Sonny Jim

I can't help but be a bit confused about people opinions posted in this thread. People keep saying that they are not trying to defend pedophilia but there are a lot of post here that honestly sound to me like people don't understand why pedophilia is wrong. I know people have said that child molestation is wrong but it sounds to me like some people are trying to say that thinking about it is ok. Of course no one can stop an adult from fantasizing about sex with a child but that doesn't make these thoughts good thoughts. I know there might be people out there who wish they didn't have these thoughts but again it does not make them good thoughts. The people having them should not try to defend them IMO. Sure they should try there best to understand these thoughts, that is the only way they could ever over come them. I they are really good people then they should try their guts out to realise that there sexuality could only ever cause harm and I hope for their sake and everyone else they can do it. But they should never think that these kind of thoughts are OK because they would be wrong and they would be dangerous people. I also take issue with people who try to defend these thoughts. To me it seems like the defenders don't understand much about the psychological condition called pedophilia or the damage it does to the victims when these thought are acted out. I can only go off what people have written, I don't know anyone on this forum personally. Why did you write that about 13 year olds? I can't understand how it is relevant to the discussion so far unless you are trying to downplay the horrible nature of pedophilic (word?) thoughts.

Plenty of 13 year old girls and boys have not had sex at age 13. What does that have to do with child molestation? Are you saying that this makes it OK for an adult to have sex with a 13 year old? I really hope not. There are really important reasons for why an adult should not have sex with a child, I thought that was obvious, maybe it is not. That is understandable if people posting here are not adults them selves. One of the main reason that an adult should not have sex with or even sexualise a child is because it is the abuse of a position of trust. This is harmful emotionally to a child because trust is a pretty fundamental part of how we feel about the world and their is nothing quite like an adult abusing the trust a child has for them in terms of causing dreadful emotional pain. This is true even when a an 18 year old has sex with a 13 year old. The 13 year will be hurt when they realise that they were fooled by their feelings of admiration for the 18 year old who is older and cooler than them. They let the older person into their intimate space thinking they were both on the same level but this was not true. Most 18 year olds are on a different level in many ways to a 13 year old but the 13 year old does not realise this. The 13 year old might think the older person actually loves them on more than just a sexual level. The 13 year old will be hurt and hurt in a very deep way because they are usually so trusting. They have been violated in more ways than just sexually and will have great difficulty trusting with any kind of intimacy again. This is a terrible fate for the 13 year old because not being able to trust will stop them from taking part in many things in life that sustains them. But of course we all need sustenance and will become desperate without it. Having never been able to sustain them selves sexually or emotionally the now grown up 13 year old will find them selves with needs that cannot be met in a healthy way. But they need sex and emotional intimacy. The last time they could ever trust someone was when they were a child before the older person abused them, that was the last time they felt comfortable just to be next to someone else. Their sexual needs find it easiest to manifest themselves with people they can intimately trust but the only people who fit that description are children...

^^^ I know it has been shown to be effective and it is very popular but I don't think it is going to be able to replace a pain killing tablet. I have tried acupuncture and have also shared a student clinic with people learning acupuncture, so I have had a lot of people practice their acupuncture skills on me. I remember trying it for a tension headache and it provided no relief but an N+ did it in 20min of taking the tab. I have a little bit of an understanding of how it is supposed to work and it is probably way to complicated for the vast majority to do it for themselves anyway, I know I couldn't do it. So I can't see it replacing a pain killing tab.

"Fuck the NSAIDs, I won't take any of them. I don't believe that NSAIDs should be freely available over the counter either." That's the big problem with pain preparation. All the non centrally acting pain relievers witch are available ATM (Paracetamol and NSAIDs) are so bloody toxic. Maybe aspirin or paracetamol are ok for occasional use? but a lot people of people need to use them more than occasionally. Opiates are not a great alternative either because not everyone likes to feel even mildly stoned all the time and once your body is dependent on them your quality of life tends to go down regardless of having enough drugs to keep you out of withdrawal IME. We are in pretty desperate need of new and effective pain killers. Has anybody here heard of anything new and interesting in pain killer research and development?

Ibuprofen codeine combination precipitating severe hypokalaemia in a patient with pre-existing type 1 renal tubular acidosis A 36-year-old lady presented to the A&E with a 2-day history of generalized, severe progressive weakness of her limbs. Two days prior to her presentation, she had been exercising vigorously at the gym and subsequently developed muscle pain. In the hours following, she developed progressive weakness in her upper and lower limbs. She became unable to walk or stand. She described several previous episodes of leg weakness and numbness, especially at night, over a few months. On further questioning, she stated that she had been taking up to eight tablets of an ibuprofen codeine combination (200 mg + 12.8 mg respectively) everyday for 3 months for backache. She had been admitted previously with profound iron deficiency anaemia and weakness but mild hypokalaemia 19 months before, … link http://ndtplus.oxfordjournals.org/content/1/4/270.1.short

No, I have never knowingly spoken to a pedophile. I had no idea that 9 out of 10 pedophiles were actually good people. Edit I also want to make it clear that I do not take your word for it sheather. Anyway just because 9-10 pedophiles you have met are really good people does not mean that 9-10 pedophiles are good people. I am sure you realise this. Anyway. What I am now interested in sheather is how you have access to so many pedophiles. Are you doing a study or something sheather. Can you tell us any thing about your work with pedophiles? I for one would be interested.

"SonnyJim, You say that you understand exactly what Sheather means but simply disagree...then you go on to misinterpret/misrepresent what he is saying. He has not once said that molesting children does not hurt them. What he is saying is that pedophilia is an obsession with children, and does not always result in a person molesting children." I particularly have a problem with what sheather has written here: "I think in relation to synchro's first * point, that most paedophiles don't act on their thoughts. Most of them are just as good of people as you or I, who would rather die to a thousand salted wounds than allow a child to be harmed, either by them or another. Remember Paedophillia translates simply to "(obsessive) love of children" and in this sense many of them become very protective of those they love, as anyone does. Those who do act and harm a child should be tortured nine different ways this side of hell. Jesus was a Paedophile you know. (He loved everyone, remember? ) WWJD?" Here he says that most pedophiles are good people who don’t want to hurt children. I think this is complete nonsense. I am sorry if he does not mean this but it is what he wrote and was quite clear about it.

edit: this post is in response to what sheather just wrote. I can make a distinction between acting and not acting. I made that distinction in the first paragraph of my first post in this thread. My issues is that you seem to think that just because the word pedophile does not imply the act, that there are actually people out their who are pedophiles and don't act on it. I doubt there are many of these people but I can understand that it is possible that they do exist. Jeez! I can't help it if you think you more enlightened than everyone else on the point of serious sexual assault. I didn't realise that disagreeing with you would hurt your feelings so badly. I am sorry I am a lost cause to you now. I didn't realise you were trying to enlighten me and that while I was participating in this thread I was under your care my Shepard. Lucky you pointed that out or I could have gone for the rest of my life and not realised I was in the presence of greatness. Well you sure taught me a lesson.

"You think for thoughts of torture and murder, one should be treated normally, but thoughts of sexual relations to minors, and they should be under 24 hour watch? Regardless of that person's likelihood of acting on such a thing? I don't believe anything further I say to you will change a single thought in your head. It has become clear to me that there is the type of person that just doesn't want to listen, so here I will stop my attempt at injecting sense for some people. At least I made a couple of people think." Why do you believe it would be a good thing if you were able to change my opinion of pedophiles? Why should I agree with you if I don't agree with you? I get what you are saying but I don't agree with you! I am able to read and take in what you are saying and I don't agree with you. Simple as that. What you are saying does not stretch my limits of understanding nor am I frightened of your ideas and unable to process them due to a state of catatonia that you are imply comes over me which stops me from listening. I can understand what you meant when you say that you can understand a little bit of what makes pedophiles do and think as they might, that's great and how open minded of you! I don't see how your limited understanding of pedophilia is going to help any one who has to actually deal with pedophiles in a legal or mental health type setting make a decision that will keep pedophiles out of prison or a similar institution (similar in the sense that the institution would have to take away the pedophiles freedom). Going from what you have written in this thread you think that just because you are able to make a distinction between urging to do something bad and actually doing something bad that you some how have some knew and beneficial information to share that offers a new way of understanding and dealing with pedophiles. I can't see anything you have written in this thread that allows for that. Do I think people should be in trouble for their urges which are not acted on, no I don't. But I think the argument you are trying to put is completely hypothetical and does not take into account what we actually do as a community to attempt to keep our selves safe from individuals who wish to do us harm. In Australia, if we can prove that a person has molested a child we would usually lock them up. If somebody goes to the authorities and states that they are a risk to children but have not acted on it yet (a completely hypothetical situation) then I would think the authorities would be baffled, I don't know what the authorities would do but I would think that if the pedophile kept on insisting that he was a danger to children then I would hope the pedophile is taken off the streets and put into some kind of psychiatric hospital. I would hope it is the kind of psychiatric hospital that locks people inside them because this is what the pedophile is asking for i.e. help to not start molesting children. There is no other kind of help our society could offer them. Sure the pedophile would be subject to various forms of psychotherapy but the first thing I hope would happen is that the pedophile is removed from society. Like I said earlier, mental health care professionals don't have a fool proof way of treating things like depression so I don't see how they could make a sociopath "ok" to wonder the streets. It would be nice if we had institution that could help pedophiles who ask for it without having to lock them up but that is hardly the reality we are all dealing with. I don’t like the idea of anyone serving jail time for anything but that does not really factor into the equation. "Take that back. You are implementing the wrong definitions here, and are naming paedophiles as something they are not, this was exactly what I got angry at Meeka for." Get real! What is wrong with my definition of a pedophile? An adult who has sex with a child is hurting that child. The pedophile might have a different way of seeing what they do to children but their way of seeing sex is wrong. Luckily it really is as simple as that. Sexuality is a large or significant part of the adult psyche/body. If your understanding of sex means that you consider having sex with a child (which is interchangeable with hurting a child), then your understanding of sex is concerned with hurting people (hurting children). Hence a large part of the pedophile's being is concerned with hurting others. Again, it does not matter to the child that the pedophile has the best of intentions lol. I think that anyone who identifies as being a pedophile is a risk to the society in general. Just like I think any who identifies as being a serial killer is a risk to society. It is highly unlikely that these people would ever get in trouble for something they have not done because it is highly unlikely they would turn them selves in before they hurt anyone. On the off chance that a pedophile or serial killer dobs them selves in before they act on their urges, then I don’t think they would/should go to prison but I think they should be taken to a mental institution that is like a prison. That is the harsh reality we are dealing with.

"I would argue that in many cases, they are, seeing as the majority of paedophiles that I have spoken to would rather drive rusty nails through their genitals than hurt a child, especially one they felt an attraction to. Indeed, some form an almost fatherly protective emotion, they do not necessarily love children for their bodies, a solely sexual attraction. They are enthralled by the curiosity and adventure of children, their boundless enthusiasm and keenness to learn of the world. I can see where they're coming from in that respect too. (Sorry if that gave an... unfortunate mental image to some of you.) " If they know they have the urge to have sex with a child and they think that somehow this urge could be anything but wrong, then I say they are dead wrong and should not be trusted to be free in the community. They should not expect to be free in the community either. For my mind there is no question that an adult having sex with a child is simply wrong. It does not matter if the pedophile thinks they are being loving and protecting because in reality they are hurting the child in a dreadful way. If there was ever a good reason for prisons it is to keep people like that away from our children. The point is, that by your words, it matters not whether I act on these thoughts? Merely having them is enough, for me to be in the wrong, for me to be a bad person? No, I am not saying that you are guilty because of just any old bad urge. I am not talking about revenge fantasies or any other kind of mental extremities, I am talking about pedophiles. People who have a large part of their being ( their sexuality)devoted to hurting children. I am not saying that just because a person is sexually attracted to a child they should be locked up. I am saying that if a person has these urges but doesn't act on them then the only way they are going to get into trouble with the law is if they come forward. If they come forward then what do they expect us to do with them? If they are smart enough to be able to work out the urges are wrong then they should be smart enough to know that the authorities would not have there much respect for their quality of life. If they believe they are not a risk to children then they shouldn't come forward. If they believe that they are a risk then what do they honestly expect people to do with them. Why do they think we could do anything for them. Yes I know you described people who think having sex with children is some how loving and protective behavior towards the child but these people are very wrong. Very dangerously, scarily wrong about what they think is good for children and we must do our best to protect our children from them. If someone with these urges is smart enough to know they are wrong but cannot get the urges to go away (I don't expect them to be able to) and they are brave enough to come forward then I think they should be given special treatment, like giving them the most freedom possible whilst they are under 24 hour supervision. Why would they come forward if they didn't think they were a threat? What do these pedophiles want the authorities to do about it? Mental health professionals have a hard enough time helping people with depression. We have to be realistic at some point, what do you think we could actually do for people like that? Why should people with a problem like that think that the community could do anything for them. There are no "everybody wins" approaches to dealing with pedophiles because it is not a perfect world, there is not a happy story for everyone and the vast majority of pedophiles are not going to get effective help from criminal or mental health institution. Known pedophiles are also going to be under a lot of harassment from all sides. They would not get it from me because I don't take any pleasure or fulfillment in seeing others suffer, even pedophiles but I would never trust them around any child I was responsible for. The reality is that both the nice pedophiles and the stupid mean pedophiles lol will have to cop what they get. You seem to be saying that there are communities of nice pedophiles who simply love children a little too much.

Of course the Greek roots of the term "pedophilia" do not mean anything close to the act of child abuse. As far as I can tell if you try to use the word and keep strictly to its Greek roots, pedophilia could mean the existence of love between an individual and a child, it could even mean a child loving another child. But the English definition of the word is an adult who is sexually attracted to children. Sheather wrote: “but I for one cannot bring myself to condemn another based on their phillias. A paedophile has no say in whether they are a paedophile or not, just as homosexuals and bisexuals do not "choose" to be the way they are.” I don’t think that is right. I don’t think people are hating others based on their “philias” (loves) when they talk negatively about pedophilia. I think they are talking about the English definition of the word (the only definition of the word) i.e. pedophilia meaning an adult who is sexually attracted to a child / an adult who has urges to have sex with a child. Pedophilic thoughts are not thoughts of love for a child and certainly shouldn’t be confused as being loving thoughts towards a child (not saying you are confused in this way sheather). I also don’t think pedophile haters are coming from the same ignorant rational that the homosexual haters are coming from because I don’t think there is much to get wrong when calculating the “goods” and “bads” of pedophilia. I think it should be black and white i.e sexually assaulting a child or having the urge to sexually assault a child is wrong. In other words I don’t think it is possible to be to very ignorant about your knowledge of pedophiles but a lot of people can be very ignorant in their knowledge of homosexuals. I don’t think the two groups of haters defined by sheather actually do share that trait, so I can see what meeka was trying to say after she explained what she meant in post 24. I know that sheather was not trying to say that he was ok with pedophilia but I don’t think meeka was trying to say that she hates people for their “philias” either.

Yogi Don't be fooled by a wiki page or wherever that says it is safe to take 15g of ibuprofen per day (it doesn't actually say that anyway). That dose would literally temporarily strangle the blood supply to your kidneys, which causes parts of your kidneys to die. Your your body can function with a significant loss of kidney function and you probably wouldn't notice the kidney damage in terms of feeling unwell until it is too late. Unlike your liver, your kidneys can not regenerate with time. Once you have killed a nephron (basic structural and function unit of the kidney) it is gone for good. Also, NSAIDs like ibuprofen are a leading cause of stomach and duodenal ulcers in Australia. It is not a good idea to take even one N+ tab daily long term. Even CWEs are not a great idea health wise. It is easy to make a mistake and even if you do a good job of it you are still getting some ibuprofen or paracetamol. If someone made a mistake with a paracetamol CWE it could easily be their last. Maybe you could edit that part of your post and we can start the otc argument back up in the chemistry/pharmacolgy part of the thread which is hidden. At least that way people googling for an excuse to take 75 N+ tabs are less likely to find another source of information saying it is ok. I would be genuinely very interested from toxicological point of view to hear how you are going after taking all that ibuprofen on a daily basis. From what I understand, you have been taking that amount for years. Maybe you could have a simple kidney function test done. A liver function test would be interesting to. It is free and pretty easy to get a doctor agree to one. You wouldn't have to say you have been taking 80 or so N+ tabs a day. You could just go to a different Dr than usual and say the last time you had the test done it came back a bit dodgy and you wanted to get a follow up or something. When the results come back just ask for a copy. Sorry if it is a big ask but I think it would be valuable information. Plus it's realy the kind of thing you should do for your self anyway just to be sure your ok. If it shows problems you will know you have to look after your self a bit better or even a lot better.

The NASA footage with all the dots and stuff is quite odd but have you guys seen the rods explained videos. http://www.youtube.com/embed/gul1bjImnuM edit Sorry I can't get the you tube clip to appear in the thread but please click the link and tell me what you think. Seems to explain the rods videos pretty well. Also, has anyone seen anything that tries to explain the glowing blobs NASA footage. They do look a look like microbes don't they.

"man in the boat" I have never heard of it being called that.

Thanks for all the links sychromesh! I am currently enjoying A Film to End ALL Wars.

"So, you can understand my excitement over the PST: Something natural, costs half as much, and at low doses provides me with a subtle anti-depressant effect for hours at a time." Yeah mate, I can understand your excitement. Keep in mind that there are other option. Have you ever tried a two week buprenorphine detox. They do them at methadone clinics. It might be a good option for you when your ready, so why not look into it. I think it works very well to minimize the physical aspects of withdrawal. If you have been using for a long time, I am sure you realise that the physical withdrawal are usually the least of the problem. The psychological reasons (you talk about enjoying the anti depressant effects of opiates) are often the guts of the situation. Be careful and I wish you well

Hi Yogibear I am now very concerned for your life. How on earth are you able to achieve a 600mg dose of codeine with out a CWE. Even with panadeine forte (30mg codeine per tab) you would be taking a potentially life threatening dose of paracetamolevery day. If it is over the counter then you are alive against overwhelming odds. Even if you are taking an ibuprofen/codeine mix you are extremely lucky to still be alive. Maybe it was a good idea that you did post this Yogibear. This thread could save your life. In your case PST is much safer. I can't stress enough, how much safer it is than taking all that paracetamol or ibuprofen. The only reason you can buy pain preparation with a little bit of codeine in them (in Australia) over the counter (i.e no prescription) is because they have paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin in the tabs. One of the reasons they contain paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin is to prevent people from taking the whole packet and abusing the codeine. Read up on ibuprofen and paracetamol toxicity. From memory 10g of paracetamol is enough to do serious damage or kill an adult. You may feel "ok" but it is very likely you have damage to your liver, kidneys, stomach and intestines, heart (their the main ones) from taking all that. Let me put it another way. It is extremely unlikely that you don't have serious damage from exposure to toxic doses of these pain meds. I hope you are going to reply and say words to the effect of "oops...sorry, I meant 60mg of codeine per day not 600mg". That still equates to a dangerous amount of paracetamol, ibuprofen or aspirin but it makes the fact that you are still alive less mind boggling.

"Yep i agree some are waaaay more potent than other but even when ppl i know have told me a certain brand at a certain time are killer i have never gotten anything from them, like i mentioned in my previous post. There is no way pst could ever compare to M let alone H for me, shit it takes HUGE doses of taz pods to get me anywhere and cody i class the same as pst, has never worked for me at a range of ridiculous doses. My tolerance and method of administration i have no doubt are the cause of these things ;)" I getcha PD ;)

Sorry PD, I edited my post while you were replying. It still makes sense so I will leave it.

PD It depends on the type of seeds. It can vary greatly. Some are very very potent, some have been washed, some are not even the right species and some are a less potent sub type. My extended group of FOAFs, would say that the right seeds, at the right amount and extracted in an efficient way is comparable to M, oxy, H (you name it) and will easily do when the things are not available. It is not as euphoric as some of them and may not have the rush that a lot associate with the pleasurable effects. Yogibear If you have the right seeds then you have replaced your codeine habit with the equivalent of a pod tea habit. It is safer than codeine only if your are getting your codeine from a CWE because CWE is not perfect at getting the NSAID or paracetamol out. Also, I don't think it is technically legal to extract and consume alks from the seeds. Everyone is different but kicking cody can be very difficult. There is lots of good advice around including what PD just wrote. I will add that when you are ready to kick make sure you look after the nutrition and hydration side of things. Use loperamide (immodium) if you have to. It may be an opiate and you may have to taper from that but dehydration and malnutrition make every thing worse. Maybe this thread should be deleted in the interest of *all kinds of good reasons* and we can continue the discussion VIA PM or something. Maybe it belongs in the addiction thread.

Congratulations! You have just found the super market equivalent of methadone. My congratulation are meant sarcastically because using methadone to treat codeine withdrawal is like using xanax to quit a tobacco habit. I say the "super market equivalent of methadone" because PST, at the right dose will keep you "well" for at least two days. This ain't a good thing as just like methadone, PST seems to have a long half life, which usually leads to protracted withdrawals. Protracted withdrawals i.e over a month (if your lucky)worth of difficulty eating anything plus diarrhea = prolonged malnutrition and dehydration = one sick person, in a potentially very dangerous situation health wise. IME PST is the same as PPT. A far stronger concoction than codeine. PST should contain codeine as well as all the other alks (M included). In other words, if your interested in getting off codeine PST is the last thing you should be taking. Please don't take this the wrong way Yogibear, it's not a slight against you. How are you to know, without going down that road but I can't read what you just wrote and not comment. Plus, I have seen opiate naive people come close to an OD from less than 100g used to make PST (rare but it depends on the person). It all depends on the type of seed on the shelves at the time you go shopping and if they have been pre-washed or not, which can change greatly. There can even be variation within batch numbers.

which description was that? I assumed t st tantra was describing e when he wrote "....feeling like a god with a partial lobotomy!.....in just the right place!....." Was it not his words? I dunno, I thought it was funny and sounded like a good description for the drug. Mind you, it was about 14 years ago that I last encountered what felt like good and relatively clean e on a regular basis. I have had some good ones since but it is so rare (for me at least)and I had so many bad experiences with tabs that contained speed at best that I stopped bothering several years ago. I used to take it most weekends. I remember it being bloody expensive (between $50-$60 per tab)and was always available at raves. I also liked the tabs that were supposed to be MDA, which I remember people called "M's" in sydney at the time (I think. anyone else remember that?). I remember it was a bloody amazing feeling. Maybe it was a bit psychedelic but what I remember most was feeling unbelievably good. Like so so so good lol. Oh and of course feeling really close to people, even complete strangers.

"^ I wasn't enlarging the word weapon at you Sonny Jim" I didn't think you were Amazonian. Yeah, I like the worked steal with the ripples through it. I've never seen anything like that before.

lol. I was trying to be a smart ass but that makes sense. I didn't even think of that, I was spinning out over the bat with the nails in it and thought the milk was odd.

Thanks WD. I guess the meteors have been here for a heck of a long time. I wonder how it can ever be proved that it is not contamination from earth. I realise the suspected microbes were inside the meteor that was cracked open but still... It sounds like the kind of thing people will argue back and forth over forever if these things are found to be bio.