Quetzalt Posted March 27, 2011 Hi, I'm very happy with Shamanic Plant's Seeds and cuttings. Had lost hope on the seeds as I know that they loose viability very fast like Caapi, was somehow out of season, they looked a bit old, dried but not britle + after 2 months there was nothing... Last time I checked 3 month after potting in coco/ moist paper/ vermiculite (diferent methods) 4 out of 10 had poped up (and have 2 more now) Now there are maybe 50 species of Diplopterys and looking at the taxonomy I still have my douts its Cabrerana... SP's pauciflora seeds mother plant seems more like the Cabrerana but it can't be for the seeds are suposed to be more winged. The one I have (winged seeds) have elongated leaves and looks like Pauciflora. What seems to me is that SP's Cabrerana seeds are Pauciflora and that the Pauciflora ones are yet another species. It looks like Cabrerana seeds are even more winged... What do you think? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaka Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Irie, I think it's worthy of deeper investigation. Here's a list of diplopterys that you could investigate, if ya got the time.. * Diplopterys amplectens (B.Gates) W.R.Anderson & C.Davis[3] * Diplopterys araujei (Schwacke ex Nied.) Nied.[4] * Diplopterys bahiana * Diplopterys bracteosa * Diplopterys cabrerana (Cuatrec.) B.Gates[1] * Diplopterys cachimbensis * Diplopterys caduciflora * Diplopterys carvalhoi * Diplopterys cristata * Diplopterys cururensis * Diplopterys cururuensis * Diplopterys erianthera * Diplopterys heterostyla * Diplopterys hypericifolia * Diplopterys includens * Diplopterys involuta * Diplopterys involuta var. ovata * Diplopterys krukoffii * Diplopterys leiocarpa * Diplopterys longialata (Nied.) W. R. Anderson & C. Davis[5] * Diplopterys lucida * Diplopterys lutea * Diplopterys marsballiana * Diplopterys marshalliana * Diplopterys mexicana [1] * Diplopterys microcarpa * Diplopterys nigrescens * Diplopterys nutans * Diplopterys paralias * Diplopterys paralias var. latifolia * Diplopterys patula * Diplopterys pauciflora * Diplopterys pauciflora var. latifolia * Diplopterys peruviana * Diplopterys platyptera * Diplopterys populifolia * Diplopterys pubipetala * Diplopterys riparia * Diplopterys rondoniensis * Diplopterys rosea * Diplopterys schunkei * Diplopterys sepium * Diplopterys spruceana * Diplopterys uleana * Diplopterys valvata * Diplopterys virgultosa * Diplopterys woytkowskii More info Respect, Z Edited March 27, 2011 by Zaka Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 27, 2011 (edited) Hey Quetzalt, I suspect there may be more then one active Diplopterys species as Trout has reference to the possibility of more then one species being employed in the preparation of Ayahuasca. I would also expect that the seeds will result in active chaliponga leaf material so if this your purpose for growing the seeds then there is no great lose even if it turns out to be another species. "Other Diplopterys employed The Siona are familiar with P. viridis which is used by their neighbors the Kofan but use it only occasionally. They normally use D. cabrerana. Two major classes of yajé agua are differentiated (by the Siona) based on their leaf size. One may prove to be another species of Diplopterys but more field work is needed. yajé agua de pájaro: smaller of the two, yajé agua de jaguar: the larger of the two. Langdon 1986" Link Where are you located? And is the cutting leaf shape similar to that of the seedling leaves, as the leaf shape could change as they mature? Edited March 28, 2011 by rahli Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zelly Posted March 27, 2011 Quetzalt- Some people are reporting greater germination rates of these seeds by soaking them for 24 hrs in GA3 @ 650-700 ppm. Un-treated seeds have taken up to 5 months to sprout. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quetzalt Posted March 27, 2011 Well, the cutting is the last picture with the more established plant. Lost all its leaves at arrival but came back to life. The Seedlings look the same. I'm in Europe. The reference to the 2 Yajés (àgua pajaro/ Jaguar) might be different Caapi Plants though. The combination between the 2 which include variants within the species is already immense and when you think that the second one (the light) can be a different species alltogether (i.e. Mimosa/ Psychotria) and that a variety of other plants are also added for different pusposes we quickly amount to the variations present in a game of Go These seeds are the closest I ever saw to the multiple winged Cabrerana but the leaves dont mach (looks like Pauciflora). However, I have no doubts this species is in fact active and used. There were older posts confusing Psychotria and Diplopterys (or other Malpighiaceae for that matter)... I think the work to be undertaken on the diversity of Diplopterys also applies to the Psychotrias. I really wander how the different amazon ethnic groups managed to cope with the identification and use of so many variants... Maybe after finding one that worked they would just stick to it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quetzalt Posted March 27, 2011 Thanks Zelly, good to know. I wont forget it when I get another bach in the future. I find it quite difficult to control mold with long germinating periods... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 27, 2011 Yes I guess it does get very confusing given the large number of plants used by many different groups over such a large areas. This is addressed in the link I have provided above where it is stated that the name yage agua is used in reference to Diplopterys cadrerana among other genus of plants. "Diplopterys cabrerana has also been reported with many common names, including: amarrón chagropanga, chagrupanga, ayahuasca, cajé-uco, cají-uco chacruna, chagro-panga, chagrupanga, me-ne-ka-heé-ma, mené-kahi-ma, nyoko-buku-guda-hubea-ma, oco yagé, oco-yajé, oko -yajé, yaco-ayahuasco, yagé, yageúco, yajé and yajé agua. [Caution: Be aware that yajé agua has several classes that are recognized by the Siona; one of the minor classes is Brunfelsia rather than Diplopterys.]" Best of luck growing your little chali's up and I'm hoping they brew strong and true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaka Posted March 27, 2011 Irie, I sent some mature leaves of this vine off to a partner at a lab, but haven't heard back from him yet!! I'll take some photos of some of the mature leaves for ya tomorrow.... I was looking at some leaves I've dried & there is a noticeable fur on the leaf... As for mold, I dust the seeds with rooting powder....before resting on a bed of verm... As for Caapi having a short germ window??? I got some black Caapi seeds that are still sending sprout after 175+ days!! Respect, Z Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 28, 2011 Hey Zaka, were the leaves sent to the lab grown from the seeds supplied by shamanic plants? I have purchased the same seeds and would be very interested in hearing the outcome when your friend comes through with the results. I sowed my seed wing facing up-down with the top wing out on some and just covered on others into a mix of premium potting mix, coco coir and coarse river sand. According to my mate who is currently raising them, 7 have germinated in around 2 months out of around 30 planted and they are doing well in the currently wet monsoon tropics. I am also interested to know how old the leaf material was when sent to the lab? Thanks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaka Posted March 28, 2011 Irie, Yeah mon! Same seeds! I got mine about a year before most! Not sure how these photos came out as my usual camera is down! Here's a typical Caapi (Cielo) strain......For comparison. Respect, Z 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 28, 2011 Zaka- Did your chaliponga plants display the narrow leaf characteristic during their seedling stage as shown in the first post? Thanks for the photos and info guys. I can't wait to get home and see mine in the real. I'm hoping I can add a few photos to the thread once back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaka Posted March 28, 2011 Irie, Here's a seedling shot! Respect, Z 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted March 28, 2011 Alright, i just ordered me some GA-3 for the Diplopterys seed as well as to test some of knizes old seed. I hope i dont get tits or little bumps on the sack from handling this stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quetzalt Posted March 28, 2011 Ok, Zaka's seedlind look like mine... I never imagined the leave's shape would change that much... So in the end it might really be D.Cabrerana lol. Even though I still think the seed looks like Pauciflora:) Anyway I'm glad to see more people arround D.C. There was a time when it was one of the holly grails. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 28, 2011 Anyway I'm glad to see more people arround D.C. There was a time when it was one of the holly grails. Thanks again friend Edgar (shamanic plants). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaka Posted March 29, 2011 Ok, Zaka's seedlind look like mine... I never imagined the leave's shape would change that much... So in the end it might really be D.Cabrerana lol. Even though I still think the seed looks like Pauciflora:) Anyway I'm glad to see more people arround D.C. There was a time when it was one of the holly grails. Irie, I believe he has pauciflora as well! The wing are definitely singular in arrangement, compared with the ruffles of these seeds. Thanks again friend Edgar (shamanic plants). Indeed! He took a good bit of flack starting out! As you can imagine! But he's seemed to have been a god send to the community! Respect, Z Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 29, 2011 My mate took a couple of photos of the Chaliponga seedlings and sent them through the telling fone. He reckons the leaves are progressively getting wider with each set and they are covered with a fine layer of hairs. Here are the pics - Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zaka Posted March 29, 2011 Irie, they are covered with a fine layer of hairs. The furriness on the leaf, persists on to the mature leaf. It's quite different to the silveryness that is seen on Caapi's new growth. I think I read something about it in the info link I put above!? Respect, Z Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
planthelper Posted March 29, 2011 Alright, i just ordered me some GA-3 for the Diplopterys seed as well as to test some of knizes old seed. I hope i dont get tits or little bumps on the sack from handling this stuff. i think you raise a good point there, and i always wondered about the dangers of gibberellic acid. if the stuff is in liquid form, i think it's much safer, than the powder. when i use the powder, i make sure i never breath any of the dust in. i always avoid spills and keep the area where i work with the hormone clean. when not in use, i make sure all the powder is stored safly. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Evil Genius Posted March 30, 2011 Absolutely. I got the powdered GA-3 yesterday and i only handle this stuff with gloves and shit. No way im gonna breath this shit in...i keep my breath till i pass out when using it. Also no way i put the water in a watersprayer because i dont want to breath in the water dust. I read the Safety Sheet of the chemical and i dont think it causes cancer but you never know. Same with the rizopone rooting poweder that is around. Natural hormones are not that dangerous concerning cancer in my eyes but they are still hormones and you dont want that stuff in your system. Btw, look what i found here. Its a school experiment site talking about phytohormones and their use. Its written in german but the pics speak for themselves i think. Planthelper might have some use for them...sorry if others dont understand that much. http://www.versuchschemie.de/hartmut.php?t=11774&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0 Second link is a site about how to make your own Rooting hormones http://hanfclub.hanf.ws/forum/newgrowbookde/67583-wissen--rhizopon-bewurzelungspulver-herstellen.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
