The dissociative state.

[Chiral]

Have been reading heavily about various hallucinatory states lately and I found this interesting report on line, I thought it would be interesting to share here, perhaps not, but if it isn't then I'm sure a mod can remove it.

So the chance had come, I was alone and a lovely gm of K was awaiting my exploration. I measured out 500mg on the scales and bumped 60mg as a taster to see if this batch was any different to the last, it was indeed just as pure as the last lot so I was happy. The 60mg was a nice opener and had me resonating a little, nice.

I waited for 20mins and watched a little TV and surfed the net while contemplating what a large dose would be like. To help my mind prepare I had prepared a pad of paper and a pen next to me and I made sure I could sit or lay somewhere that was comfortable in case I really blacked out good n proper.

The time came and I racked up the rest of the powder into one long monstrous line. I love snorting so I was drooling at how this would hit me. I banged it up my nose in two hits, the first was already dripping and stinging before the second one got in there.

Wow, withing 3-4 mins I was resonating like a mutherfucker, I quickly reached for the pen and paper and attempted to draw something...anything, amazingly I was able to draw really well with my left hand and drew a face with eye's and eye lids in a very direct and unknown manner, I could not make a mistake with the image and felt machine like and mechanical, I then let my hand just draw whatever it wanted...freaky this bit, I started to draw the infinity symbol, over and over and over till it almost went through the paper.

I dropped the pen and paper and looked at the TV, it was there but also wasn't, I can't explain, I heard a noise outside and thought I better get somewhere quickly and lay down. I got up miraculously and stumbled into my bedroom and lay down on my side on the bed...BAM, then it came, what came I don't know, but K is very strange in that you don't fear any of it, you just accept, it's almost the anti of acid, it doesn't connect you to earth and show you meaning, rather strips away all that, and shows you truth, fundamental foundations and quantum mechanics.

I was engulfed in static for sometime, then I remember sitting bolt upright and sticking my tongue out, my tongue became a switch on a machine and started to do these insane switching movements just like some sort of robotic lever, this must have looked insane to anyone who could watch me. I was now part of some sort of machine that was processing a repetitive task, I was happy, I accepted the task and became the machine. I'm just the psyhics or atoms, I'm a working particle in the workings of time and being, although time is not a feeling there it is of absolute no consequence. On K there is no us but there is also no me either, this is the hardest part to accept because of "life" here, it is alsmost like the place a monk would spend his life seeking out but never quite got there due to constant bombardment of this place and it's millions of distractions.

There are no distraction in K, none at all, process a task and the task is you, there are no orders or commands, just a knowing, a silent knowing, kind of telepathic but better if that makes sense. there are also no questions or sudden realizations, these are unimportant and no longer exist, information is of no use as you go about your processing with absolution and an empty mind.

Next I remember finished the task and switching off, laying back down and now hallucinating incredible static, swirling beautiful static, I was alone, perhaps waiting to be called to fill a role, waiting for a death so I could jump in and start processing duties in a new life.

The K place or hole is very fundamental, it does not trick you, or show you anything pretty or colorful, yet the calmness and lack of any fear is almost ghostly and wise. I didn't want to leave, this was okay I can understand this very simply, I'm happy to be here, there is no madness or emotion or confusion, just a state of.. real.

I am part of a machine that is constantly looking to process universal data and does so without any emotion or consideration, it just does what it does and is kind of beautiful and serene. It also feels kind of lonely and not warm, but it's not cold either, it's just right. Too much data and transitioning next in this middle section to understand or remember.

I eventually came around after some time, the K resonate is way cool and I could tatse the K drip so much in my nasal cavity that I sucked in through my nose and went for another smaller ride. Eventually at some point and my partner was back home, I had been sitting up and talking to her as she asked me some questions, I had no idea what I said but she had accepted my answers and went off to make some hot tea apparently. I sat up and felt my heart rate was quite pronounced and was indeed beating quiet hard, I took a couple of medium breaths and felt it with my hand. A kind of blueish static charge leaped across from my finger tips to my chest, wow that was incredible...the room was almost dark except for a bedside lamp and the ceiling was all TV static and some blue and yellow bits in there too. I lay and wondered about what had transpired but could not put it into words or thoughts quite so easy.

I got up and walked around very wobbly, I sat at the end of the bed instead and realized I was at some sort of cross roads of feelings, mostly wanting to go back there or something, indeed the straighter and more sober I became the sadder I was to be back here amongst the confusion, ego's and emotions of this UN/REAL.

I'm not scared of going to that place...ever, I am scared that it maybe a place I crave so bad that I may find myself there permanently one day due to foolhardiness, but I have been down these roads of bliss and new knowledge before when discovering new psychedelics, I'll await some time to pass to get over the newness and wonder before I get carried away, a lot like your first true love in high school, you can't stop thinking about them but it does indeed taper off at some point.

K is a true psychedelic in such an unexpected way, I was never confused or blinded by any evil or beauty, just correctness and acceptance, a truth is there, one you don't see here yet one might consider that it was awaiting you at death.

Extremely wonderful and thought provoking,I am better for the experience, I'm even less afraid of death than before now, and feel I have seen the other side of something, the anti tryptamine or mescaline if you will, it's honest and does not play tricks...psychedelic heroin ...maybe...go there again, I have to, but I'll wait a while perhaps attempt to process this, even though there is nothing to process, how odd.. but at the same time what does it matter, I know and accept without having too.

Wow.

Anyone here had experiences with other dissociative's before and care to relive or tell the tale...?

[incognito]

The K place or hole is very fundamental, it does not trick you, or show you anything pretty or colorful, yet the calmness and lack of any fear is almost ghostly and wise

SNORTING K IS A WASTE

seriously chiral, if u want to see what k can do, IM.

i am a fan of the dissociative experience. nothing measures against it.

i have reports covering the big 3- K, Salvia and nitrous here on the forum.

when the mind is stripped of all its humanly fears and restrictions, ur left with a god.

acess to knowledge, knowing the reason behind life and the reasons behind everything, how everything works, the universe itself EVERYTHING.alas that knowledge can never be retained or 'come back' (IMO) hence why i think dissasociatives are extremely dangerous, not to your health exactly but to your psyche, personality, how you interact with people and the world around you, and mental health in general.

you can be left so far and detatched from 'reality' that i found myself to become just a really annoying bum, not really of any use when it came to anything practical.

you lose friends and loved ones, jobs etc etc simply because u think ur the shit and you see all. i can only speak of my own experience, and yes i LOVE k,salvia, and nitrous, and really desire to STAY there whilst i am under there effects, which also to my personality is very dangerous, and am thankful on many k trips my fingers have not been able to work to draw up another fit, or have run out of nitrous, or have lost the salvia pipe as im sure i would happily kill myself on these substances. to die with that knowledge.

but yes i agree it is very alluring. thank christ those substances stay well away from me now!

Edited May 6, 2010 by incognito

[Chiral]

you can be left so far and detatched from 'reality' that i found myself to become just a really annoying bum, not really of any use when it came to anything practical.

you lose friends and loved ones, jobs etc etc simply because u think ur the shit and you see all. i can only speak of my own experience, and yes i LOVE k,salvia, and nitrous, and really desire to STAY there whilst i am under there effects, which also to my personality is very dangerous, and am thankful on many k trips my fingers have not been able to work to draw up another fit, or have run out of nitrous, or have lost the salvia pipe as im sure i would happily kill myself on these substances. to die with that knowledge.

but yes i agree it is very alluring. thank christ those substances stay well away from me now!

 

Interesting, I think of it as more humbling than acid or mescaline, there are way too many "I know everything man" hippies and god like trippers out there that claim they are incarnations of whatever the fuck, but I don't believe the disso state makes a user into a bragging psychedelic know it all like other more common psychedelics does, at all..it's much more serene and the user does not grow his hair or need to wear tye dye to show who he is if you know what I mean...it's very humbling and pure.

It is a very interesting place though, the switching off phase is very delicate and unobtrusive, it's like "welcome home" and that I find is probably the most worrying thing for a psychonaut.

no need to proclaim that a certain route is a waste either, or is the only way of administration, they are all routes and each has it's benefits, some do not want to be hit hard and instantly and need or like time to adjust and feel a slower onset.

[faustus]

no need to proclaim that a certain route is a waste either, or is the only way of administration, they are all routes and each has it's benefits, some do not want to be hit hard and instantly and need or like time to adjust and feel a slower onset.

nobody who has IMed k would say that. intranasal k is offensive.

seriously.

everybody has an aversion of needles. it's fucking natural. but trust me, it's well worth getting over that fear to IM k. use a 0.2 micron syringe filter, and your risk of infection is extremely minimal.

(from what i've read)

Edited May 6, 2010 by faustus

[incognito]

no need to proclaim that a certain route is a waste either, or is the only way of administration, they are all routes and each has it's benefits, some do not want to be hit hard and instantly and need or like time to adjust and feel a slower onset.

as long as you are aware that K is designed for IM, but seriously, snorting k is a waste and should carry a prison term. (from what ive read)

"welcome home"

i wholeheartedly agree.

Edited May 6, 2010 by incognito

[faustus]

I have seen the other side of something, the anti tryptamine or mescaline if you will, it's honest and does not play tricks...psychedelic heroin ...maybe...go there again, I have to, but I'll wait a while perhaps attempt to process this

john lilly said that ketamine is a seductress, and i agree. just like a seductress in a low cut dress, it shows you enough to keep you interested, but not enough to keep you satisfied.

i also think ketamine indulges your ego. it'll show you everything that you want to see.

[Chiral]

nobody who has IMed k would say that. intranasal k is offensive.

seriously.

everybody has an aversion of needles. it's fucking natural. but trust me, it's well worth getting over that fear to IM k. use a 0.2 micron syringe filter, and your risk of infection is extremely minimal.

(from what i've read)

 

yes but one must be 200% positive with what they are doing if they have never been down that route and it's not something you practice by yourself for shits n giggles, particularly when it's in it's powdered state.

anyways that report is pretty full, be an interesting experience I should imagine...some might even say scary.

[incognito]

i would agree in part. however, and i would love to hear your thoughts on this faustus, what about that access to that amazing knowledge u seem to have in the dissociative state? that knowing of everything there is?

its a condition ive had on ket and salvia, and ntrous, infact i find the 3 to be very similar in experience.

i was lucky to have got my hands on pure salvia a when it was legal, and the similaritys between that and a k-hole to be more than similar, if not the same.

that knowledge......

[Chiral]

What knowledge...there is no knowledge per say there..it's what it is and nothing more..an empty mind if you will, there is no use for anything there in the here as far as i can tell, not sure but it certainly is a place of peace and understanding on sooooo many levels that well...indescribably.

It's like it's before time, and once you are reasembled and your neurons are placed in a certain order then you come here..in this time and place, K is before time almost or even without time or meaning really...it's eternity and infinity at it's purest.

[PhoenixSon]

such a tease now im horny as nito

[psilosophical]

but trust me, it's well worth getting over that fear to IM k. use a 0.2 micron syringe filter, and your risk of infection is extremely minimal.

(from what i've read)

 

man, even with plain tap water and a ciggie filter the risk of infection is pretty damn low.

its really not that risky.

K is something that never found me, although i havnt been much part of a certain scene where many magical substances are found in some time. i look forward to meeting it some day though

Edited May 6, 2010 by psilosophical

[incognito]

man, i dont even know how u can comment.

u r having a VERY watered down experience. have u IM'd k? have u smoked pure salvia? have u experienced quantum amounts of nitrous? i dont recommend it but.....

its like going up to someone who has just gotten off the worlds biggest roller coaster and saying "i understand exactly how that must of felt! i just got of the merry-go-round!"

i was only speaking from my personal experience, and im sure my experience of k via Im is completely different to others who have gone down this route, however from convos ive had with others who have experienced large dose dissociatives there are similaritys, i,e accesing a phenomenal amount of knowledge, or info.

all i can theorise is that the knowledge/info is inherant within us, maybee we are born with it, but in being a human being, we have become seperate from it(or ignorant of it), until that human being is swept away by a full-on dissasociative experience.

and as i have said before, the knowledge cant be brought back, and if u try and make sense of it, it just sounds like garble.

[faustus]

ketamine is an NMDA antagonist, and NMDA receptors are important for cognitive ability, especially in the frontal lobe. all i can say is that i think ketamine mangles up your thought processes into what i consider to be total crackhead logic.

one example off the top of my head, a friend had taken a high dose of k and was utterly convinced that the world was ending. i'm talking, ABSOLUTELY convinced. he could predict it, because he had this ability to predict the future in the k-hole.

(this in and of itself is an interesting phenomenon, and i wonder how many people experience this? it's like you're winding up a toy, and as it's winding and winding back, your start being able to see into what will happen once you let go of the toy. and when you eventually do let go of it, it springs back and everything that you predicted would happen does happen. weird shit, but i digress...)

and he told his friend, "the world... it's gonna end. right... nnnnnnow!"

he was convinced that the world had ended. and his friend told him "so what happened?" to which he replied "the world did end. it was just re-created again instantaneously."

all i can say is that i've spent a bit of time with a few schizophrenics, and they generally display this really twisted logic, that kinda makes sense, but really deep down, is utterly bizarre and irrational. so it doesn't surprise me when they say that k produces the cognitive deficits similar to those seen in schizophrenia.

i think ketamine is a very, very unusual and interesting substance. all i can say is that i don't think you should take anything you experience on k too seriously, because that's when k starts to fuck up your life. seriously, would someone who has just gained a profound insight into the nature of reality become socially withdrawn (another symptom of schizophrenia), detached from consensus reality (another symptom), devoid of emotion (and another...) and unable to speak coherently (...) ?

three books i really think people should read are john lilly's autobiography, as well as marcia moore's book journeys into the bright world. from memory she became convinced that she had met her soulmate, an angel named gabriel, who she could communicate with in the k hole, and ended up banging up k in the forest when it was snowing and froze to death. this is out of print and hard to get but i recommend it. and also k: dreams and realities.

more than any other psychedelic, k tends to fuck cunts up.

[faustus]

i have to get back to work, but

even with plain tap water and a ciggie filter the risk of infection is pretty damn low.

argh! no, cigarette filter has fine glass particles, and is bad for you. a tampon is better. but i really think people should use disc filters.

[incognito]

that knowledge seems so real and made perfect sense at the time though!!! i would always be 'chasing that feeling' if by luck and turns of events i hadnt evolved into a much more functional human being. theres more to life than psychadelic experiences.

but yeah faustus...word.

k really fucks ahem..cunts up

especially this ..ahem cunt up!!! (i still feel like a dirty dirty man typing that word, faustus ur a bad influence ;)

i lost alot more than any insight i ever gained, just so thankful i cant get hold of it.

and am probably lucky i didnt lose my life on a couple of occasions using dissasociatives.

but damn.. now i want a shot!!!!!!!

[Chiral]

man, i dont even know how u can comment.

u r having a VERY watered down experience. have u IM'd k? have u smoked pure salvia? have u experienced quantum amounts of nitrous? i dont recommend it but.....

 

Now who has a god complex...

jesus man it was what it was...how do you know how somebody else trips unless you are that person..lets not forget that this stuff works on the ratio of mg to weight of person, and regardless of type of administration if one gets to the K hole then one gets to the fucking hole yes...

250mg insuffilated maybe like 50mg IM, so if one increases the dose via the nasal route to an extreme level then in theory they can achieve parts per million the same amount in the blood stream as if done IM yes...?

anyways I'm not going to argue this point as it's typical that a thread goes off tangent due to semantics so I'll leave it at that.

another time the IM route may be taken but until then the report deals with the chosen route on the occasion and the effects of that day.

the trip is what I wanted to discuss not the admin route.

book recommendations are very much welcomed Faustas.

Edited May 6, 2010 by Chiral

[incognito]

Now who has a god complex...

fair call but i was making an observation. having had gone the nasal route and IM'ing, i can safely say that you are nowhere near touching on the true potential psychadelic effects of k, as opposed to IM. i have no pride in saying ive IM'd K, infact on MOST occasions was just plain foolish. but when u say there are no visuals or knowledge, i am merely pointing out the fact that you are not fully realising the effects that K has when administered via IM, which, u have said yourself u have not experienced.

all i am trying to say is that u have not even touched the sides through intranasal.

while faustus says there is no knowledge there, that has not been my experience. my experience is that it has not been able to been brought back and integrated. i definately respect faustus views on the topic matter of ketamine, and have a deep understanding of what he is trying to convey.

edit: totally recommend this book also k: dreams and realities.

anyhoo ive laid down my experience here, speak yer truth as they say.

sorry if ive earned a few negatives!!

Edited May 6, 2010 by incognito

[Chiral]

but when u say there are no visuals or knowledge, i am merely pointing out the fact that you are not fully realising the effects that K has when administered via IM, which, u have said yourself u have not experienced.

 

No visuals...did you even read the report in it's entirety, or did you just hit respond when u saw the title and start off with your own experiences...seriously this all incredibly interesting to me and I encourage thought provoking constructiveness here on this subject, not some sort of I'm better than you mutant style malarkey.

[incognito]

What knowledge...there is no knowledge per say there..it's what it is and nothing more..an empty mind if you will, there is no use for anything there in the here as far as i can tell, not sure but it certainly is a place of peace and understanding on sooooo many levels that well...indescribably.

fair call, and i offer my humblest apologies. i did read ur first post, i thought u alluded to no visuals in the above post, and i was mistaken. however the rest of my post still stands.

i dont think im better than u chiral, im no better than anyone (or less). Just wanted to put acrooss whilst u where on the subject of ketamine, that IM truly is the route to go down if u really wanna see what k can do.

i apologise if what i have said has come across any other way, it was not my intention.

peace.

[holymountain]

a friend who had a whole vial of pure k in india once found the experience to be very mechanical and cold. there was no fear even as the most bizzare things were occuring. a whole range of undescribable things happened. most seemed trivial and bizzare with little learning or teaching. bizzare for the sake of bizzare. feelings of travelling along an old rollercoaster. feelings of being a leaf in the wind. melting through the floor. travelling in old elevators. things multiplying to infinity. strange electronic sounds. reminded him of the film 'naked lunch'.

like faustus said i wouldn't hold onto anything i was shown as a truth...a lot of the time it just seems weird for weirds sake rather than true spiritual teachings. but my friend didn't IM it so maybe he missed out totally

was very wary of the feeling of wanting more once it wore off. not like other psychs where you are just grateful to be back and in your body again.

it seems people that go heavily down the path end up in trouble. i too recommend john lilly's 'the scientist' and karl jansens 'ketamine dreams and realities'... also you should read D.M Turner's 'guide to psychedelics' which you can read here: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/essential_psychedelic_guide/essential_psychedelic_guide.shtml

this guy struggled with K addiction and ended up drowning in his bathtub whilst under the influence.

all in all very, very, very interesting but like incog said you can't bring THE KNOWLEDGE back so ultimately you have to wonder why you do it? other than curiosity to explore some extremely bizzare states. worth a look but wouldn't trust it.

this video clip by the chemical brothers really reminds me of it as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBV2353FoYA&feature=fvst

[Chiral]

a friend who had a whole vial of pure k in india once found the experience to be very mechanical and cold. there was no fear even as the most bizzare things were occuring. a whole range of undescribable things happened. most seemed trivial and bizzare with little learning or teaching. bizzare for the sake of bizzare. feelings of travelling along an old rollercoaster. feelings of being a leaf in the wind. melting through the floor. travelling in old elevators. things multiplying to infinity. strange electronic sounds. reminded him of the film 'naked lunch'.

like faustus said i wouldn't hold onto anything i was shown as a truth...a lot of the time it just seems weird for weirds sake rather than true spiritual teachings. but my friend didn't IM it so maybe he missed out totally

was very wary of the feeling of wanting more once it wore off. not like other psychs where you are just grateful to be back and in your body again.

it seems people that go heavily down the path end up in trouble. i too recommend john lilly's 'the scientist' and karl jansens 'ketamine dreams and realities'... also you should read D.M Turner's 'guide to psychedelics' which you can read here: http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/essential_psychedelic_guide/essential_psychedelic_guide.shtml

this guy struggled with K addiction and ended up drowning in his bathtub whilst under the influence.

all in all very, very, very interesting but like incog said you can't bring THE KNOWLEDGE back so ultimately you have to wonder why you do it? other than curiosity to explore some extremely bizzare states. worth a look but wouldn't trust it.

this video clip by the chemical brothers really reminds me of it as well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBV2353FoYA&feature=fvst

 

Now that's a constructive post HM.

I think as explorers of the mind and spirit we have to place ourselves at the precipice of understanding and anything we gather through our journeys are considered parts or pieces to an equation, well that's if there is a final equation to be resolved, but how can we "not try" or not explore, to me not exploring the realms of our minds or taking incredible journeys through psychedelics or even meditation is a crime against yourself.

I simply cannot imagine just giving up and accepting that this is what it is...this right here and now, is all I ever will be or know is completely unacceptable to me, perhaps that's an obsessive illness in it's self, but being aware and continuing the search gives me a sense of inner pride and strength and if that means taking risks to some people then too bad, what if we all just sat around and watched footy and got drunk and let our cable TV wash over us after a day in the office, how would we possibly move forward or pass on anything to our young un's..?

a lot of the time it just seems weird for weirds sake rather than true spiritual teachings.

what are true spiritual teachings I might ask...?

I find it fascinating that no matter how much you read up on K, the experience is not a suggestive one through readings or any media type stimuli...this has been a bone of contention amongst traditional psychedelic users for decades.

strange electronic sounds. reminded him of the film 'naked lunch'.

lol. you mean videodrome don't you...that was a classic weirdo disso movie I thought.

[incognito]

I simply cannot imagine just giving up and accepting that this is what it is...this right here and now

what is so unnaceptable?? there is as much magic and wonder right here and now 'el natural', , than u will ever find via k or through any other psychadelic. chiral i honestly fear for you, and we have had this talk many times via telephone and pm. i just hope someday u can find peace. i can almost guarentee you that you will not find it through a psychadelic compound. (lasting peace at any rate.)

i love u man.

[Chiral]

I simply cannot imagine just giving up and accepting that this is what it is...this right here and now

what is so unnaceptable?? there is as much magic and wonder right here and now 'el natural', , than u will ever find via k or through any other psychadelic. chiral i honestly fear for you, and we have had this talk many times via telephone and pm. i just hope someday u can find peace. i can almost guarentee you that you will not find it through a psychadelic compound. (lasting peace at any rate.)

i love u man.

 

is finding peace the ultimate resolve...?

or is that a cop out for ignorance or giving up the search...?

I think peace can be a state of mind you can put yourself in when you need to, all the rest of the time it's a war out there damnit..!!

I think for me personally to live without fear would be the ultimate Utopia, to get as close to a feeling of no fear, a freedom and pureness as possible. I don't think in all seriousness there is an answer to our questions as the same questions have been asked for millennium or more, are we any closer to deciphering any of it...perhaps, but chasing the carrot is part of existing and the chase..(life) is part of a bigger operation on a level we have absolutely no idea of how big or how small.

To be honest our answers are more than likely scattered amongst the cosmos in random states or awareness, some parts may be accessed by psychedelics as they allow us to see back or through to areas not generally available to humans in a 20 x 20 world, remember we are can only ever be aware of what our sense's allow us to be aware of, that in itself suggest to me that we only exist in a small finite band of resonance, one band and I'think we are fools to believe that our band is the only one.

remember that it is better to go doing things you love to do and are passionate about than by some other pitiful slow way or existence in the care of the corporation.

I am but a thread in the fabric of time right now, my thoughts and imagination are far extending and outstretched into the beyond...I seek out the unfearing purity of no emotion and serenity...if by definition that is peace then so be it.

[incognito]

what exactly are you fearful of, chiral?

peace..what more could one want?

im off a mind that its the goal of humanity, and what is within our power, to bring upon the earth.

[Chiral]

You say peace but what is that by definition...?

fear surrounds us in so many intricate ways that we are completely bound up in it's web, this world wraps you up day by day in it's web of illusions and deciept, mistrust, distraction, greed, materialism, threats, money, unrealistic goals and lifestyles...this is just some of the fear we are caught up in, there is fear around every corner, every drive we take, every decision is based on right or wrong, these decisions are nearly always based around fear and safety...what are the consequences of my next actions, this is fear and having to think about everything and consider the consequences provokes a feeling of fear in me.

We live a life based around fear when u really think about it...we fear for others, we fear dying, we fear being poor, sick, leaving our families and friends, the list goes on and on.