Flip

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=7121 I can tell you that's over a foot tall in that picture. :D http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=7119 1m+ I wish we had some more Eileens over here... I wonder how she would do? (trying to get back on thread) Is there any link between growth rates and morphing between the 3 forms (one form growing faster than the others)?

Sorry, I don't want to hijack the thread here Er, Michael no, No, NO... stay here! Save yourself the hassle and money and just move to Southern Kalifornia~! It's the land that makes real Hollywood dreams come true... Where else can a poor immigrant body builder ... become a business millionaire before 30, then translate over to being a very successful (and yet, still completely unintelligible) actor, only to move onto politics and become the governor of one of the worlds largest economies? Come on... honestly... can it get any crazier than that? Oh yeah, -He's also married to a Kennedy... :D Did I mention this area is GREAT for cacti too... :cool: leave them outdoors year round and watch them soak it up we've got it all.... just name it. sea, surf, sand, mountains, forest and desert ... and a 3rd world latin nation to visit. all within a 1 hour drive from each other. hehehhehehe [ 11. July 2005, 23:34: Message edited by: Flip ]

Seems to me that it's likely to be a hybred thats escaped and cloned itself around being that the rest of the population doesn't show any known activity. It's a post spanish colony... seems reasonable that someone brought a active mainland cacti in that flowered.

I'm sorry but I don't see any swelling at the base of the spines that is consistant with the T. Cuzo profile. (I'm really trying to make sense of this flood of info) the hybridizing is insane, what we need is a westminster of cacti. to get this organized... or at least to show how crazy we all are.... Just to save some people the time I've include the afore mentioned links here. The images are "largeish" for analog dialup. http://www.candyflipdesign.com/pub/flip/found.jpg http://www.candyflipdesign.com/pub/flip/found2.jpg http://www.candyflipdesign.com/pub/flip/found3.jpg I spotted this as I was going 60 mph. Seems to have been planted around a decade ago and left to fend for itself. The base seems to have been cut a few years after establilshing itself giving rise to many branches 12+ft high ( 4+ meters). The spines do not match the exact pattern as the plants from the kk242 96 seed that I've seen. the spines seemed to slight curve more around the plant vs remain straight. found3.jpg will show the swollen spines making it a T. Cuzcoensis as re-defined by the cactiphile known as "mss" (indeed, a superior cactiphile ). And who ever said that cacti we're "simple"... IF you buy seed labeled that said T. Peru you should expected T. Peru... unless it comes from any one names Karl K. [ 27. June 2005, 03:48: Message edited by: Flip ]

deleted. [ 25. June 2005, 02:39: Message edited by: Flip ]

I know that this has been mentioned in other threads. But I think it would be profitable to seed a thread here as well. Regarding, the vender sale of pealed cacti and other processed cacti products That are not only illegal in many nations under different assorted laws, but also fueling the descruction of wild populations for short term gain. If it continues, it'll be forcing the various drug agencies to act and start enforcement of the laws of schedualed substances. Leading to the illegalization of such cacti species that we're interested in preserving as safe and legal. That means no more gardens for anyone. Think about this.... I've been advocating that such vendors be contacted by as many people as possaible to let them know that they're going to be losing business if they continue to offer any cactus product. IF they lose money in a boycot we'll be controling a situation that shouldn't have started in the first place. whats your imput. [ 19. June 2005, 22:37: Message edited by: Flip ]

I've gotten a few replies from different vendors and they make a valid point about the sales being legal within their own nations and would like to continue to serve their fellow citizens (alright it's a bit pricey and listed in USD currencies on their website... but whatever) I have a certain canadian vendor that has floated the idea of restricting sales of peelings away from nations where it might cause problems. (namely the USA) What does the Aussie community say about having peelings shipments not being sent down to AUS in addition to the USA? I feel that the USA is the primary, not only because I live there, they're also the most uptight about such things with heavy laws. and they tend to bully other nations into complying with it's laws. Do you guys and gals feel that your government isn't going to care about peelings or make the distinction between those and the live plants/seeds. if it does move towards legalization? It seems that they outlawed kratom plants as well as the powder that people were using for making tea. Aside from all the environmental issue already mentioned. Thoughts? [ 24. June 2005, 06:18: Message edited by: Flip ]

The site mentioned above has some translation issues with it's wording. Progress is being made. Many sites, that have offered cacti peelings have withdrawn them from market. While leaving both seeds and Live cuttings up for legit sale. Thats really cool... THANK YOU! I've searched around for a few hours and had a hard time finding those that may be still selling. If anyone knows of one please PM me and e-mail them requesting that they stop. It's all going well, except for one peruvian site that also offers "Cacti Extract" by the botted "dose", cacti powder by the bag and even bottled Ayahausca. It would be a great time to let them know that they should pull those items. Or make it clear on their site that they're not going to send them to nations that are pushing the "drug war"... or any wars for that matter... That is, if you know the site I'm talking about. (hint) [ 23. June 2005, 01:13: Message edited by: Flip ]

Yeah, WE KNOW that but the problem is that some bozo's out there Don't and think, and that if it's for sale like hausca vine or roots "it must be OK" after all it's billed as "incense"... Now, the thought can extend to all leaves, extract etc. but I honestly fear the repercussions of the pealed skins and the potential for outlawing the cacti as well as all the ethical concerns already mentioned.

I think that it's a case of "whatever it takes" but lets start with the nicer stuff first.

I believe that both the carrot and the stick are great approaches to use. The positive (Carrot). The continuation of their online business, funneling of more clients to their site due to their ethical conduct and avoiding costly legal hassles that could land them and their customers in jail. The negative (Stick): Loss of clients to other "ethical vendors", Loss of Money, Legal Ramifications (Prison terms), Long term loss of customer base, loss of entire business (illegality of cacti and other "carriers" lost due new enforcement laws). Ethical concerns extinction, over harvesting and loss of wild strains... etc. Aside from the odd bozo that doesn't yet get the message... I honestly believe that we can have a great effect upon the entire botanical industry if we spread the word and make reasoned arguments that are focused on keeping people out of jail. I think that the most selfish people will perk up at that angle verses any "warm and fuzzy ethical tree hugging" arguments. At this point we need to get threads started on every forum and news group we can to bring the extent of the risks involved to those that are likely to order any processed cacti product. While at the same time offer the option of live cuttings and seeds as a safe(er) and "legal" alternative. so that people can understand that they don't have to go without. just that they have to be somewhat smart and take the time to do things right. This situation should have never arisen in the first place and it has to be corrected ASAP I've already had people inform me of confiscations They will not start enforcing cacti chips illegality but illegality of the entire Trichocereus genus of plants. [ 20. June 2005, 09:00: Message edited by: Flip ]

You can make all the excuses you want too or listen to all the BS that this walking anime character spouts. The truth is that distorted people should not have the ability to impress themselves upon children. Kids can't understand how wacked this person is. Sure as hell they can't protect themselves from him and his staff. I'm not against any person being different. but he REALLY pushes the issue. Personally, I believe that he's guilty as all hell. Also that he's unable to form healthy relationships with other humans. and is severely disturbed without a grasp of reality. His 2 marriages were a sham One for PR after the first set of boy sex charges. The other for the two male kids that can't be "taken away". Come on, since when has a dark skinned (black?) person fathered birth to two blond haired (not just light) white skinned kids? I seriously doubt he even fathered them. Then there's another male child that he got (somehow) only to have dangled him from a hotel balcony. Then there's that interview where he's holding the kids hand it goes on and on.... anyway he's bought himself out of jail (again). The system is REALLY MESSED UP. jackson's history 2b you bring up a interesting and sad point. I really don't know how to reply. Perhaps, the child themselves will point out what is proper like when

"Take either the RED or the BLUE pill..." Morpheus, -The Matrix. "There can be only one..." Morpheus, -The Matrix. "The problem is choice." Neo, The Matrix-Reloaded

yeah, thats a bad case of scale I LARGE magfying glass comes in handy I used a photographers loop to identify such problems The bridg aren't having the infestation because the scale hasn't been ttransported onto those (yet) I'm not sure if ants will move this type of scale around or if it's the well meaning grower touching his plants Either way, it's identified and the situation fixed. bests [ 12. June 2005, 17:54: Message edited by: Flip ]

I leave for a little while and look at what happens.... Fine, I'll give replies and bring this up out of obscurity and into the clear light of day.

quote: Not strictly a spiritual topic, but nonetheless: I have found that the greatest gift of the psychaedelic experience is also the greatest burden of the psychaedelic experience,ie the way it is able to break down structures of the cultural psyche into nothingness, allowing the user to step outside the traditional forms of seeing the world, the traditional hangups, and traditional aims of the human race (in this instance, the "western" ideals) This inded rings of W. Blake. As well as Taoism. (Tao Te Ching) You seem to be still caught up on dualism and neglecting the other side of things. that is western thought and conditioning for you... I have always strongly encouraged those wishing to delve into such Entheogenic experiences to first take a strong look at the Tao Te Ching and read it's "poetry" first as a preperation for the tide of the "Experience" that one falls into.. quote: what exactly ARE we to do with the human race?This represents the clif that adam and eve represented as the burden of choice. Knowledge. your question goes further in that you're assuming social responsibility. in essance, you can only be responsible for yourself. however, you can influence the masses and guide them. as an example, If we had never had Tim Leary's "tune in and drop out" mantra we might not have such a distilation of narrow minded neo conseratives dominating the globe right now -30 years later. Think about that... he was olny one person that stood up and had others follow him (as many are "conditioned" to do). naturally it came to naught. The only way anyone can influence a system is from within the system as well as outside (ie provide a valid option). Tim was a very popular icon/ person among the progressives. and as such, conversely influenced by the mindless masses to retain that same popularity. ie. he became a slave to his own power and status. quote: what shall I do?no one can answer that, but yourself. It's a very basic question and one that all with opened eyes share. The sad part is that most actually choose to keep their eyes shut. or attempt to hide from reality via drugs, religion or other distraction. quote: What is worth working for when working for something means others may become blindly sucked up into it as its value becomes dispersed and acculturated?Remember that you are in control. Now that you are aware of a problem, that's it's the first step in solving any problem. There is a dual solution of culture jaming and profiting off the system as the same time. Think of it as a equasion. the more they put into one side the more there is to tap on the other side. the natural way is things is to achieve balance. tap the unused energy of the unblanced equasion and you may be supprised at what may happen. The tail may not be able to wag the dog but it can certainly get everyones attention... including the dogs. I hope that this helps. [ 05. June 2005, 20:20: Message edited by: Flip ]

Devils Cactus, you know, I typed in plant communication and came up with a few university articles. http://www.edwardwillett.com/Columns/plant...mmunication.htm http://www.ubcbotanicalgarden.org/forums/s...read.php?t=7386 now these focus upon defensive /damage communication between different species. puping may be a different matter but if they're all clones, same environment etc. then it's reasonable that they're going to branch out at the same times and this may be helped along by certain chemicals that may be released during the process, influencing one plant from the other. [ 04. June 2005, 18:33: Message edited by: Flip ]

I'm inclined to believe that they're all clones with the same environment that may have been cross sending chemical ques to one another (gas?).

B- Cappi makes a great trellis plant. You can also make a living fence out of cacti. just to name a few.

Yup, thats San Diego alright "Americas finest City"...

Pond used to be a source for 1,4 and GBL when it was legal in the USA to do so. There are records for his application to sell and distribute such molecules after the schedualing and control of such. quite a interesting read into his state of mind... (supporting his insanity defense). He did sell quite a few phen and trypt's including 5-MEP DIPT. even after it was specifically illegalized in the states. He often made serious errors in the filling of orders it was well known that he was "nice" but very unstable "and only a matter of time... " and I feel for those people that are on his client lists. [ 30. May 2005, 21:18: Message edited by: Flip ]

How about this? why do we have religions what is it about mankind that spawns these institutions? Any thoughts?

Endrogen, quote: Literally, science can describe life but it can't make you appreciate it. Science alone can't make a moral choice. Science is a pragmatic tool... thats it's value. Well that appreciation stuff resides on our end of things. Morality? Well thats a framework of cultural conditioning spawned off of empathy. it's not a human trait by any means and likely evolved as a beneficial trait (certainly in mammals) Chimps have culture and empathy for other living things and can make such "spiritual" judgments, (affection, wonder etc.) they also make "war" on competing chimp "tribes". One wonders, what that does to that whole human exclusivity of having that "soul thing" huh? Again, it's a case of "science" defining what used to be simply explained as "god gift stuff" Most importantly religion would have never allowed for advancement if it was to have it's way. Looking backwards and to not move forwards is religions modus operandi. Back on track What I think you're saying is" that the implementation of knowledge are a double edge sword. what is learned via scientific investigation. has to me employed wisely and with foresight. if thats what you're saying... yeah I can totally agree with that. Twix, quote: But remember we can all become addicted to our beliefs, and when that happens all of a sudden difficult anomalies are explicable as coincidence, lies or delusions. its very easy to make science the new religion.I don't think that "science" can become a religion? I view it as a tool for gaining understanding. imo, It is best to have the ability to view any issue from multiple points of perceptive. Hence one of the reasons why a University education is so important. Entheogens can also be a tool for acquiring advantageous perspectives (explaining my forum presence) But the question that I have to answer has been "what is the truth?" and what the best way to live? I found religions promise this, but can't deliver... offering I've found, only delusions instead. [ 29. May 2005, 04:03: Message edited by: Flip ]

Hagakure , Well said indeed. Thanks. Yes, I knew that prophet was trying to bait me with that offering. The funny thing is that his mind is so narrowed that he can't see that he's much more apart of the problem than he will allow himself to admit. One should also note that The US VP Dick Cheney deeply believes that "war is the natural state of mankind". conforming to his Hobbesian outlook. wiki link this says quite a bit about himself and the bush adminstration Young Tripper, Thank you, I was never a debater in college.. art, psyc, politics etc.as well as a associates in communications. I also had a very serious interest in seeking "the true path" and "enlightnment" that preceded my University years. While in highschool. I was a self-described "bible packer".... But a University is intended to make one universal after all and not confined to the narrow. I'm still working on improving myself. Thank you :D Prophet, Yes, it has become a thread focused upon religious conditioning. It is "going nowhere" that you like. .. Your statements are not justified and backed up, and you do not stand your ground... simply because you really aren't taking any that can withstand any examination. believe me, that I'm not taking my time and wasting it because I get some joy out of tossing insults. I'm actually trying to wake you up! and help you take the blinders off. Endrogen, Thats sounds nice but it's untrue. All that statement is for, is to attempt to tie legitimate science to religion, so that religion can gain sciences standing. Religion does not care about science at all. in fact, it has a long standing animosity for it's reasoning power, as it's debunks their myths and removes their authority based upon ignorance, fear and threat. Science itself is a tool and as such, not concerned with religion. except, it can be used to explain it's existence and grasp over humanity.... In effect, to see what is real. [ 28. May 2005, 23:39: Message edited by: Flip ]

http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/comm...255E953,00.html nothing better than a attractive young woman to change the drug laws and get everyone on her side. quote: Family erupts in fury Cindy Wockner 28may05 THE family of Schapelle Corby was vitriolic about the verdict, yelling angry abuse at the judges as the words "guilty" and "20 years" sank in. Corby's mother Rosleigh Rose, sitting in the front row of the public gallery, jumped to her feet, shouting at the judges bench: "You took the word of a liar." She was referring to the customs officers who first apprehended her daughter at Bali airport and their claims that she was nervous and tried to stop them opening the boogie board bag. And she warned the judges they would never sleep. It was the reaction of a distraught mother who had just learned her beloved daughter could be condemned to spend the best years of her young life behind bars. "These judges will never sleep," she shouted, before telling Corby the family would bring her home. Also on his feet almost immediately was Corby's father Michael Corby, who is suffering from terminal prostate cancer, and Corby's older sister Mercedes. There was a long period of chaos as her family cried and shouted, and a shocked Corby looked around bewildered – at one stage trying to calm her mother by telling her it was "OK". Her anger was directed at the prosecutor, who she had glared at angrily during the judgment. The person she says planted the drugs in her bag was the one who should have been on trial, not her. Outside court, Corby's supporters were distressed and angry, imploring the Australian Government to do more to help her – citing current good relations between the Indonesian and Australian governments. Corby's good friend Glen Jeffers, of the Gold Coast, read from a prepared statement: "Schapelle has no ill feelings against the Indonesian people. The only animosity she feels is to the people who put the drugs in her bag. Schapelle and family thank all who have supported her and we ask that you continue your support and prayers. "Schapelle is a fighter. We may have lost this round but we will continue to fight until an innocent girl is set free to live and enjoy her life. "President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, when Indonesia was struck by the tsunami, Australia gave aid. Nine Australians gave the ultimate, their lives, when their helicopter crashed on Nias island helping Indonesia. "Australia and Indonesia have become good friends. For a friendship to grow there must be giving from both friends. Mr President, we have seen enough innocent lives wasted in the past year. "Please sir, let's not waste another innocent life. All Australia ask is that you give Schapelle back to us. Schapelle tidak bersalah. Schapelle is innocent." And outside court Mercedes, her sister, also read from a statement, first in English then in Indonesian, her voice at times reaching a scream as she struggled to cope with the events which had just transpired in the Denpasar District Court. "To all our family and friends, we love you all. Schapelle is innocent. This verdict is unjust. The case now enters a new phase and we will stand by Schapelle every step of the way. Our lawyers have done their best . . . Schapelle will be coming home. I don't even know why we had a bloody trial, they didn't take any of our witnesses into account," she said. And fighting back tears, Ron Bakir, Corby's Gold Coast financial backer, who stood against the back wall for the verdict, described the case as a "massive injustice". "We won't stop. I will bring this girl home if it's the last thing I do, or the last thing any of our team does," he said. "We are gonna bring this girl home. This is a massive injustice. This is supposed to be a justice system. Where is the justice? What is the Australian Government going to do now? What is the Australian Government going to do now?"