Very interesting piece of information RE lophophora spp.

[ace1928]

Found some really crucial info about button cactus. Not sure of many people who know of this. Not that any of us would ever ingest anything like that, but it is interesting info. Paragraph below

Lophophora roots (not the green part of the plant above ground) are highly alkaline and are known to harbor Clostridium botulinum bacteria and should not be used for human consumption, not that any of the members on these forums would ingest any such plant, and have been found to contain botulinum toxin in nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lophophora

There is also a case of botulinum poisoning occurring, potentially relating to living bacteria in the root, amongst members of the Native American Church who consumed peyote during an official ceremony.
Although in this case there is not 100% conclusive evidence of the bacteria and the toxin being present in the living cactus before preparation, there was found to be definite living bacteria and toxins produced during the production of their traditional sacrament.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199807163390316

Definitely a very interesting tidbit and perhaps something to look out for in other species of plants that also live in potentially anaerobic, alkaline conditions in soil.

Imagine growing some yummy potatos or carrots in highly alkaline soil that was densely packed and kept reasonably moist. Potentially dangerous based on the above statements.

Enjoy

[FancyPants]

Synchronicity I just read that this morning actually when reading up loph flowering.

Maybe I'm being a bit overoptimistic (lmao) but if the roots become a source for botox, then maybe there'll be a lot cultivated... you don't see cows going extinct anytime soon.

If bald eagles tasted like chicken they wouldn't be endangered.

[ace1928]

Hahaha definitely a bit optimistic there

Easier to just culture the bacteria in the anaerobic conditions

I honestly wonder how many people have died over the thousands of years of its traditional use due to the toxin, if any have. Shame it's not a particularly easy thing to figure out

[waterboy 2.0]

C.botulinum can be quite common in some environments....more common than many think. It can survive aerobic conditions.

Toxic strains only produce the evil under anaerobic conditions during spore forming. I'd be leaning towards contamination and then multiplicaton during storage.....many people have poisoned themselves and family with poorly preserved home preserving.

The ceremonial tea the patients had drunk was made from buttons of the dried, alkaline-ground peyote cactus, which had been covered with water and stored in a closed jar for two months under refrigeration. We believe that this prolonged, nontraditional storage of unsterilized peyote produced an anaerobic and alkaline environment that favored the growth and production of toxin from spores of Clostridium botulinum that were probably on the cactus.

EDIT - theres ya problem, and yeah it probably originated from the rhizosphere....but preparation and storage set it off

I'd be more concerned about weed laced with salmonella..

Edited November 6, 2014 by waterboy

[FancyPants]

<<< clearly NOT a science doowhatchamacallit.

Interesting!

Bleeeech on the 2month old stored in a jar of water (pre-internet??). That must've tasted fun... like the bedsheets at Charlie Sheen's house. I can see the MC of the night telling the other ceremony participants "no really! It's supposed to taste like that!" - cue nervous laughter.

I can't believe it's not mescaline!

[Auxin]

This myth of peyote roots being dangerous and lethal and poised to be the perpetrator of botulism or terrorism or moral corruption in whoever sees them surfaces every year. Something doesnt have to be inherently false to be a myth, a myth is a traditional story promulgated to spread someones belief or agenda.

Your more likely to get botulism from green beans, garlic, or chilli peppers but it can occur in nearly anything that was preserved improperly. However, some people who are understandably bothered by unethical harvesting of wild peyote purposefully exaggerate the implications of damaging wild peyote roots in order to get people to stop damaging them. The underlying sentiment is honorable, but their methods are unskillful.

If you lie to people to get your way, when they learn you were full of shit they rebel and believe nothing you say. Like the 'educators' who insist marijuana will give boys D cup breasts and will give girls lop sided hairy wookie tits and a beard.

When the victim learns the truth they assume everything the educator said about drugs is a lie and they proceed to smoke meth in a mcdonalds bathroom in rebellion.

The myth of peyote being a dangerous source of botulism will also fuel legislative efforts to suppress religious and social rights to peyote use because, lets face it, unlike teenagers when a politician hears something damning about drugs they rarely investigate to see if it is false.

So yeah, a case of botulism was supposedly linked to peyote use. Hundreds, nay thousands, of cases are linked to green beans and garlic.

Should we ban green beans to prevent terrorism? Should the italians have to edit the bible to get religious allowances to use their dangerous garlic and if they share garlic with the french should they be imprisoned for ten years, or twenty? And what about the thais? They just fucking stuff fish in a sealed jar and let it rot for 6 months before eating it, and thats explicitly against their religion. Millions of thais! Thats like a terror network right there man.

The moral from any botulism case is simple: Learn to preserve food, any food, properly.

[AZS]