Zu Posted November 2, 2000 Has Reville or any other west aussie ever come across phalaris in the Perth metro area? I remember reading once it was fairly common but I've never been particulary good at discerning one type of grass from another Is it a quick and easy grower? Prolly best I just buy the seeds from here I try my luck (at least that way I'm less likely to be collecting the wrong plant) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zu Posted November 2, 2000 For any Perth locals, you might be interested in this site... http://members.iinet.net.au/~weeds/western...aceae_eight.htm Hmm... I'm replying to my own message Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted November 2, 2000 Ive been to a sminar day on soils in the wheatbelt once and there was a guy named tim wyllie who was speaking about fodde species - he has done some trial with phalaris but i guess thats the low alkaloid variety. He said that it didnt do all the best as most varieties are summer growing rather than winter growing - the talk focused on the problem of waterlogging in ag systems - using non tree species to suck up groundwater in summer - bana grass/sorghum/paragrass,hymene(?)all stuff like that amazing results the paragrass grew several metres tall on some sites with no fertiliser (sufficient in water)- off the track but hey... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sholto Posted November 3, 2000 grass all looks the same to me- i grew the P. aquatica AQ-I variety from Torsten(email him to ask if he's still got seed, it's not in the catalogue)- grew like a mo' fo' in Aug-Sept-Oct, but some I tried in the colder months just became stunted. Haven't managed to collect any seed, and i think my last harvest may have decimated most of the crop- ther's graet info on growing it in the DMT FAQ at the lycaeum or erowid. Gotta go -more later Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zu Posted November 6, 2000 Did you have any luck extracting from your harvest? My extractions are usually poor, but that's cos' I'm as bad a chemist as I am a gardener Too damn impatient. Still if it grows quickly it sounds ideal for me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sholto Posted November 6, 2000 I've been trying to do alkaloid extractions for a while -i have no formal science background- but without much success. hoping my latest phalaris effort may be better because for the first time there's actually some colour in the solvent layer, but really i'm fumbling in the dark- too many variables whose possible impacts i don't understand. Actually i've been hoping to make contact with someone in Perth who would be willing to pass on some of these techniques- otherwise I guess I'll have to go back to uni to get an organic chem. degree Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest reville Posted November 7, 2000 Well ive just finished Biochem 2 and i wouldnt have a clue where to start - thats my word on what uni has taught me in practical chemistry! ...However if you wanted to isolate Fungal DNA, thats another matter...my skills are purely mol biol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zu Posted November 7, 2000 Did you stress the grass before harvesting to increase alkaloid content? I thought extraction from phalaris would be fairly straight forward. After all, DMT is fairly potent. What method and solvents did you use for the extraction? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sholto Posted November 7, 2000 I dreamed all this- it never happened. I didn't stress the grass before the first harvest- it got plenty of rain and it took about six weeks to reach a hieght of about 30cm- we'll see if ther'es any difference with the second harvest which was regrowth. Froze and thawed grass several times(didn't dry it beforehand)- estimate about 2kg wet weight. Crockpot on low overnight with a weak HCl soln, then filter- further simmering uncovered to reduce volume. add NH4OH in increments until red litmus turns blue. add 10% naptha(lighter fluid) agitate several times over 24 hours- solvent layer turned pale gold colour- separate in funnel. repeat 3 times at one week intervals. evaporate solvent in sun. result maybe 100mg of brown oily stuff. activity unknown. yet. possible reasons- lighter fluid not a good solvent: i was encouraged by the colour but disappionted by the quantity. inaccurate ph measurements- need indicator rather than litmus paper. tried the same tech with acacia bark but with methanol extraction. no colour in solvent, residue was a minute quantity of yellow oil. more anon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sholto Posted November 7, 2000 I dreamed all this- it never happened. I didn't stress the grass before the first harvest- it got plenty of rain and it took about six weeks to reach a hieght of about 30cm- we'll see if ther'es any difference with the second harvest which was regrowth. Froze and thawed grass several times(didn't dry it beforehand)- estimate about 2kg wet weight. Crockpot on low overnight with a weak HCl soln, then filter- further simmering uncovered to reduce volume. add NH4OH in increments until red litmus turns blue. add 10% naptha(lighter fluid) agitate several times over 24 hours- solvent layer turned pale gold colour- separate in funnel. repeat 3 times at one week intervals. evaporate solvent in sun. result maybe 100mg of brown oily stuff. activity unknown. yet. possible reasons- lighter fluid not a good solvent: i was encouraged by the colour but disappionted by the quantity. inaccurate ph measurements- need indicator rather than litmus paper. tried the same tech with acacia bark but with methanol extraction. no colour in solvent, residue was a minute quantity of yellow oil. more anon... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zu Posted November 8, 2000 I thought dmt had a fairly low boiling point. I don't know if the overnight simmer would have done it much good. Still, what would I know? That sounds like Mescalito Ted's extraction recipe. Has anyone had any luck with that method? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sholto Posted November 8, 2000 thanks for the tip- i'll just let it soak next time. i think a different solvent might be better, or maybe heating the extract/solvent combination- but then there's the temperature problem again... I'd like to use methylene chloride instead of naptha- some paint stripper has 940g/Litre of it, but i dunno if this means there's something else yukky added to it like an adhesive(it's viscous stuff) or that the stuff is lighter than water(actually it can't be because it sinks to the bottom of the extract, not the top). Also i believe it can be very difficult to separate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pyrotek Posted November 8, 2000 yep use DCM (methylene chloride ) yes u can extract it from SOME pant strippers use add = amount of water to DCM shake and wate for day works' good will not work with all paint stripper and if still not clear withc pure DCm is through teh old water out add new and shake Also it probley would be better to do an A/b extraction on the grass yes DMT has a low bolign point c-ay pyro Share this post Link to post Share on other sites