Vertmorpheus

And another, while it's working... and one from the same seed prop run, that lives in a pot... pots are bad, mmkay. Oh, equally disgruntled potted woodrose snaking out there, too. VM

mumblegruntswearbangthudrattlecrash try that

what a bloody mess... don't let gardeners near computers I reckon. And here's one we prepared earlier... Praise be to St. Bee, without his tireless efforts none of this would have been possible! Interwoven with Jicama Yam Beans. Watering tapered off as weather cooled into winter, most pods now 7mm across, 1-4 seeds, average 2 in classic Sacred Heart shape ... Yerba Maria, n all that hey. Fed chook poo, top notch soil, local wood ashes, misted aerially in midafternoon thru a fair bit of early flower bud stage, once again tapered to a minimum as flowers started opening... trying not to get rot in pods, etc. So far, only a few rotten pods found, most perfect. Picture does not do volume of pods justice, lodsnlodsopodsmygods Decent flower/fruit feeding style until podset, then tapered off along with watering. Ripening off rainwater and morning mists for now, all going well. Framework is galvanised 2 inch mesh held up with tomato stakes, soil is typical SEQ mountain washdown/floodsilt, watered with dam water mainly, bed previously used for beans and tomatos. Soil broken to around 45cm, raised beds, no pesticides or fungicides used at any stage. Most weeds seemed to be supressed around plant by combo of shade and competition for nutrient/water. Minimal care, no chewing or sucking pests. Some slight mould in very dense seed pod areas, spiders spin web between pods and it has a hard time drying out... but a few rotten pods is better than a million bugs. Fine wire mesh to make protective enclosure from possums n turkeys got em off to a good start, standard high N style vege growth regime til cool weather. A good prune at first sign of flower bud production (knock heads off any long leaders, weave laterals back into the bush, etc, standard vine stuff) seemed to send it into flowering overdrive and ensure nice density of flowers and pods. Very productive for the space it takes up! If not trained back into itself and pruned I think it would be many many times bigger and a lot less productive. Bees ensured thorough (almost overly thorough ) pollination, mainly blue banded's and european honeys but a few natives too. past 10 am in peak flower, bees were so heavy with pollen they could barely be seen under all the dust and a few would get caught in flowers overnight as they closed around them. Delicious vanilla/jasmine scent, next year it's perfume time! VM

Cheers ears, those flowers seem a lil less ruffly than mine? I'm still keen to find out why JCU in TSV says they have a red flowered rivea... are some of us growing hybrids with some other white MG and dont know it? Those flowers also seem a touch pointier... VM

Just to be cruel.... my lil tribe was kept warm for most of this evening courtesy of a 7 dollar bag of firewood from the side of the road in an outer NW area... 50 percent of the bag was unbarked Maiden, with the rest nice sweet Bloodwood. I felt worse about burning the bloodwood BTW Brendan, you don't happen to do something theatrical for a living, do you? VM

much better and healthier pic. And you don't get motion sick looking at it either. VM

They grow into these.... this older one has since taken to throwing very long bridgey like spines on its shadiest side, go figure, fast grower thin for its height... not sure what it is prexactly but I like it, was chuffed to find another. And someone I think Passive? Someone... had posted pics of some in a thread about bridgesii awhile bag, has some older ones again. Purdy! Kinda rot prone, taking it a long time to readjust to being loved after its traumatic upbringing! Spines almost identical to monster bridgies I have, but just doesn't look like bridgesii I see pics of or in the flesh, bridge x pach maybe? edit yep pull eyes off Sinas prickly pear, stick em to my Juicey Mexican VM

My cameras a couple hours away for a couple days, if that helps ya any? They're just the normal swivelly eyes, black discs in clear bubbles, flat backed, stuck onto rocks to make pet rocks, finger puppets etc. Couple splats of superglue, one a 4 or 5 cm Trich hybrid, stuck to the "flats" on the side of two ribs, with an unfuckedwith one between them that gives the impression of a nose. Its really just a cactus with googly eyes glued on. But I can sort you a pic in a couple days if you're into that kinda thing. Tag says "Look" with two spring out sections, also eyeshaped. Did you make em? I can't take anything back, it IS an abomination if it dies, I will bury its remains at a crossroads so its spirit can't find it's way back here. edit: http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...=Juice+Bunnings try that, make the baby pach-ish looking one a cm taller, stick wobbly frog eyes to it. Its cute, in that should I love it or stand on it kinda way. I can get a pic of what that baby has grown into, won't be a tic... VM

Thats it, the few ancient plants or preps you can still buy off the shelf are basically things that kill you, some of them even when used "properly", and otherwise are more of the "shutupandgotosleep" nature than the "wow, I just had the BEST idea...." variety. Anything else is usually in a form or a product that makes it almost worthless medicinally, just a big ball of dodgy side effect. You can't get a room smiling with kava capsules, but you CAN get a tummy ache. Ciggies, codeine, alcohol... noone can debate the harm or potential harm of any of those things, well ok the codeine isnt so lethal immediately but when its mainly in combo with enough paracetamol in a pack to make a decent hole in your liver if you had it all at once... its all a bit suspect. Nothing to do with harm to the self, just harm to the system of things. Course, always being on the lookout for harm, the systems that rule are attracting serious harm anyways... self fulfilling fear...and then that makes them ANGRIER. Then they start freaking out and looking for more threats to crack down on VM

I had it suggested during some quiet muttering that a 50 50 combo of finely powdered middle aged leaf and root provides more in the way of... experiential "static", helps with moderating when having a smoko inasmuch as it seems more "there", than "here". Also a thicker less leafy smoke and slower burn rate helps if you tend to buy a ticket, but miss the brug bus perception wise. Datura seed coarsely ground is an interesting admixture to smoking blends, it has a thick cloying oilyness like other seeds, once again it tends to hit more buttons and you feel you've had more, for less... it's more "work" and you get paid cash, so to speak Straight brug root from mature specimen was found by the very hungry caterpillar to have persistant brainbuzz effect, very distracting, almost like the flicker of a flouro tube turned into intracranial sensation...almost entirely one dimensional in terms of effect, whatever it has in it, it has in spades and lil of anything else or so the Electrovertmungograph readouts indicated. But then the provider was growing in a planting with many, many weedy Amaranthus (just for Tst, haha) so maybe there's a whole OTHER idea there. Mixes, either quid with a salvia of your selection, 1:3 in dosage terms, smoke 1:4 with powdered Esfand (tremendous, and probably not with anything else), and my mate Ongeze in Dominican Republic says it's the ticket in cases where a snake plant flight seems inexplicably grounded, but then flying in bad weather is a lot rougher, apparently. VM

I was thinking if I fed the fuck out of it then bunged it in the cold, it might wax up a lil more and shed the glue... might try that before anything chemical or surgical, but it's handy to know the solvent won't mess up the skin overly much if done right, cheers! I guess lots of cuttings get niko'd on, etc. I've seen pics of Hamiltons, the stock looks nice on site but then in the nursery trade you KNOW your product is going to travel. I used to work at a nursery doing mainly Plumerias of all kinds, and they have a very similar rooting, watering and growing style esp from seed as the more common columnars... and the main thing is the transport mobs that shift plants from say Brisbane to Sydney are ROUGH AS GUTS and everyone knows it... so we had to come up with a mix that would a> grow a frangi well and b> keep em locked in rock solid so they don't flap about or just come out when some bogan picks them up by the stem and boots them into the back corner behind a pallet. Transport mobs should be more gentle, but yeah to send barely rooted seedlings in tiny weightless pots, mix that is granted very well draining and would be lovely if you planned on NOT trucking it 900 kilometres, and even to sell their stock thru outlets that show nothing but shitty handling and maintenence skills, it IS giving them a bad name. Who'd buy an Iphone if Apple made ipods with a paper outer case? Noone. I'm sure they would play just lovely in the factory, but keep it in your pocket for a day... Same shit, different seedling tray Every other companies stock tends to at least stay in its pot til you get home,give it to Auntie whoever, etc, and theirs as a general rule, doesn't. I'm a fairly accepting person, perfection-wise, and I love plants of all kinds especially cacti, I shouldn't HAVE to use a word like rescue in relation to something as resilient and forgiving as a Trich hybrid seedling grown by a specialist wholesaler and sold by the "big boys" in town. Dodgy all round. VM

.....and the weirdness follows. A couple people I know use it to hold supersmall buttons etc, just hold in place and while excluding air apply a small bead at a couple of points where the stock n scion meet, give it a couple to cure off then gently let go. Seems to just get engulfed or flake off later on. I'd worry that the method you mention might end up with glue getting into the vascular ring areas when you pressed down (glue is designed to be very smooth flowing before it sets, to get into fine shapes in cracks etc) if you applied too much, and otherwise might just stop the bond forming between the stock n scion flesh? They'd at best scar up seperately I think, with just a join at the bundles which may be a bit rickety, but it would grow I guess. Doesn't teos lil grafting book have something on glue? rings a bell. VM

I've read of people smoking precious stones etc, as well. Guess some chakric correspondence might come into it, I don't know much about Hinduism etc beyond the obvious, really. Also many spirits and elixirs in the "west" with gold and silver... some old absinthe had lots and lots of lead (see later posts in this thread... dont drink lead)... and people from copper rich areas that grew up on bore water are often found to get mad as hell without much provocation (ancedotal theory only, but holding true so far. Also shitty teeth n bones thanks to flourine). We give crazies lithium (and use it to cook speed) and don't talk to Masons about stones, if you're square. Heavy metal rocks out in all kinds of ways, it seems. I assume (in universal mystical shorthand kinda way, of course) that Saddhus or is it Siddhas? The guys that decide to roll all the way up the Ganges or spend 44 years with an arm in the air, etc, absorb "refined" and precious metals to attempt to harmonise (in the resonance sense) with its own cosmic vibrations (without getting too beach boys onya). VM

Champion! You know you're in QLD or the NT when ppls think Mad Max was a docco, not a fiction thing. Maybe a good candidate for Federal Transport Minister in the future? He's shown he can think on the go with his hands full and other pressing matters to attend to. VM

Its easy jeane, just log on to SAB, then look at the upper right hand corner of the screen. Click help. I found it helpful, anyway. VM

I've seen plenty of people act like tools after smoking, but not anyone that wasn't prone to being a bit of a tool to start with. I believe like wandjina that it's a fantastic plant with a lot to offer, probably at its most useful when used sparingly and with some kind of intent, or a conscious lack of intent, rather than as some kind of bog-filler for the gaps in your lifestyle. if your car runs rough, a lil lube helps, a bit of bog fills the holes, n oworries... but keep driving it with "running repairs" and one day its just goign to shit itself. Probably when youre in the middle of nowhere with no phone, no mates and somewhere important to be A bit now and then keeps me much cheerier, smoke it all day everyday and I'm a pointless ball of what ifs and what elses. Could get away with every other day, but it tends to work out as more of an "event" thing or a meditative tool at times... very rarely as thats one space that I don't want to go giving out duplicate keys for, requiring some other agent to open up my doors, etc. I prefer "nooooiiiccceeee" bush ANYDAY... once in a while the dredd H turns up and its great for about... 45 minutes... then thats as high as your getting, from then on its just Stooooonnned in the Bob Dylan proncunciation...headaches and heart palps to come after that. A lot of even "good bush" is picked just way too late, I think, I know why people like it that way but I would love maybe three weeks earlier... why be greedy, keep your customers VERTICAL and they can keep PAYING, haha. Hard too when you live either in burban isolation, or way out in the sticks, tried both and both have their own motivations for just stayinng pretty stoned every waking hour... nothing to do in the sticks, too much to do in the bricks... neither is easier I reckon just that in town its easier to steal things for smoke (and it does happen, its not just junkies and crackheads) then the payoff is nasty H, out bush with the right mates the nice stuffs just ...around... the green market and all... no ATMS or regional banks, see Otherwise its down the pub... small town pub... yeah, lets not. I can stay home and punch MYSELF, for half the price. I've seen it essentially evaporate the normal functions from normal enough people, when used at high levels for a long time, and I've seen it keep many essentially "bonkers" and sociopathic types pretty damned sane for ages too. The most bittersweet of cases I know of are people who stuck with it to keep em more "fun" around the kids... stay at home parents, etc... yeah theyer great fun when theyre on, suddenly old mates no help and Mum doesn't want to play elephants today. So she feels bad. So she gets on. Fuck. It can drive some nuts, keep some sane, like all medicines its about dosage and complimentary care. If you choose to see it purely as a "drug", a recreational and no more, then you kind of have to accept it makes some kind of dents in your head. Think something can fuck you up THAT much from such a tiny pinch of plant matter, not even an extract, just dried flowers, without causing the odd problem? Doubt it. It does "open the mind" in some and "broaden the senses" in others... it's just important I think to remember , you don't need a pile driver to open a peanut. Minimal force applied with good timing and a careful hand seems to be the ticket. ESPECIALLY if you want to use it purely as a "drug", it's SO much more entertaining when you give yourself a chance to remember straightness, now and then. Most hardcore smokers I know are just on, all the time, never off for longer than a day, if that... not pretty, whenthey go a few days dry... another few days they start makin resolutions a bout "thats it, I dont want to be this bound by a plant, etc" then they get some more nuggies and it just BLOWS THEIR BRAINS OUT THEIR BUMS and they fall in love alll over again. But not in the right way, they never realise that if they got blasted then just DIDNT, the next day, it'd be just as fun the next night when they did it again... but no... within a weeek its gone from two cones a night to 20 cones a day (plus the various other lifestyle additive we all know n love, usually) and it's just an insult to their intelligence, the plants potential, all kinds of things. That said, plenty of daily or nightly smokers I know are some of the most balanced, worked out, together kind of people I knnow... as they just don't want trouble interfering with them being able to go home, smoke up, crash out for a while. But they are all "productive" rather than just consumers... a big part of it all, as deep down all humans I think want to feel that hey achieved something that day... its not THAT hard to work thru a 50, with a lil practice. She's like the bitchy girl that gives a great backrub, or something. Certainly yields a strong fibre, especially when they end up wrapped around your heart and your brain and the rest of your life. I'd recommend a moderate dose of "ho hum" on a regular basis, interspersed with bacchanalian bouts of much humour and creative output. I worked out you can either get a lil stoned all the time, or REALLY stoned some of the time. Guess we all have to choose, I don't begrudge anyone either option (or both, haha) as long as its not impacting on anyone else overly much. If you know deep down you have a problem with it, and many do, theres nothing wrong with accepting it. There is something wrong about just going on blind til you've fucked everything, though. Side note, I hate the way the current concept of roadside drug testing is done here... complete bullshit... but if nothing else I know its helped a few people with extra motivation to basically halve their intake, and its worked wonders. So sometimes, in their effort to make sure you have less fun (and dont kill anyone with your car) the govt ends up saving you cash, making your green go further AND you get more stoned on average. If it's not fun anymore, you're probably doing it too much. VM

I'd agree entirely with every post in this thread, somehow I find brug to be the ultimate in deceptive plantlife... the first time I danced with her, really danced, her name was the Queen Deciever (who incidentally told be to never bother with her Son of the uppity flowers as I needed the feminine input more, which says volumes). Any smoking or use full stop is in extremely tiny amounts, used as a medicinal. I use it for wet lungs, congestion, tick poisoning and in extremely tiny amounts to counter constriction from other things at times (dicey, not recommended, works for me). I never make tea, so can't tell you about that. Quidding is the most common method now, medicinally, though at times it finds its way in tiny amounts (I think of a "thumbprint" from average sized leaf on MY plants as "one unit of dosage" and noone would ever be recommended more than three, ever ever ever) into combos with a much beloved salvia species. (not that one). Sometimes it gets combi'd with other bronchial medicinals in situations where lungs are too congested to tolerate the other medicine, smokewise, but that's very rare. With ticks, I quid one "unit" every morning for a week, on alternate days, very much found to help (for ME, try it and you might die, so don't or I'll feel bad), but then thats done really to capitalise on what I find to be very much an "ordeal dreaming" anyway. I know there is safety advice all over, but trust me even one pipe now n then can make profound and long lasting changes in your general ability to percieve how your are acting in relation to others, social norms, etc. Some of those can be very positive changes (it IS a medicine, and one that in its original setting was reserved for special cases it wasnt just toked up over a good mp3 or two) eg I personally believe it's an excellent agent in achieving a partial deathandrebirth. And it also makes you more inclined to forget that most people don't make up new words on the spot, describe things you can see in terms of sounds you might have heard, etc I would never recommend this to anyone that honestly wants to be a "normal" person ever, ever, ever again. A few tokes won't change much. But thing is, the first one will forever make you a bit useless at working out just what's changed anyway If the cosmic fool appeals, a spot of chaos never hurts and you don't think society has ever given you anything you couldn't live without, try it. But don't belive you can effect a change in your mindset, without leaving a lil change in your MIND. These days, shes's strictly medicinal, and not in that "no man, its medicinal" way. I keep mine kind of bonsai'd, for a few reasons... more potent newer growth... less noticeable (27 year old with a trumpet in a pot...fuck I wonder what he's interested in... doesnt matter what else you might be growing, people will see it and the first thought it "tripping fools")... I can keep it WELL out of reach of anything (my dog was found chewing hell out of a failed brug cut a month ago, til then he was always a very anxious dude thanks to his shitty life as a puppy, since then hes very, very cool but spends half his time looking for sticks about a foot long to chew to pieces). Also means local kiddies aren't tempted to duff a bag of flowers and kill themselves. Everything in our lives changes us, somehow, even if its averting unwanted changes... it's a lil naive I think to assume you can jam some of the most warping compounds ever found int oyour system in any way without making some kind of renovations in there. The first "literary" users of datura in Australia I know of were convicts on St Helena Island and in Tassie, who took to eating it when things got too dismal... they figured they'd die, or end up that mad that they wouldn't care anymore anyway... says something. When I smoked it "recreationally", it would take me a few weeks sometimes to realise I'd been acting... differently... for a while. Then I'd forget... All I can say is, I've always been an extremely wordy person, a teacher in year 4 sent me home with the quest to find out what "hyperlexia" and "hypergraphia" means... but it used to make a LOT more sense. Easily 400 percent improved "clarity" for the average reader... but then... do I have that much interest in the average reader? Therein lies the answer, hm? Valuable teacher and healer but she doesn't bulk bill, she takes her payment up front... least in the frontal haha. KNOW your substance... not the hype surrounding it. Problem is, to really know it, you have to get to know it... and by then it's sometimes a touch too late. VM edity bit... if you want to work out what ANY new thing does for you, or to you, keep a diary about it. Don't name names, although it might be helpful for paramedics to revive you later on :poke: just kidding... even a few brief notes morning n night with startes like "I notice...." "I feel...." "I have..." then read back over em a couple months later... then you'll see just how much of a ding it can make.

Some speedfreaks I knew onceuponacrime were big on sniffing swabs when hanging out, and a couple tried to get off the gear , did ok, ended up in a medical centre/chemist/ambulance for some other reason and just the "medical" smell was enough to tip em off again (I am sure in addition to other things). Smell is a very powerful trigger esp for anything memory or routine related. Dopa thing? Dunno. A girl that was in with that crowd got off the fast by the time honoured technique of "accidentally" ending up on the slow...then got very, very sick for a long time, turned yellow, etc... now anytime she smells anything vaguely medicinal, she feels sick to her guts and it causes her a FoF response at times, it's that firmly embedded. I've never done up anything, ever (the gods gave me gums for a reason, and even then they never got that good a workout... I can sleep all day without chemical support and I wouldn't wish insomnia on anyone) no matter how strongly it came recommended,as I know I have an extremely addictive personality, and was fortunate enough to see people of high intellect and willpower get fucked over by the process no matter how they approached it. I'd have made a complete and unrepenting mess of myself a million times over, or maybe jsut the once, by now... can't argue with that shit. Other random things I've heard of ppl booting in times of need are cough mixtures, alcohol, epsom, glucose and caffeine, promethazine (either from tabs or ingest dumb shit to get housecall so doctor gives it to you as an antiemetic/general spectrum shutup drug), the diphenhydramine goo from those Unisom sleep gels popped up too. And other good reasons why people who sell pot shouldn't branch out, then your quiet non-vegemite banging clientele dont have to put up with being offered washes, stolen car alarms, diseased blowjobs, not to mention the three hour long junky version of "choose your own adventure" where they try to tell you a story but have to keep changing it so they don't lag themselves for any specific offences. Classsssy. Never smoked anything without expecting a good result, and rarely been disappointed either... but sure seen people smoke some crazy shit. Worse than shit, haha. All those plastic fumes rot the brain maybe. And to anyone considering banging anything up, maybe just don't. Noone has the first yot thinking " I want to be a junky and I want to get done for breakaaand, breakandenter" (to the tune of that wanna be a hippy song) they just do it because some so called mate points out its more economical or entertaining.Movies give it some kind of style, pop culture keeps kids thinking its some new thing... only dating back to the civil war and all... Yeah it seems like fun reading all these posts doesn't it. VM

Yeah the flower shafts make good spears for fish in waterways, as they float pretty well but are still strong enough to give a decent lengthwise jab (shutup I heard that). Young boys of a colour that shall remain undiscussed (don't get me started...) also used the fluff covered heads as "training spears" or toy spears... the ballistics arent entirely different but they don't hurt, and also a favourite for stickfighting (what kid doesnt like belting his brother with a stick?)...hundredthousand year old paintball... they also smoulder really well when lit and make an excellent punk or tinder, incendiary spear (hide in the gully all you want, we'll just torch it...vegetables of mass destruction!.....or if left smoking, mozzie repellant smoke screen. Leaves have been used to weave baskets, to provide fibre to make fishing nets and dilly bags, bracelets and armlets etc were made from braided leaves with a bit of give left in the weave, to tuck flowers etc into. (some rites even called for live butterflies to be resined onto the skin... how beautiful is that, in a kind of macabre way?) and the resin from them was used as an adhesive. Interesting asbestos link there... wonder if its a matter of drainage points etc, or if they're that cunning a species they even get their roots into insulation ahead of the bushfires? Smart people, those plants! VM

Bear in mind that a decent whack of the land around coot tha is state forest, only a social spastic would go hacking bark off things in one of those. Also dunno bout the shorter wattles thing, I have a bit of a clue about areas not too far from there at all and the shorter species around tend to be young melas and hickorys... hickorys give ppl trouble as theyre grey, stringy, spike flowers etc. Even in more flat and open areas, I see some now regrowing in flood prone euca scrub, al

I don't think anyone was about to do that teotz, but ya do have to remember...youre 19 hey? Now, I'm not that old (27) or been into these things that long, but im still in my 14th year of ...whatever...others here would be on their 24th year of the same... which for you to achieve, and understand from the inside out, you'd have to have starting punching cones at somewhere round 4 years of age. maybe you did, in which case, few of us could ever understand that either! but yeah, your brain still has a fair few parts that are still "hardening off" versus some of our resident resin-dogs who pretty much sweat pure hash oil by now With many of our ongoing situations and adult relationships almost relying on herbal lubricant to keep the whole schemozzle rolling along. Maybe a possibility to quit while you're ahead, or while ya still have one at any rate "Two men bang their thumb in a door, both say theirs hurts the most" VM

Gday one n all... just a shorty to let you know I won't be seen around here much, anymore, I'm not dead, just dreaming ;) Not entirely due to working out I'm just too old for the pissing contests... I know who I am... and not entirely due to misgivings about the seriousness with which some people handle the security and liberty of others, despite reasonable expectation. Other factors such as some aspects of a health issue and weaning myself off anything with a power cord come into it too. Might make the odd post of tremendous importance,in the future, but can't really imagine what that'd be, so who knows. Don't forget, C+S Show at Cootha comin up soon...start saving kiddies. All outstanding trades/freebies were mailed today, cept Coschis, thats out tomorrow but you'll hafta resend me your addy. Deletitis, dont ya know. Shouldn't take too long to reach ya. Enjoy. Thanks for having a hairball around, learnt a bit and hopefully passed on a bit as well. Wishing you and yours safe and successful lives (by your own definition, of course). See you in the bushes, someday, somewhere. Remember... "If you knew you were going to die tomorrow, what would you be doing... and why aren't you doing it now?" VM

I thought I was back too. Ill be farked. No straight answers ever stay that way, just took a break, back now. Had the poos here n things to do other places, yknow how it is. Although now thanks to thunder I wonder if I'm here at all, or if there was some kind of nasty accident and I'm a vege in a bed someplace, just tripping. Existential dilemna... shoving a boogeymans head under a blanket... VM

It's not entirely different to cataloguing impurities and by product found in synthetic drugs, been going on for donkeys yonks all over the world... some cooks of high end things are apparently known to add "false impurities" to baffle it. The real worry when they start looking at genetics that closely is the likelihood of making uberdominant pollinators with feeble, weak hermie scab genes... harvest n store a futter uckload of pollen and then cropdust the place to upfuck the gene pool, or worse, start engineering pests and diseases with a view to remote eradication. Not so risky for em to do either, given there's not exactly too many other horticultural or agricultural species in the same genus. Not lik ethey're fucking with wild grapes or citrus or something. VM

Hey Ace if you like druggy cheese tech stuff, check out the ultimate in fantastic plastic, Velvet Acid Christ. It's about drugs n that. Big with the "nrinrinriNINInaNIII "...and everything just came to me" doofdoofdoof" , which is cool,and on some tracks that cool american industrial vocal technique where they try to sing on a track without their Mum hearing them singing grumpy things in their bedrooms at 3am. It's actually a lot of fun, probably the darker side of druggy cheese, tends to blow ppl away the first album and then they realise the second album they find sounds exactly the same, then they get angry and then only Skinny Puppy can save them. Oh, and if you really want da cheese, DL anything labelled "darkwave" brought out on Metropolis. It's like techno for goths, or industrial for little girls, I'm never sure which. Dark types that want to dance and never could believe in magick, but can believe in ecstacy:lol: I could just wield a katana on a GSXr while wearing a trenchcoat to that, dudes VM