Lachy

Yeah? I would have thought the smell might be bit... pungent. Although you'd probably add a fair chunk of nitrogen to the mix by doing so... May be worth pondering.

After an absolute prick of an evening at work (I had to deal with a complete nutter who was well off his tree on what I would guess was speed, possibly ice, judging from his extreme aggression), I came home and tried rolling and smoking some hops that I'd been drying. You know, just to relax and chill. Now, I should note right at the start I'm pretty much a total noob when it comes to smoking anything. I've never smoked ciggies, nor have I even even tried weed. I've smoked mugwort on about half a dozen occasions, and found the floaty effect that I achieved pleasurable. As such, I (1) suck at rolling anything and (2) have no real experience to compare it to. I think I'm feeling something from the hops - basically, I'd call it calming and mildly sedative. On a plus, I can't make myself feel grumpy despite the shit of an evening I had at work tonight. Normally, if it's been a bad night, I'd stew over it and find myself getting angrier and angrier... at the moment, I'm as calm as possible. So, my question that I'm throwing out to the community - does anyone else have much experience smoking just hops, and if so, what sort of effects can you relate? Any side effects that you can recall? Cheers guys.

Can you give us any more details... what AV are you using, what is it detecting, etc?

Good things take time... Besides, I'd say science and medicine is about constantly learning and updating knowledge. The experiments are an ongoing part of this process.

I know that conventional wisdom suggests that worms don't like citrus and onion... however, I can say from personal experience that low levels of these types of waste don't seem to do any harm. In fact, the worms seem to be thriving in my compost bin which regularly cops both onion and citrus along with other fruit and vegies. As to avoiding non-vegie scraps... fair call. Definitely don't add meat, but I've found that small amounts of shredded newspaper, eggshells and ash from the fireplace all seem to be beneficial to the compost. Just don't overdo it, I guess, is the best rule to follow. As a general rule, I'd say that 80-90% of your compost should primarily be vegetable matter in origin. However, that's just my opinion.

Jasmine a sedative..? I did not know that. No wonder it doesn't make me hyper. Something tells me I have much to learn. And thankfully, this looks like the place to do it.

Or if you live near a waterway that contains them... net some mosquitofish (Gambusia spp.). Hey, they're an introduced pest, so we may as well put them to use, right? ;)

I'm all about the green tea with jasmine. Madura brand - available at safeway, and keeps me going throughout the day. However, to be honest I drink it mainly for the taste rather than any sort of stmulant effect. But then again, I'm the guy who will rarely even drink coffee. Me + stimulants = muchos hyperactivity. I really don't want to imagine what I'd be like on anything stronger.

You are including yourself as a tripper, given your previous psychedelic experiences - aren't you? (Nothing malicious intended mate, but you totally set yourself up for that one.)

I don't believe that. I prefer to say he's "talking from a certain, limited point of view". There's no particular reason for anyone to get hostile, no matter how passionate and heated the debate gets. Personally, I like to leave name calling and personal attacks to the people that populate parliament during Question Time. Back on track, Sina, I think you're absolutely right in your assessment of differences between Peyote, San Pedro et al. We are dealing with complex mixtures of substances, and the effects from different sources will be strikingly different dependent on the chemical makeup. Of course LSA will be different to LSD. I suspect shroomnoob is just making a too-broad generalisation when discussing these plants. (Please note, I really, really don't intend any disrespect to any members. I just want a good discussion about what is to me a fascinating topic, without silly name-calling.)

I've got a number of Pereskiopsis plants (bought from SAB) that are throwing out shoots, and ideally I'd like to use them as grafting stocks in the future. That's all well and good, however... they are growing very slowly. Each shoot, at the most, has grown maybe two or three inches over this summer. Now, I'm used to cacti growing slowly - I've got something like 300 assorted cacti here - and I think that I'm reasonably familiar with this family's growth habits, but... I'm lead to believe that peres are supposed to be much faster than this. The plants get a good drenching every week, and get seaweed emulsion fertilliser once a fortnight during the growing season. They get plenty of light, and spend their time sitting on a sunny deck all day long. My other cacti are thriving, and yet... these ones aren't. What am I doing wrong? Would I be better cutting off the new growth and trying to root it separately? Cheers for any help... I'm at a bit of a loss here.

Cheers for the advice. The plants are now growing in a slightly more shady (albeit still well-lit) spot, and are getting far more water. Hopefully I'll observe some solid growth before winter hits. Thanks again.

Hey, I do what I can, mate. I'll agree with that in general terms. However, I'd say that because psychedelics allow people to explore their mind and to take it - shall we say - for a test drive, the state of mind of the user is always going to be a key component. After all, every mind is different and I'd think you'd have to agree that a person who lovingly grows and cultivates some subs as part of "becoming closer to nature" is entirely different to the teenager who buys some (otherwise identical) "mushies" off a mate "because they can make you see all sorts of crazy shit". It's a totally different headspace that's being explored. The psychedelic is just the way in. I see no evidence of plant spirits or sentience either. I'm open to people who have evidence to the contrary, but as Carl Sagan said, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. However, I do recognise that people get pleasure and satisfaction out of growing and harvesting plants. Even if the effect on the resulting psychedelic experience is purely due to individual psychology or a placebo effect, so be it. It works for that particular user, and they feel better for it... so be it. If you'd prefer to use synthetics, so be it. Ultimately, it's your call. Personally, I can neither condone nor recommend the ingestion of these substances, naturally grown or synthesised in a lab setting. I'd prefer to stick with my beer, thanks very much.

I think we're sort of drawing towards the same point here... by and large, I agree with what you're saying. As I was reading through, I was thinking "what about wine tasting?" as an example. Then, lo and behold you had the same thought: And therein lies the key. The drinker who is consuming booze to get smashed is a different creature to the drinker who enjoys drinking wine as part of a meal, or who drinks to enjoy the flavour of the wine. I don't drink a lot of wine so I'll stop with the wine analogy as I don't have the requisite knowledge of its manufacture and defining varietal characteristics. However, I do brew and consume plenty of beer, so I'll stick with what I know. I can assure you there are very clear differences in flavour among what are, to the layperson, "just beer", just as there are diffences with wine varieties. I could pour you three beers - say; a wheat beer, a lager and an American pale ale. They all look roughly the same, and all have roughly the same proportion of alcohol, residual carbohydrates, and roughly the same hopping rates. Without a doubt, they're all beers, and yes, all will get you drunk at the end of the night, if that's your goal. However, there are very clear differences between them - different malts used, different hops... even slightly different yeast strains. These differences will not seem like much from an analytical point. However, the flavours are remarkably different. Even the mouthfeel is different, as different beers carbonate slightly differently. If you smash each beer down, you may not taste the subtleties. However, if you take your time, and actually allow yourself to properly taste them... you'll see there's a world of difference. Try it and see.

I'd think frost probably wouldn't help the plants too much. Yeah, it might well survive but you'd probably be looking at damage to at least the skin of the plant, hurting the appearence and possibly weakening it overall. Hardy cacti like Opuntia would probably shrug that sort of thing off, however I wouldn't like to see how an Ariocarpus, Aztekium or even a Loph would handle it. I grow cacti outdoors throughout the year. However, I grow them under a single layer of laserlite (it's some sort of clear polycarbonate roofing... stuff) to keep the rain off them, and hence as a side effect I don't get frosts directly on my plants. Really sensitive plants (such as seedlings, and my few Lophs) live indoors, just to be safe.

Yep, I'd agree with that. However, keep in mind that we still don't know what other compounds may be active in these plants, and how different combinations react differently. Just because mescaline is the primary compound that we're aware of doesn't mean there isn't other active or potentiating compounds at work in the background. This is quite simple, really. We're talking about pharmacological activity, not say the relatively simple protein breakdown and synthesis or carbohydrate utilisation that are the main reactions that make up the digestion of foodstuffs. Now, I'm sure that you're aware that some chemicals produce measurable effects in humans at tiny levels. We're talking a couple hundred micrograms here. LSD, scopolamine... hell, let's take some toxins to clearly demonstrate my point. Ricin exhibits very clear symptoms of poisoning (ie - death!) at about 500ug. That's not subtle in the slightest in its effect, and yet the dose is miniscule. The fact is, the human body is very sensitive to some chemicals. Esters, for instance, are detectable by scent at absurdly low levels. Denatonium benzoate is so bitter that 10ppm is detectable by taste. As to your comment about eating a salad before consuming a psychedelic... oddly enough, that could have an effect. I'm sure that you are aware that certain foods can provoke adverse reactions in people who are taking certain medications, or could decrease the effectiveness of a particular medication being taken. I see no reason why the same principle wouldn't apply with psychedelics. Who says it has to be only three or four actives? Given the complexity of the reactions involved, there could be many more substances involved. We just don't know at this stage. However, I certainly believe that with time and adequate research, there's no reason why science won't work this out. Well, I just gave you an example, which doesn't require any sort of supernatural... stuff. I'm saying that the plant mixtures and extracts are impure and that other compounds may alter the experience. On top of this, I maintain that the individual consuming the psychoactive in question also has an effect. Set and setting as a psychological component, and individual neurochemistry as a deciding factor in how the substance is metabolised. Oh, and for the record shroomnoob, I don't believe in the supernatural. At all. However, my love of science has taught me one thing - it's a big, complex universe that we inhabit, and we sure as hell have a lot to discover.

Yeah, I'd go with sand too. I'd be concerned about the sawdust having a negative effect on the cuttings. Particularly if there's sawdust from toxic or treated timber involved. Or MDF dust, for that matter...

Given the complexity of the reaction involved, I'd be more surprised if the effects were identical. Generally, the basic effects of what we could call the "trip" may be similar, because the molecule will have the same general effects on the body. But when we start analysing the subtle nuances of a trip... things get really complex. Subtle variations between indiduals, slightly different body chemistry... even consuming a substance at a different time of day could theoretically have an effect. If I understand correctly, this is due to minute differences in the positioning of the molecules when frozen. This is more physics than chemistry at work... and again, the complexity involved is quite staggering. ... I guess this is kind of why I love science... it just keeps finding new complexities and subtleties in the universe, and leaves me going "wow!" at the intricacy of it all. The sheer "bigness" and complexity of the universe is mind expanding in itself, no drugs required.

Thanks to you guys too. I don't know about it sending me blind, but the optometrist reckons I need stronger glasses, so maybe I've been overdoing it slightly...

*reads all of the above* Fecking hell... Okay, I know that I'm a newbie here (and I'm possibly going be perceived as stepping on some toes; I assure you that is not my intention), but I'll weigh in a bit on the original questions, and stay out of the stuff that seems to have gone a bit off the rails in the posts above. I would say that consuming differing species would have different effects dependent on a multitude of factors. I think primarily, a major issue is that whilst mescaline is the primary substance in question, there's a heap of other active and potentiating substances also present in plants. The chemistry involved is going to be enormously complex. Take into account the complexity of how these chemicals react with neurotransmitters in the human brain, and other effects produced by secondary metabolites... not to mention that we still don't really understand how the phenomenon of perception actually works and how these substances interact with the process. Overall, there's a heap of really complex chemistry at work here. Theoretically, if you tweak one element, the result is going to be different. Taking a measured amount of raw mescaline therefore must have a different effect to consuming the chemical soup that is peyote or san pedro, even if the levels of mescaline are identical. Of course, all this is before taking into account questions of set and setting, and how this will effect the psychedelic experience. For want of a better term, the "headspace" of the user seems to have a significant component. By way of example, look at alcohol - some people become aggressive drunks, others hug everyone they see. Others do karaoke, some sob into their beer. The psychological makeup of the user has to be taken into account when assessing the effects of any psychoactive substance. Again, the complexity of the chemistry involved precludes this. Pure DMT, mescaline or whatever, will yield X effect, in theory. However, as stated above, results may vary dependent on other chemicals involved in the mix - and I include the neurochemistry of the individual too. If someone consumes peyote, they're getting all sorts of stuff beyond mescaline, which must alter the effect. Again, consider the individual as well, and their body chemistry. Again, you're talking about pure substance vs. mixture. I'll say no more on this beyond: Yes, both options are active. Yes, with the equipment, we could create a purely synthetic mixture that is chemically identical in active principles to a peyote. However, if you come back to the psychology I mentioned before... a person who lovingly tends to and harvests a psychedelic plant will surely have a different effect to a volunteer who is administered an identical amount of a chemically identical, yet fully synthetic psychedelic compound, if only because the "headspace" is different between the two subjects. Just my thoughts on the matter. Not exactly gospel, but it makes sense to me.

So, basically, treat them just like any other plant but not like a cactus? I might re-pot them this weekend and see how they go. Cheers for the advice.

Wow... that looks pretty amazing. I wish I was near Adelaide at the moment...

Shh... don't tell anyone.

Cheers for the welcomes, guys.

That's alright guys. I'm going to drive down and chat with the people at Diggers in a couple of weeks, so I'll try them as well.