Torsten Posted March 11, 2011 I've been using dragonsblood on external wounds and abrasions for years. It's traditional claim as a wound cleanser, protectant and healing accelerator is well backed by scientific research. But with my last bulk purchase for koda phytorium stock I noticed that it is now also offered overseas for internal use for pretty much any condition that involves injury and inflammation of the GI tract, including things like peptic ulcers, crohns, colitis, and in particular treatment resistant and unidentified problems. In fact it seems to be highly effective for even simple diarrhoea. So I took a size 0 capsule full [maybe 0.3ml] of the pure resin last night to see if it helps with my autoimmune 'colitis'. While 24h is too soon to discount coincidence, the result today was nothing short of amazing. I am now very curious if anyone else has tried dragonsblood internally and at what dosage. I actually think I took too much. It seemed to have a weird effect on my gastric lining for a few hours and I've had this slightly odd feeling inside for much of the day. Can't quite define exactly what I felt - maybe an 'unease'. Not a bad trade off for what I usually feel which is outright pain. This could be just an adjustment, but I feel that half that dose is probably plenty. Traditional use starts at a recommended use of 3 drops several times a day, but goes right up to 2ml/day. Given the severity and treatment resistance of my condition I generally dose close to the upper end these days. Probably not needed in this case. edit: caution. it appears dragonsblood is extremely powerful. the dosage noted above can cause problems under certain circumstances. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CβL Posted March 12, 2011 First of all - I have not tried dragonsblood. But, I'm just wondering what your current diet mostly consists of? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 12, 2011 Ryebread, goat dairy, fruit & veg [when I can tolerate it], meat. It's not the diet as I've been on many different ones and have had strict elimination diets over the years. There are other threads that go into this in detail. I responded well to fluoroquinolone antibiotics and to high dose prednisone [both of which I took for a year each - consecutively]. It appears dragonsblood competes well with both. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CβL Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) Okay. I did a quick search, but I could not find if you had tried a comprehensive low carbohydrate (with high lipid content) diet for over 2 weeks? I'm pretty sure it was Crohn's that was found to be mostly remediated by a low carbohydate diet. Lastly, have you tried a high Glutamine diet (or even supplements)? This diet (which basically entirely overlaps with low carbohydrate) is supposedly extremely good for GI health. Consequently, any foods which interfere with glutamine absorption should be lessened too. The type of diet I'm wondering if you've tried is: - Eggs - Chicken - Cheese (all the cheese, assuming you're not intolerant to dairy) - Fish (try to avoid farmed fish, as their omega FA content is inferior to ocean fish [side effect of them being fed on grains]) - Lettuce (substantial amounts) - Spinach (substantial amounts, and raw) - Olive oil (and olives) - Avocado (half a day or so) - Almonds and Peanuts (salted is fine) (once a day or more for each, other nuts are suitable, but are far lower in protein, and much higher in carbos) - Cucumber - Tomato (average 1 a day) - Beef (1-2 times a week, and not cooked to death) - Small amounts of bacteria rich yoghurt (kefir) each day or so - Some kind of antioxidant tea if you'd like, such as redbush tea (caffeine not recommended) - L-Glutamine supplement taken between meals If you have tried this, and given it a really good go with an open and extremely hopeful attitude (with anaerobic exercise), and it didn't do anything after 2-3 weeks. Well then I'm sorry I made you read this. But I honestly believe that this diet would at the very least, provide some decent relief. Edited March 12, 2011 by bluntmuffin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Magicdirt Posted March 12, 2011 (edited) ` Edited May 8, 2011 by Magicdirt Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 12, 2011 I think this thread is missing the point. I've tried the diets, the kefir, the glutamine, the blood type [which by the way has been the most successfull - meat & salads]. I am highly allergic to dairy, soy, wheat, barley. Somewhat allergic to rice and about 15 other food groups. So diets are not that easy. Glutamine works great, but only at high doses where it also gives me severe anxiety. Have worked with dieticians, naturopaths, TCM, immunologists, gastro enterologists, etc. At the end of the line with all of them, but have a few experimental procedures lined up, which need to be in a certain order. Autoimmune conditions run in my family and are related to T and B cell problems it seems. Modifying T cell activity seems to be working well, but is cumbersome. anyway, this was NOT supposed to be another thread about diets etc otherwise I would have posted this in one of the existing threads on the topic [to avoid going through the same replies again]. This thread was supposed to be about Croton lechleri as it is quite an amazing plant. Those people who know about its external use will never go back to other ointments so I've always held it in quite high regard. I just had no idea it could also be used internally. benefits are still going strong on 3rd day so this is definitely no coincidence. Dose is just 0.2ml in a capsule on empty tummy and washed down with plenty of water. No 'unease' at this dosage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WoodDragon Posted March 13, 2011 I'd not heard about Croton lechleri previously Torsten, so I'm fascinated to read some of the peer-reviewed literature on it. My obvious question is, is there any growing in Australia? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 13, 2011 yes, the literature is quite interesting and goes back quite a bit. I am a bit puzzled why some sites claim it could be dangeorus in large amounts. Even fatal. I mean, sure, everything is fatal at the wrong dose, but what justification is there in this case and what is an overdose. I might have to take this for a long time, so might as well start covering all angles. I tried to get some seeds a few years ago, but only got dead ends so gave up. Have very different contacts these days so might try again. Fresh sap might be nicer than the stuff we buy as the commercial stuff is quite obviously fermented to some degree. It smells like off beer. I stick mine into flavoured capsules just before swallowing, so this eliminates any unpleasantness, but I know there are also powdered products available. general concensus is they are not as good, but at this price I don't think it would matter if I had to take 10 times as much of the powder for the same effect. Somethign to work on in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 13, 2011 I had 0.25ml today and this resulted in some problems. I had it on empty tummy and didn't eat for 5 hours [fell asleep]. when I ate a small dinner it just sat there and wasn't being digested. been struggling with mild to moderate nausea for the last 4 hours. All this could obviously be unrelated, but I thought I'd better warn others in case they were copying my dosage. I already had the feeling with my first dose that this stuff extends transit time considerably. So I skipped a day, then took it two days in a row at reduced dose. It was the last dose that caused the problems. My guess is that the following protocol would help: * take on empty tummy, but eat within half an hour or so. * two or three smaller doses are probably better than a single dose. * do not exceed 0.2ml per dose and probably also per day. * for the meal following a dose eat about half of your normal intake and make it very light food. * do not take before sleep as it seems to have a mild aggravating effect. * seems to cause a bit of grumpiness for about an hour or two after dosing, so time appropriately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
t st tantra Posted March 20, 2011 when i first saw you talking about croton i assumed it was following on from the low dose naltrexone. do you think the aporphines may be helping too? t s t . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted March 27, 2011 Our friend shamanic plants supplies these seeds in his shop, though currently out of stock. http://www.kiwiboancaya.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=37&product_id=88 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 27, 2011 very awesome rahli. thanks. I should also add that there has been a bit of a development. Turns out the dragonsblood is only partially responsible for my sudden recovery. On at least equal footing appears to be chocolate. I had not considered this at the time because I was only eating 50g/day and did not think this could have that much of an effect [only oticed it when the chocolate ran out]. The chocolate I use consists of only cocoa beans (70%) and a little sugar [no other fats, oils, emulsifiers, soy, etc]. As I have never had such benefits from cocoa powder I must assume the benefit is from the cocoa butter component, but will test this in more detail in the future. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hebrew Posted March 28, 2011 torsten, when i have a chance i will try and copy acoss some info about dragons blood you may find interesting especially as internal usage. used in chinese medicine. good herb, makes a good incense as well Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 29, 2011 There are lots of dragons blood, including some asian ones. However they are completely unrelated species and have completely different pharmacology. So please make sure that your chinese ref is about Croton or clearly identify the species [or at least genus] you are referring to as confusion could become dangerous. Croton doesn't seem to make a good incense. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hebrew Posted March 31, 2011 maybe when i say it makes a nice incense that is my opinion, i can see how it would be seen as a non incense plant, but in combination with other plants the smoke is good, as far as i am concerned, but it has been a while since i burnt any this is from a discussion with a herbalist i know i will put the bits i think may be of interest ---------------------------------------------------- (Croton Lechleri) Latex Amazonian tree of the genus Croton, especially C. lechleri, is called Dragon's blood or GRADO'S blood, it is used in traditional medicine since the time of ancient Amazonian tribes and in modern times it has been studied and has proven their medicinal properties as healer, thanks to its alkaloid content of Taspinar, and as antiviral, for the content of the principle SP-303, a Proanthocyanidins oligomers antiviral action. BENEFITS OF DRAGON'S BLOOD: DRAGON'S BLOOD for external use is useful for the treatment of stomach ulcers, gastric problems, skin inflammation and rheumatism. It is also used in the treatment against acne. Dragon's blood improve the defense level of the body. The Indians of Peru have used the red resin of this dragon's bloodd for the resolution of skin wounds and ulcers. Scientific researches made by University "Cayetano Heredia, Peru" and the School of Biological Sciences of Lima, were able to determine that the alkaloid Taspinar could be the main component, responsible of its healing properties. This alkaloid also demonstrated in in vitro tests, cytostatic activity compared with KB tumors and V-79. The resin has proven over several trials astringent properties useful in resolving diarrhea, ulcers and bleeding. For this reason it is used in the form of eye drops, mouthwash and tooth-paste. USE: 1.- Active healing The dragon´s blood stimulates the contraction of the wound, helps in the skin regeneration, quickly helping the formation of collagen. 2 .- Antibacterial and antiviral action Several researches stand the antiviral action of dragon´s blood, and mainly the SP-303. In vitro experiments showed that this inhibits Proanthocyanidins different DNA and RNA viruses, including herpes virus, hepatitis (A and , the influenza virus A and the parainfluenza virus. 3 .- active immunomodulatory The drago´s blood obtained from Croton lechleri shows through in vitro testing hemolíticos, a potent inhibitory activity of the classical and alternative routes of the complement system. However, the effect of the latex is greater than the Taspinar, who introduced inhibition on the classical pathway and shows no effect on the alternative route. Blood drago has a dual activity (antioxidant and prooxidant). 4 .- anti-inflammatory activity It is its first property why we use dragon´s blood. Its healing propertiesinternal and external. "Vaisberg and cabbage, 1989" describe the healing power of both the "Dragon's Blood" as the alkaloid Taspinar isolated in it, because the Taspinar induces cell migration into the wounded area. Take after breakfast and lunch from 3 to 5 drops diluted in half a glass of water ------------------------------------ i have to say, i am really liking this as a medicine. a friend has kept me in the liquid tree sap for a few weeks, and i do indeed, notice a difference. Body is taughter, and my skin psorasis/fungus is becoming much more dealable. And externally, it really zaps growths and fungus. really good stuff. i just use 15 drops 2 or 3 times a day. --------------------------------- I have a feeling that dragons blood and cats claw (fresh uncaria vine) would be a very good dieta for virals. -------------------------------- www.rain-tree.com/sangre.htm ------------------------------- i finally have had enouph dragon blood sap to use as a protocol- and wow- its healing my skin unlike anything else sofar. and i do notice that my hiv meds are working better too. i am darn sure almost, that this is a very promising HIV/AIDS plant therapy. ------------------------------ its very good for many female issues as well. ----------------------------- the hiv related skin condition is nearly gone altogether..... its been nearly 10 years since my skin was clear like this. So, i would definetly reccomend folks with hiv related symptoms to seriously check this medicine out. It does take some time to work...but seems to be very strong after the initial clearing is affected. ----------------------------- someones question 'm not quite understanding most of this research isn't for the oil but the actual resin correct? how does one take the DB resin internally and how does one topically apply the DB on a wound i.e. rub the powdered DB on a wound like goldenseal root? ------------------------------ properly speaking, it really is an oleo resin, or resinoid, hence the use of the word 'oil'. It is really resinoid of dragons blood. And thus, you can also swab it onto the body. its use in chinese liniments for repairing ruptured tissue is well documented. ------------------------------ you can make a resinoid with raw resin and ethanol. essentially, a tincture that has been well filtered, with the majority of the alcohol removed. essentially. It is a little different from fresh sap. ----------------------------- this is one person's experience with this herb, his own experiments with this plant take what you will from it, just thought it might offer some interesting reading on the plant i am not sure if it is the same dragons blood used in chinese medicine or a similar plant, i would have to look at the botanical and chinese names to find out, dont have time to do so. if it is the same as the chinese i can get this in large quantities, pretty cheap. not having read the thread completely just skimmed through it, this may have already been covered, or it may be knowledge you already know. i just add what i have learnt from the herbalist this commentary comes from VS Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
random Posted March 31, 2011 This plant is sounding more and more intrigueing, will be looking it up more too thanks to this thread and the possibilities it seems to hold for so many conditions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Torsten Posted March 31, 2011 Dragonsblood is produced from Croton, Dracaena, Daemonorops, Calamus and Pterocarpus. The croton form is the only one that is not used as incense as it is not aromatic. The others are usually produced as powders, but Croton is almost exclusively produced as a pure sap or a dilution of that sap. The drying of croton sap to make powder seems to be a very recent idea mostly because of ease of use internally. Croton dragonsblood is NOT an oleoresin, but some of the others are. Croton sap is water soluble. So this is obviously not what your friend is talking about or maybe he got confused somewhere. The chinese name for draons blood is xue jie which is Daemonropsis species [also referred to as Sanguis Draconis which is a pharm anme, not a botanicla name]. xue jie is indeed an oleoresin. It would be great to know which product your friend is actually talking about, but it seems from hsi description of the product that he is actually using Daemonropsis rather than Croton. Daemonropsis does not contain taspine and hence the whole supposition re HIV is a bit off. But then again I have no diea about the effects of Daemonropsis. A perfect example of why common names are useless and potentially dangerous. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rahli Posted September 26, 2011 Our friend shamanic plants supplies these seeds in his shop, though currently out of stock. http://www.kiwiboancaya.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=37&product_id=88 Currently in stock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
