divinorum hybrid-venulosa

[Thelema]

Hi I had this going when my SD plants were still alive and it was my goal to try and create a hybrid. The closest I got in my search for the most genetically-closest plant was Salvia cyanacea, but I could see this was not going to happen ituitively. Now scientists last year using phylogenetic DNA analysis have shown that the closest salvia to divinorum is Salvia Venulosa.

Is there any Venulosa growing in OZ in is anyine working on a hybrid?

PS venulosa would be the first avenue to "smoke" as well.

Edited March 28, 2011 by Huichol_Eyebrow

[CβL]

Excuse my ignorance, but have any genetic studies been done comparing Salvia Divinorum with Coleus spp.? I remember the Mazatec legends said that a Coleus blumei was the male and Salvia D. was the female. I wonder if this is anymore more than baseless legend.

[Torsten]

From memory Coleus blumei isn't even a south american plant. There is a very detailed thread about this issue on this forum [sorry, no time to look for it].

[Gunter]

Excuse my ignorance, but have any genetic studies been done comparing Salvia Divinorum with Coleus spp.? I remember the Mazatec legends said that a Coleus blumei was the male and Salvia D. was the female. I wonder if this is anymore more than baseless legend.

 

I had read something about this to the effect that it was baseless legend

[Magicdirt]

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Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt

[Gunter]

i read, i think in the ER, that some explorers had noted that a shaman was growing coleus, which was purchased in a market, but that they were growing them as ornamental plants, the shaman, not knowing that western people knew anything about plants commented on the plants Salvia and Coleus being related as that they are in the same plant family, those comments were misconstrued and extrapolated to infer use, use which does not occur and is unsubstantiated, although the rumors have snowballed (so to speak) into a tremendous pile of misinformation and misconception about the activity of Coleus.

Coleus has been widely experimented with and is in no way shape or form active in any manner akin to Salvia d, it is not active and is not used by any tribe or group for any shamanic or visionary purpose. if you don't believe me try it, it is legal everywhere and is widespread, all reports of it sound like placebo or inactive, there is no market for it as an active because it has not been demonstrated to be reliably active or in any way akin to Salvia, Salvia as we know is extremely strong and does not give rise to inactive reports time and time again, coleus however does produce numerous reports of it lacking activity, because it is not active.

The curandero also had several horticultural specimens of Coleus spp. growing near his house. Wasson has noted that the Mazatecs believe Coleus to be a medicinal or hallucinogenic herb related to S. divinorum (Wasson, 1962). However, Don Alejandro said the plants were not medicinal and his daughter had bought them at the market because they were pretty.

http://www.jcrows.com/ValdesSalvia.html

[Halcyon Daze]

Now scientists last year using phylogenetic DNA analysis have shown that the closest salvia to divinorum is Salvia Venulosa.

 

Cool. Got a source for this info, I'd like to know more.

[Halcyon Daze]

Ok I found the source and was able to download the full text through my Uni database, SWEEEEET! Very nice paper and nice bibli too.

From the paper it is clear that Salvia divinorum is definitely a species not a hybrid and yes it's definitely closely related to S. venulosa (very close) with significant morhpological similarites,

"There are a number of morphological similarities between Salvia divinorum

and S. venulosa, strikingly resembling each other morphologically, and most significantly

in floral reproductive structures."

But...

"Salvia venulosa is a very local endemic, known from

only three locations found in deeply shaded, moist ravines

in the westernmost cordillera of the Colombian Andes in

the district of Risaralda from 1,500 to 2,000 m elevation. It

is of interest that no other Colombian natives are reported

to grow in this north-westernmost extension of the

Colombian Andes (Wood and Harley 1988)."

You may have to go on an expedition (or contact the authors).

Ecologically, man-made hybrids are not wise, and by the sounds of it a hybrid would probably not result in much of an obvious difference, (other than a red or reddish flowered 'Sally' which would be better off back-crossed anyway).

I like the idea of a hybrid as a curiosity but I'd say the future lies in line-breeding with the wild gened that still exist.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Halcyon Daze

[Thelema]

Ummmm....apart from the fact that a hybrid would be legal to grow in Australia.

[Halcyon Daze]

Good point. I wonder how the law works with hybrids anyway. And I wonder if they'd eventually just tweak the law to stamp it out. Divinorum is a damn nice garden plant, it's a shame one cannot freely grow it anymore. A garden full of lush hybrid sally would be pretty flippin sweet. :D

[Paradoxical]

What is the name of the journal, and the title of the paper please. I'd like to have a look too

[sapito]

believe this is it

evolution and origins of the mazatec hallucinogenic sage.pdf

evolution and origins of the mazatec hallucinogenic sage.pdf

evolution and origins of the mazatec hallucinogenic sage.pdf

[vual]

sounds promising, now it just has to be sourced and imported so cuttings can be handed out

Some needs to take a trip to south america..... Any sponsors ?

[Paradoxical]

believe this is it

evolution and origins of the mazatec hallucinogenic sage.pdf

 

thanks for that!

[Sola]

Thanks heaps for the pdf I'm going to read it now.

Salvia venulosa sounds like a very interesting plant indeed, I'd love to get a specimen. I have a friend in South America atm.

Where exactly would one find this plant, or are we talking trekking through the rainforest in search of a plant they'll think looks like everything else?