, but not as a regular ingredient. Never tried honey, have some raw. How much do you add?