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Bretloth

Origin stories

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I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread for the origins and histories of all the named clones getting around so we can keep track of them all. Having the histories, reasoning for the names, characteristics that make each special and if people post pics so we can all see what they look like, the differences etc it would be a great help I think, especially for the hip pocket.

For instance i've got a pachanoi 'alf' and '2', wouldn't have a clue about their story, if they have special qualities etc except they came from sab and are named.

I think we need more reference material so we all know what the hell everyone is on about and can make more informed decisions when buying, selling and breeding.

Please post if you know the details about all these different 'named' clones getting around, cheers!

Edited by Bretloth
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I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread for the origins and histories of all the named clones getting around so we can keep track of them all. Having the histories, reasoning for the names, characteristics that make each special and if people post pics so we can all see what they look like, the differences etc it would be a great help I think, especially for the hip pocket.

This reflects an interesting concept, while some people I know are removing their tags and disregarding names and collection data. One person also commented to me that after several years many clones that initially appeared distinct grew so identical looking that they were hard to discern.

Several interesting clones are emerging that are of hybrid origin, I know that I make selections for specific traits out of hybrid stock, I tend to favor fast growth rates. Some of my favorite plants are hybrids of pach, per and bri or all three.

I used to keep a single notebook with all my plant data, names, origin of clone, growth rates over time etc, but over the years I stopped doing this.

Now in regard to buying, selling and breeding, this is very interesting. Breeding in particular benefits from knowledge of ancestry, however buying and selling are arguably only affected by repute, as opposed to origin information. People want clones that are well known and popular, but knowing the name and source of a clone does not give that much information, nor does it change anything about the cactus. It is sort of in the mind of the buyer and seller alone, as to the value of identity, many sellers want to use data as a sales point for hype, some argue authenticity to an absurd degree, while totally ignoring efficacy... but collection data does not affect efficacy.

One trend that seems to be occurring in some collections is that the less desirable plants are getting phased out, that is to say that people who are disregarding names and origins are also removing the less desirable plants from their collections.

I think we need more reference material so we all know what the hell everyone is on about and can make more informed decisions when buying, selling and breeding.

Please post if you know the details about all these different 'named' clones getting around, cheers!

 

SS01 was found in a yard, it is a peruvianoid plant with a prostrate growth tendency when larger.

SS02 Wad found/sourced from a private collection put together by a man named Gay, it is a somewhat unique bridgesioid.

Both of these are clones that have been used in extensive breeding in the USA.

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Some clones are named ppl just to keep track of them in their own collection, i and i assume many others have plants in their collections that are named for no other reason than this therefore being a named clone does not always imply there is something special about it.

Anyways, in MY collection i have the following -

Psycho0, T. bridgesii, Clone originates from Cactus country victoria. Named Psycho0 by sab member incognito in memory of his friend and sab member Psycho0. In my collection is the fastest growing tricho, flowers easily, i have used it a lot in hybridisation.

Yowie, T. pachanoi. Clone originates in Yarrawonga Victoria although other large plants of the same type are found throughout Au as it is easily identified due to its distinct double downward pointing spines. I was directed to the mother plant of this clone by sab member Marsha, previously known as Yowie. This clone is also in the Fields collection and is one of the plants imported from South America.

Super pedro aka lance aka cordobensis, T. scop or pachanoid, Clone originates from cactus country victoria, is said to be fairly common in SAust also. Named super pedro by owner of cactus country due to its size and growth.

Eileen, T bridgesii, originates from colac victoria. Named after sab member reshroomED's mother. Clone prized by many ppl as a fast growing, disease resistant and beautiful

Bruce, T bridgesii, originates from South Australia, im not sure on the naming of this one but im sure one of the SA crew will know more. For me this clone shape shifts or "melts" quiet a bit, is a very nice clone due to this imo.

J1, J2, J3, JB, The first three of these plants are hard to ID with any certainty, J1 is a large peruvianoid or sorts, J2 seems pachanoid and J3 peruvianoid, Jb is a bridgesii closely resembling Eileen. All 4 clones hail from cactus country Victoria. I named these clones as to keep track of them in the collection and due to the fact i had used them in hybridisation and a name is needed for the parent plants.

Bogan, T. macrogonus?, originates from Tasmania. Mother plant was discovered by sab member Dug and later on rescued from "bogans" who were trying to burn it to dispose of it, hence the name. For me is a slower growing tricho yet a very striking plant visually, very different spines on it.

Rosei #1 & 2, T. peruvianus, originates from Fields cactus collection Victoria. Rosei was once a name given to Trichocereus peruvianus as to save confusion with cereus peruvianus and it was obviously in use when Fields recieved the cuttings from South America and the name Rosei is still used by his son. Rosei1 has much shorter spines than rosei2 and is often more blue, it is one of the most beautiful trichos here in Au i believe although the up and coming icaro seedling army will put more blue into the aussie tricho scene.

MBN95 aka Super bridge, T. bridgesii, originates from Magic botanicals nursery, now defunct im pretty sure (Im not sure if that name is correct, anyone know for sure??) This clone to me is very similar to bruce, it morphs and melts a lot but doesnt seem to grow as fast for me as bruce does though this could be due to the position in the garden i have the plants.

Sausage plant, T. pachanoid OR macrogonus (depends who you ask) Originates in South Aust although there is a large "clump" of it at Fields and is said to be on of the imports from St Am. Named due to its growth habits, it self terminates at the tip an usually pups from the terminated tip giving a sausage type look to it.

Now some in my collection, a few others have these clones also -

Essendon, T. bridgesii, I found this plant at Essendon nursery Melbourne Vic. Is a seed grown plant, often throws 4 ribbed branches. I named this plant to keep track of it in the collection, the story behind its discovery was another reason fro keeping track of it ;)

Crazy spine, T. bridgesoid, Plant was found in a large planting of "Psycho0" at cactus country Victoria, as afar as we could see it was a seedling that sprouted up in amongst the psycho0 so obviously a hybrid thereof. As the name implies it has very different spines which are often curved and bent

Glenrowan, T. bridgesii, originates from private collection Glenrowan victoria. Is probably my favourite bridgie, grows short spines to almost spineless.

Short spined bridgesii, T bridgesoid. This plant was found growing along side "crazy spine" so again obviously a psycho0 hybrid. Resembles a bridgesii but has very short, thick spines, has a growth rate close to psycho0. Originally it was thought that this plant was a branch of psycho0 that had short spines, a sport. On further investigation, ie, i had a good look :P I saw that the plant wasnt growing out of the psycho0 branch it was coming from underneath even though it looked connected. The only explanation was a seedling from fallen fruit.

Bendigo, T. bridgesii, originates from Bendigo Victoria. 2 huge old plants growing in the front yard of an old house in bendigo, similar looking to bruce although it doesnt disply the morphing that bruce does

Rod, T. pachanoi, Not sure on the origins of this one, i recieved it from sab member interbeing. Very fast growing pachanoi from what i have seen, my plant is small atm but im sure ill have lots in a short amount of time due to its growth rate, interesting clone.

Im sure there are some more, just dont have the time atm, busy busy. Will try add some more to this later on.

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Awesome!! Invaluable information!! Just as an example of how this helps me outside of breeding, I live close enough to some of these places to visit and the petrol will be way cheaper than getting them posted to me from the other side of the country. Particularliy in Aus as the entheogen online vendors are in qld, long way away. Had no idea 'lance' was 'super pedro', saves me getting both!

Here's some info i've gathered from Juicemonkey on the funky fungus stocks,

FF pach is 'etienne' pach named after the perth grower, appears to be backeberg pach.

FF bridgesii was from Mandurah public gardens in WA.

I know with Feilds he got most of his stock straight from Ritter but atleast his valida came from a bolivian pen pal who was a botanist who sent her son here with the seed and some others, i'm assuming bolivian varieties.

Cheers guys!! :)

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interesting question bretloth, im curious about other botanicals origins as well not just cactus. more i should say the history and pioneers of ethnobotany within australia, however the secretive bunch we are there is almost zero on the subject.

like catha edulis being used by this very government as a hedging plant for state housing in the 60's/70's....bloody gold stuff like that, i feel a lot of us so called modern dudes think we are creating history right now, with no regard that alot of the information we regard as groundbreaking personal ethnobotany has a rich history, we certainly are not the first ethno appreciaters in australia and of course im not saying that, seems though we dont pay much regard to our pre-decessors and rich history.

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For sure Santiago! I've got nothing but respect for the pioneers of entheogens in this country. Very appreciatted!! It's a large reason why I could never steal an entheogen from someones garden. And also might have a large reason to do with why i've never been refused a cutting ;) A bit of respect goes a long way.

Here's a great thread by PD on J1,2 and 3, with pics ~ http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23034

Here's some info on Aus clones with some pics http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23457&view=findpost&p=243818&hl=eileen&fromsearch=1

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http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=9617]

this thread has some information about different clones in horticultural circulation

I'd expect that more genetic diversity now exists in horticultural collection than exists outside of it, largely due to hybridization and global circulation.

Edited by Archaea

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Nice one Archaea! I'm working on getting more genetic diversity for my garden, part of the reason for the thread. Great to see so many people growing these plants and breeding them. Some awesome cacti getting around now, great work all the breeders out there!! Kudos!! B)

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Awesome thread.

bret>

For instance i've got a pachanoi 'alf' and '2', wouldn't have a clue about their story, if they have special qualities etc except they came from sab and are named.

"Alf" looks a lot like "Omar" [both pachanois, SAB], but Omar is very fast growing, probably not the same clone

as for "2" pachanoi, SAB, it is somewhat special in appearance, and MS Smith commented it was an intersting clone. maybe because the spines are thicker than usual for a pach?

I wonder if "Rod" PD mentioned is "Rob" from Sab.

So, "Rob" , so far it looks a lot like lance/cordeobensis/super pedro. I kept the tags and track of it so far, but I think it might be the same. IMO it's definately a scop/pach hybrid. [edit: someone, probably spacemonk said he found rob more puppy but less fatty]

"Jess" ROB is a bridgesii that does some morphing. Maybe it's the same as bruce? Bruce is not particularly fatty huh?

"Tig" [also SAB] is another bridgesii, probably the largest /fattest I got. From descriptions, it looks as if it resembles PsychO. Maybe it's the same?

Just got a 4-ribbed bridgesi, with confirmations of the traditional saying that 4 ribbers are special. Any idea what to name him?

keep up the nice job

Edited by mutant

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I wonder if "Rod" PD mentioned is "Rob" from Sab.

Nah Rod is a clone from interbieng different to all others i have, vigorous pupping.

Jess is different to bruce although i initially thought them very similar i now see the differences.

"Tig" [also SAB] is another bridgesii, probably the largest /fattest I got. From descriptions, it looks as if it resembles PsychO. Maybe it's the same?

Not the same as psycho0 from what i have seen.

Just got a 4-ribbed bridgesi

Its just a cool tricho trait that displays itself more often with bridgies ime. I have a 4 ribbed bruce, psycho0, essendon and glenrowan, prolly a couple others if i had a good look. I was surprised to see psycho0 go four ribs though.

Someone should do a poll as to how many people on SAB have Eileen.

Ya should do that but include other clones also, it would be interesting to see tha results

.

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thanks for prompt answer pal

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Great info guys! Cheers! Turns out i've had 'Eileen' for years and didn't know, cheers Rev lol* Thought it was Mandurah Bridge but after she got bigger the differences became noticable. :)

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As for te 4 ribber Mutant, i'd go with something Greek considering where you originate, how about Dionysus? :)

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I think it may also be useful for us to relate why we know they are this clone. Lots fo people call their plant "ABC" clone because they think it looks the same, but that is the only reason. Which obviously is flawed because there is zero certainty. I think we should also come clean on whether the clone is true from source or if we just assume it is such. no sense making the water cloudy with uncertainty.

This is the reason i mention this. All these pictures are of plants from a *single* cutting, so tehy are all clones of each other...just grown in different spots and have different looks...variables are endless with some plants.

pedro-1.jpg

graftin12.jpg

pedro1-1.jpg

pedro2-1.jpg

pedro3-1.jpg

pedro6.jpg

pedro5.jpg

pedro4-1.jpg

here is one clone i found in a cactus breeders nursery here in Taiwan. I have been slapping the name "Formosa" onto it to the very few i have passed out, not sure if the name stuck or not, but if you see a bridge like plant (it seems to be a hybrid) from taiwan with the name "Formosa" it is probably from these. But i have only given some cuts to local people so i really doubt its outside Taiwan, but never know :)

Here are some older pics when i got them (also posted at the nook at the time). "Bridgesii hybrid" 'Formosa'

trich7.jpg

trich1.jpg

trich4.jpg

trich2.jpg

trich3.jpg

2trich.jpg

trich5.jpg

trich6.jpg

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cheers Bret, not naming the 4 ribber for real - lets wait for the dude that sent it to me. If i were to name/tag it to keep track in the collection I would probably chose something related to the guy I that kindly shared this seemingly and reportedly special clone with me.

For the history, like every supposedly special clone, it seems 'black rot' positive. And so seems the 'true blue' fatty I got sent. I cant really prove it, but I sense that these two clones I am refering to are close to the essence of trichocerei 'magic'

and maybe the 'stress theory' is true and easily replicable

Kada, awesome input as always ... nice to see you rocking still. I found out that sober grafting might be better than greened one . which isnt really surpising . I will be happy to share photos with this lovely world ethno community after some years of growing different clones, if everything goes according to current plans.

man you should really give selinicerei a shot, at least for a first 'booster' stock. I told you before you -and your work- have been an inspiration for me multi-wise.

I know I sound ridiculous. I take the time and consciously decide I like the way I 'sound'. I am high after all.

why I think the rob/lance/super pedro/cordobensis clone is a scop X ?

cause when it pups , the pup's shape like a scop pup. simplistic I know. feels like the truth.

got to love recognition/taxonomy shit to get deep in this shitz.

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Nice one Kadakuda! That hybrid thing is very interesting, won't even attempt to id that. Mutant as for the stressing stuff, you maybe interested in few studies I posted in the chemistry section ;) I think super ped is definatly scop related, rough skin, club like and fat, stands to reason. Very true how named plants can look alot different, I've got two bridge 'achuma', both look totally different, still bridgesii, but nothing like each other, both are the same age, from the same vendor and grown in the exact same conditions.

post-9625-0-02530300-1309664580_thumb.jp

post-9625-0-04716100-1309664587_thumb.jp

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post-9625-0-02530300-1309664580_thumb.jpg

post-9625-0-04716100-1309664587_thumb.jpg

post-9625-0-45873100-1309664595_thumb.jpg

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gotta love variation eh? those plants look pretty cool.

man you should really give selinicerei a shot, at least for a first 'booster' stock. I told you before you -and your work- have been an inspiration for me multi-wise.

i do :) i have a bunch of arios on it now. but it is not a strong stock, hylo is sturdier which is why i tend to use it more...and for seedlings i often just puss out and use peresk, but sometimes i use seleni for seedlings too :) its a great stock, but not very strong.

and about sober grafting, i very much disagree. if anything i will compromise and admit grafting the important things first is a wise decision :)

on a related note, here are the TBM crest flower starters i posted on the nook in case people here are not members there. fingers crossed. this is from MItosis and i think he got it from SS, but not sure. Mutant bro, these were grafted after a good lot of beer, and they turned out ok...just like homers kids. if grafting drunk makes mutated penises grow pubic hair out the end, i cannot think of any better way to grow plants.

tbmflr1.jpg

tbmflr2.jpg

tbmflr3.jpg

tbmflr4.jpg

tbmflr5.jpg

tbmflr6.jpg

tbmflr7.jpg

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LOL maybe you're right, after all I've only grafted a couple of stuff sober, but I still think alcoholic grafting would not be my thing. I tend to be more energetic and social with alcohol, so maybe next stage is grafting drunk but with someone to talk to at the same time.

as for selini, you're probably right on this too.

IME, selini can get overwatered more easily than hylo, and it's boosting period might not be as long as hylo. But I find it super easy to graft on and am having awesome rates , so...

btw this is the melted was bridge?? awesome!!! what is it grafted on?

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that could be right about solo drunk grafting. I usually have my wife with me. but if i am grafting in the am there is just a 1/2 naked white guy in a greenhouse with led zepplin and frogs.

You get hylo splits a lot? i find the opposite because seleni hydrates so full, i would say 70% of all my seleni grafts split, and under 5% of my hylo grafts. Acanthocereus beats both hands down, but is a nightmare to graft with (especially drunk). see google for spine shots of those guys.

Those pics are crested TBM form mitosis. they definitely are crest, and soemtimes pup out a "normal" penis. anything rare and important i dont risk and use myrtle...it is my fail safe for grating cause they are so successful and grow very fast.

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Here's some info i've gathered from Juicemonkey on the funky fungus stocks,

FF pach is 'etienne' pach named after the perth grower, appears to be backeberg pach.

FF bridgesii was from Mandurah public gardens in WA.

 

so the bridge from the Mandurah gardens is the FF mother? This one?>

post-4590-0-01048100-1315542965_thumb.jp

is REV still around?

post-4590-0-01048100-1315542965_thumb.jpg

post-4590-0-01048100-1315542965_thumb.jpg

Edited by Bush Turkey

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Sweet! Always nice to have a shot of the mother plant, cheers :)

Not sure if he's on the forums much anymore, still on fb though.

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The origin and naming process of Australian Trichocereus clones is something I am very interested in, this thread should be a sticky with the J1 J2 J3 and the T cordobensis thread imo.

the links I am talking about are attached in this thread

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=32131

Edited by Stillman

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Wha??? Super Pedro IS lance ?? I very much doubt it. Can t elaborate ? Where did u get lance from mate ?? I'm pretty sure pd's super ped is in Vic. They look (to me) NOTHING alike.

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never mind I am not making sense lol

Edited by Stillman

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