sandalwood

over at edot...one of the more active chemist members did a TLC plate and put it in the edot downloads sections. it compares chemistry between the lilly and lotus flowers. it appears that lilly is a bit stronger in alkaloid content. he also erroneously reported the presense of apomorphine in both species. later he studied this occurence and realized that neither flower contains apomorphine...rather he found traces of that compound that formed by some sort of reaction with the processes he used. he reported this error quickly at edot. but still many people think that these flowers might contain apomorphine. its really too bad that they dont, seeing as how expensive apomorphine is when used for sexual disfunction. I have consumed all parts of the lotus flower. my favorite extract of the lotus is the stamen extract. with the blue lilly I like the flower petals. blue lilly has some stronger effect on me than the lotus. but they are both similiar. there is a company in thailand that sells a 20x extract for a decent price. I think the raw flowers are just as good a product. I use them sometimes in shrine offerings and puja offerings. David Spess in his book on soma claims that these species are one of the true identities of soma. he also claims that the flower has caused toxic effects in large doses in early research of the plant materials. he also claims that some species have provided visionary effects. having consumed large amounts of most parts of these flowers, in their dried state, I wonder if its possible. perhaps just a mild hypnotic effect is all that is needed for some meditators to increase into a full blown immersion experience? I sort of doubt that these flowers were used as major visionary drugs.......though they very well might have been used as reinforcing relaxants/stimulants in rituals anyway. Spess claims that the stems were probably squeezed of their sap, producing the strongest form of soma. I dont know where he gets his info. perhaps probably in one of the books listed in his bibliography that are not avialable unless you travel to foreign librarys and know how to read sanskrit... it made me wonder if drying the flowers is destroying a major psychoactive effect? I would think though, that some of the extracts produced of this plant might have more stem material than you would get buying the raw leaf. I have had the extract make me feel a bit nauseous and dizzy. perhaps the stem is the stronger portion of these flowers. the blue lilly flower slightly helps opiate withdrawl....but it does not block withdrawl . it does seem to help with the sweats. much like jujube seed/date does. having similiar chemistry I compare jujube dates to lotus/lilly flowers in that they seem to help withdrawl a bit. the lotus flower parts can be sold for consumption...most extracts/preperations of the lotus flowers are produced on FDA approved processors. the blue lilly flower however has not been formally introduced as a dietary supplment. I have gotten stronger effects from ziziphus spinosa seed extract, and even just jujube dates(ziziphus jujube) compared to the blue lilly...there is some comparable chemistry I think...their chemistry is different also...but they do share some aporphine type compounds.

I have seen a person take 1 gram of cebil seed prepared snuff, and consume it almost all at once. they were drinking, and were told not to mix any drugs with this snuff, and they were also told the potency. but they didnt listen, and they proceeded to consume it all in a few quick lines. within minutes they were out cold. people watching thought that he OD'd on heroin or something. but he never quit breathing. he was out for over a half an hour. from his experience, he thought that cops and ambulances came, and took him to the hospital...but he died on the way. he was having a near death experience...that was all in his head. he woke up after a half an hour in a state of epiphany.. what he thought was going to be just another drunken psychedelic splurge...turned into a faux near death experience that he claims woke him up to a greater reality. this was all on 1 gram of regular cebil seed. I know another older person that wont touch the stuff without coca leaf. he says that argentinian shamans chew coca and smoke cebil seed together. he claims that some of the physical pain is taken away under the effects of coca. less nausea. he also smokes the cebil seed over insuffilation. another person I know in south america makes a simple water extract of the snuff. this water extract is concentrated, and allows for a larger amount of snuff to be absorbed with much less nasal pain.

yes, its nice that Obama won the presidency... nice in many ways. but he is not in anyway going to ease the drug war I dont think. really.... I am not really expecting him to change much. as a matter of fact, I think that under his term/s, we will probably see in the USA, a federal reaction to the state cannabis laws. right now in the bay area, cannabis is being distributed out of the city hall of SF. same I think with santa cruz. when Bush was re-elected he set out to bust alot of the cannabis clubs. the city reacted by taking the cannabis into a state agency. so the Feds will have to raid city hall to stop the major distribution hub for the medical cannabis. everyone knows that alot of the medical cannabis being grown is actually be diverted to states close by that dont allow medical cannabis. I think that under Obama's term that the drug war will just be stepped up. its another way to stimulate the failing economy here. actually the drug war is one of the only ways that we are keeping our prisons and county jails operating at over maximum populations. making money. the DEA will probably get to work on some of the ethnobotanical companys as the war in Iraq winds down I also think. the industry as a whole is incredibly easily watched. they shook the research chem companies the hardest...but the DEA is aware of and has made some small movements against ethnobotanical companies. I think corruption in the USA is rife. we are just starting to face the major consequences. until americans are ready to see psychoactive compounds for what they are, including tobacco and alcohol. the drug war will get worse. the hypocritical state of most americans view on drugs is pathetic. we cannot even honestly approach the issue until more people realize the nature of toxicity, and are willing to put cultural bias aside. familys pull interventions on loved ones...yet many of those family members take a smoke break halfway through the intervention. it is such a crime that a cheap and beneficial drug like morphine is controlled so strictly, and sold for so much more than the compound could cost. I knew cancer patients and aids patients that had to sell their morphine, as it was so expensive in the end that they were forced to trade the stuff for heroin, as the price of heroin was cheaper than the medication!! of course heroin is a stronger substance too....and that was another reason. but, the heroin is shorter acting compound, these people would probably have been better off with some cheap morphine. but they were forced to go on oxycodone...until oxycodone became a hot item. then they were forced to use morphine sulfate. they were prescribed some small amounts of stronger acting break through meds...but these were limited so much that they might have a couple actual days worth of breakthrough meds after the first week or two of a monthly dole out. its going to take more than a black president to change this country for the better...we need something radically different than the two party approach to life. I think the best thing that is happening is that people are making a difference in their local states. the fact that voting power has made it possible for a group of people to bypass all FDA rules about drug creation speaks volumes. if people could win the same right to grow their own opium, which in a way is already an approved substance for medical use, I would be even happier. but for now cannabis is a start. the only problem that I see is that alot of the people I know growing "legally" in their states that allow medical growing, are almost all involved with smuggling a good portion of that medical cannabis to the illicit market. a few years ago it was a flood of canadian cannabis coming into the USA...now it seems we are experiencing more USA grown cannabis being produced in states that allow medical competing with foreign cannabis. if the process is going to make it federally the feds will take the cannabis out of the hands of the people for sure. they will not allow private individuals to produce a non standardized plant product for medical use. they would probably just force the issue with some pharmacuetical company, and produce at least some sort of nebulizer hash oil delivery system or something. take the enjoyable natural form of the perfect plant, and reduce it to yet another stale shelf item. I really hope Obama does some good....he cannot do worse I dont see than Bush.. so many rich people are on damage control...so many people are holding out on facing corruption, and the economy is so fucked, and so many people are facing unemployment, if they legalize cannabis, they will loose hundreds of thousands of jobs! and I know people growing medical cannabis that are quite enjoying their status now...some of them do not want legalization just as much as the DEA. they would loose many customers.

well it is great to finally hear some detailed reporting on this rare psychoactive.!! I have been looking for a source for this plant for sometime. too bad the only commercially avialable material that has come to market is too expensive for me to research at the time being. I would gladly trade large amounts of blue lilly for any resource for this bark material. now, I dont know about this particular species having any nmda antagonist active compounds. I have done a little research into this plant and really the only component of this plant that I know to have psychoactive effect is the alkaloid himbacine which is a potent antagonist of the muscarinic M2 subtype receptor 1. that compound alone could probably be held accountable for many of the effects that you experienced with this plant material. the idea of a source of nmda antagonist active plant material is stimulating... I have had long term experience with the nmda antagonist dxm. in low doses this type of psychoactive is almost like taking an antideppressant. anyway, your research excites me, as it sounds like a relative small amount of at least certian bark material is quite active. the effects sound a little too strong for this herb to probably gain widespread approval as an herbal sedative or such. but probably this plant when harnessed will provide at least a small amount of people the chance to branch out into some wonderfully novel bioassay experience!! one of the most interesting posts of the new year!! thanks alot!

I received a sample of 50 milligrams of amfonelic acid from europe about a year ago. the people who sent it offered to sell me a gram of the pure compound for around 500$... I wasnt interested in having a bunch of it though. I waited about a year to try it.... dose of 5-10 milligrams gave me a slight headache...moderate stimulation...moderate euphoria/emotional increase. I didnt however really enjoy the effects compared to ritalin or cocaine. I wouldnt pay alot of money for this stuff, even though its fairly potent. the physical effect is not as interesting as ritalin or coca....the mental effects were OK...but there was more stimulation than euphoria. and some dizzy/nauseous type of reactions in the first hour. I have about 30 milligrams left and will probably have to throw it away rather than investigate further. coca leaf is far superior in my experience I think the people that got ahold of the substance thought that it was going to be a good selling research chem. there was a few brilliant sounding bioassays that made it sound better than cocaine... but my experience was not enough to put it in that category. still, this compound is probably more interesting for medicinal purposes than recreational....I wouldnt write the compound off in that respect.

nice torsten...maybe you could harvest fallen leaf material as well. does anyone know if the desert quandong, the santalum acuminata tree, has similiar aroma as the sandalwood tree? if so, it could be a nice source of limited incense material as well as carveable stone/pit... I wouldnt mind getting some of these desert quandong seeds as well...some of the carved beads I have seen a photo of made of that stone looked really nice.

well, the tie in is... Elaeocarpus grandis - Blue Quandong is that elaeocarpus grandis is also known as the the blue quandong.... perhaps there are more than one type of "quandong"? it seems so, that santalum acuminata is known as desert quandong, or native peach... today I looked up a website that shows pictures of carved quandong seeds... and they are considerably different from the elaeocarpus grandis seeds that I sourced (if the person correctly identified it!) looking into some photos of the two different species seeds I can tell that the santalum quandong seed is rounded, looking actually similiar to a rudraksha seed, but without as much of a topographical feature as the rudra... comparing e. grandis seeds to s. acuminata...the grandis seeds have much more topographical feature...they are most common 5 segment seeds...just like the rudra.. they are very close to certian types of rudraksha seeds actually,just bigger. a freind saw some of my rudra malas, and excitedly showed me banyan tree seeds from the big island...they were similiar to e. grandis seeds too, but much larger, and without a fine. tight, jewelry quality shell....... but the e. grandis seeds are jewelry quality...these seeds are friggin hard...if you dont have the right tools to deal with them...they will bust your tools... even the difference between rudraksha beads is so different that I believe that different elaeocarpus tree species are used to source bead materials, either that or the genetic diversity between trees of the same species accounts for the differences. Java rudra beads are worth the most....I dont have any java beads though I dont think. most rudra beads are about 1/4 the size of the standard e grandis seed...but there are very large rudra beads as well....108 bead count mala's of these large rudra beads are very long....you will see the large, large seeds on mostly sadhus... is it possible that other species of elaeocarpus are used for the bead industry in India/Nepal? if so e. grandis seeds might have some potential value. a person could drill through the centers...put them on a rod....and the grind down the high parts of the seed and have a very wicked looking surface for a handle for a knife, tool, letter opener..... they could be ground into squares....different shapes. the seeds even have a hole on the tops of them that work great for a starter hole...actually, a needle can be pushed almost into the center of the stone...so drilling through these seeds is not going to be as much work as going through the whole stone. elaeocarpus grandis, from what I could tell in the report specifically researching the grandisine alkaloids, is the one that contains the highest amounts of the purported most potent agonist at the delta receptor...and that would be grandisine F... so when I was asking my freind about locality of this species, he reportedly has one in his yard. he collected seed and leaf material for me. so I am hoping that the material might contain grandisine F... in the meantime, I am trying to find a ayurvedic extract of the elaeocarpus ganitrus (sphearicus) AKA rudraksha tree....as I know that currently this tree is consumed for various health issues. growing the rudraksha tree in the right environement would be very interesting...when they would start to fruit, a person could experience the fun of going through the fruits for the seeds with low or high numbers of segments.... if a person could potentially induce certian variation of segments...say find a feed/treatment/shock for the plant that might help create multi segment seeds above the 10 segment mark, that person might have a good thing on their hands... paying 50$ for a 11-14 segment thing retail would be a good deal. having a 108 seed mala with all 1 segments would be worth thousands... having a "siddha" mala with various numbers of different high segment beads cost into the thousands...up to the ten thousand mark and above for extremely large/complex ones..... if an interesting compound can be sourced from e. grandis. of course that would be great. I am just wondering if the leaf material is consumed by many animals.? or if there is any human usage of the tree beyond just eating the fruits?

I read about this oil and started researching about 4 years ago... I found a source for isolated thymoquinone, a component of the oil as well. I thought about fortifying the oil.....but havnt taken steps yet. I think that this plant material is one of the most active of the natural opioids. a good cough syrup could be made from this oil, menthol in high doses alone. menthol and thymoquinone have similiar structure... menthol is a kappa opioid agonist perhaps thymoquinone has some affinity? I sort of doubt that it does. the oil is a good potentiator of opiates/opioids....I actually have not tried the oil sans exogenous opiates/opioids though...I have been on a dose of painkillers for some years now.. but I am a sensitive user....I am even happy with codeine....doses of over a hundred milligrams is rarely needed.. I am able to use around the same amount of opiates without upping my dose too much. using plant materials/herbs/vitamins helps me keep tolerance in check. discipline as well. so I have a fairly good idea that the oil is really working...for one reason...I am usually beyond getting itchy, or nodding from my opiate use alone...that usually has to be a poly substance process to get to the nod, or the itch. but just a few tablespoons of this nigella oil, and I get itchy as hell. nose, legs...the usual spots. and the euphoria... and nausea that is possible from taking too much of the oil. combining the oil and grapefruit juice too close together is not reccomended.. I just saw a paper the other day that looked into using this oil for tolerance/painkilling augmentation when combined with standard opiate medications. and its possible that the oil is a decent analgesic just alone.... I have not researched any substitution of the oil for opiates.. but I have tried the oil when weening from opiates....and a once when kicking morphine...but I was also taking kratom at that point as well. anyway, a good oil for those willing to experiment... the oil can be expensive now...compared to 4 years ago.. but really you dont need much....30-40$ worth can last for a few months.

wow, this is fascinating news..... sounds like alot of work has been done already...but is not being shared, obviously there has been some structural study. looking into isoquinoline chemistry, mainly influenced by Shulgins recent collaborative book on the subject, I found that there are other plants with morphine precursors out there... sassafras is one, with amounts of reticuline in it... also, salutaridine is another morphine precursor that occurs in various croton species...some used as medicinals...one in particular I think has studies that suggest conversion to morphine in the body perhaps... other research along the same lines raises the possibility that these isoquinolines are manufactured in the human body in nearly the same fashion as the poppy plant. salutaridine occurs in croton, glaucium, papaver, sarcocapnos species... (-)-salutaridine occurs in corydalis, croton, stephania, peumus boldus and other species... while this is more exciting on paper maybe than biologically, it gave me hope that out there in the world that there are probably plants that further the connection...but instead of precursors to morphine, we might find morphine itself or even better, more potent analogs of the compound out in nature. this is my first post here at this forum, and a very interesting thread. I hope you Aussies can poke into this mystery deeper!