some variegate knuthianusX pix for ferret

[Moses]

hey all i got these scopX seeds off ferret last year and they turned out to throw heaps of variegates.

i have about 12 small pea size seedlings ive nursed over winter which i hope to graft this spring,

and three more advanced seedlings(20,10 and 8cm)

all these from 200 seeds

Edited March 30, 2010 by PD.

[Xenodimensional]

Wow! Allow me to be the first to say.... er... wow!!!

It would probably go without saying that pups or seeds from these would be most highly sought after 'round these parts!

Definitely keep us up to date with more photos! Great work!!

btw is it just me or does the seedling in the last shot look like it's cresting a little?

Edited August 17, 2009 by Stitches

[Moses]

btw is it just me or does the seedling in the last shot look like it's cresting a little?

yeah that last seedling is one weird bloody shaped thing

fingers crossed for a crest

[mu!]

thats some cool lookin cactus you got there MOSES

do you know what they've been crossed with?

Edited August 17, 2009 by mu.

[Moses]

thats some cool lookin cactus you got there MOSES

do you know what they've been crossed with?

dont quote me but i seem to remember ferret saying there are only three plants(trich) in this garden and the scop is next to a pach(cant think of other plant )

they are ala-naturale crosses with no help from man afaik.

any comments ferret??

[.dg]

#3 is wicked looking, i wonder how it'll mature?? any idea of parent X?

if you can, you should graft #6

Edited August 18, 2009 by dg420

[strangebrew]

So more than 5% variagated? Nice. Probably be some other people around with those seed as well who should get the same.

I talked with somebody O.S. who'd hit the jack pot with a fruit that threw out a high % of trichocereus crests once as well, lucky bugger.

Edited August 18, 2009 by strangebrew

[ferret]

dont quote me but i seem to remember ferret saying there are only three plants(trich) in this garden and the scop is next to a pach(cant think of other plant )

they are ala-naturale crosses with no help from man afaik.

any comments ferret??

yep from a garden with scop, pach and knuthianus. (actually now that i think about it there were also a couple of huascha and grandiflorus types in there too.)

now ive obviously messed up at some stage, cos my variegates from this seed were labelled knuthianus X and theyre obviously the same lot.

that first plant pic you put up moses does look akin to knuthianus.. and i would dare say these arent scop x pach because ive noticed that cross to usually have a fairly standard form to them which is quite different to these fellers. must be some knuthianus in there i reckon.

hmm now ive really cleared things up. hah hah. sorry! awesome looking plants anyway, damn nice work keeping them going on their own roots!

[Moses]

O.k time for pic updates.

I decided not to graft any of the seedlings and see what happened,

and i'm allll smiles

[ferret]

very nice work moses! that last one makes me even more certain that i mixed up my seeds between me planting them as knuthianus and sending them out as scops.

anyone else get any "scop X" seed off me a few years ago and end up with these?

or anyone get knuthianus seed that looks like scop?

i visited the parent garden recently, and the owner has completely removed the knuthianus. a real shame.

R.I.P.

the scop with pach on the left

[Quill]

Nice ones MOSES, very nice ya lucky bastard.

[tripsis]

Incredible cacti, very strange looking indeed. Is that a crest beginning to form on one of them?

[flora]

HOLY MOSES! Just beautiful

and intriguing ... they dont look like much scop.

ferret has similar seedlings?

[Moses]

... they dont look like much scop.

 

yeah i gotta edit the title to knuthianusX i think

[WoodDragon]

The yellowed goose-necked plant in the photos numbered 16387-9 would have to be grafted at some point if you want to keep it. It's completely achlorophyllous at its apical meristem and in the growth region surrounding it, so it'll never 'pick up' any photosynthetic pigmentation. At some point the little green patch below will not be able to chug out enough photosynthate to sustain the whole plant, and it'll stop growing - or worse! If you grafted to a LARGE stock though, you might get a pretty impressive golden top! If you don't have a large stock to start with you could graft to something not so large, and regraft as you grow bigger stocks in the wings...

Any pups below a cut of the original seedling would be likely to be completely yellow too, if they arise from yellow aureolae. If you cut close to the green area you might get varigation again though - it'd be a case of suck it and see.

[Moses]

The yellowed goose-necked plant in the photos numbered 16387-9 would have to be grafted at some point if you want to keep it. It's completely achlorophyllous at its apical meristem and in the growth region surrounding it, so it'll never 'pick up' any photosynthetic pigmentation. At some point the little green patch below will not be able to chug out enough photosynthate to sustain the whole plant, and it'll stop growing - or worse! If you grafted to a LARGE stock though, you might get a pretty impressive golden top! If you don't have a large stock to start with you could graft to something not so large, and regraft as you grow bigger stocks in the wings...

Any pups below a cut of the original seedling would be likely to be completely yellow too, if they arise from yellow aureolae. If you cut close to the green area you might get varigation again though - it'd be a case of suck it and see.

 

agree the growth slowed to a bare cm this season i,m considering using coloured light or filters next season after reading this article

http://www.lapshin.org/cultivar/N19/light-e.htm

[PhoenixSon]

nice! damm fine

[WoodDragon]

Moses.

I doubt that any light treatment would work to counter the lack of chlorophyll.

Filtered lights would actually have less available energy than plain 'white' light from unfiltered tubes (because the colouring pigments absorb certain visible wavelengths and convert them to heat, reducing total visible ER output), and indeed from the sun itself. And there's the rub - if the sun can't power up these plants to produce photosynthate, no artifical light source is ever going to.

The trouble is that any carotenoid or other non-chlorophyll pigment remaining in the plant isn't really there to effectively pump out the electrons that underpin the whole photosynthate-production mechanism, in the way that chlorophyll does. Where they do contribute to photosynthesis, it is more by accident than by design: these pigments have other functions such as preventing the UV-burning of young, developing tissue, although some types do 'mop up' the longer (and inherently less energetic), visible wavelengths for photosynthetic purposes. They certainly do not have the capacity to effectively sustain the overall biomass of a plant that is geared to grow in the way that most terrestrials grow, and a yellow plant especially is low on the total pigment-o-meter.

Basically, such plants do not have an engine under the bonnet. If you want them to move, ya gotta push them. This is why they're grafted, and it's pretty much the only real strategy for maintaining completely yellow plants.

You should be able to pick up a few pieces of a powerhouse bridgesii clone here for a decent price. At the age that your plant is, I wouldn't go for girth so much as length: one nice long, skinny piece should root quickly (if you don't find a good seedling), and give you enough of a photosynthetic factory to put your tip on, that it'll go for a couple of years - the longer the stock is that remains above ground, the better. And if you grow up another tip or two, on the side, to get them super long, you should be able use them to get the yellow tip to fairly large proportions over time by regrafting when it slows down again.

I've had varigated seedlings myself that threw yellow tips - one of the perils of varigation (whether by seed or by sporting) in the early stages is that the chimerism is frequently unstable in the beginning. And in the end, yellow = dead, without a stock to do the hard work.

If you're a bit iffy about doing a graft, I reckon that you'd have some experienced people around who'd be happy to do their best to do it for you. It's probably a lot of work when all is said and done, but if you want to keep the mutation for any length of time it's really the only approach that'll do the job.

Think seriously about it though - it'd be an interesting project.

Edited April 4, 2010 by WoodDragon

[DayLight]

referring to the first plant pictured in the newest set of photos, there is a chance that it appears to have the possibility of a cristate or monstrose growth habit only because the green part of the plant is growing faster and fatter than the rest of the plant

[Moses]

referring to the first plant pictured in the newest set of photos, there is a chance that it appears to have the possibility of a cristate or monstrose growth habit only because the green part of the plant is growing faster and fatter than the rest of the plant

 

correct,

all my variegates grow more vigorously on the green areas which gives rise to curved growth of varying degrees.

[Moses]

The yellowed goose-necked plant in the photos numbered 16387-9 would have to be grafted at some point if you want to keep it. it'll stop growing - or worse!

 

damn you've cursed me WD

i have'nt seen my plants for 2 days as i've got home a little late, i found it last nite rotted away from just above the green area.

too late at nite for a pic but i did manage to graft the tip(1 cm) to a pachnot(sic),fingers crossed i will at least keep the tip alive..

[WoodDragon]

Moses.

Dude - I'm sorry for putting the kibosh on your plant!

One interesting point is that if you can work out the ratio of pigmented to non-pigmented surface area before the rot set in, you might be able to guesstimate a value beyond which a plant of that species cannot sustain the continuing growth of unpigmented tissue. I often wonder this when I see the yellow and red varieties of various species grafted onto puny bits of hylo stock in shops, but I'm never inclined to buy one to work it out... Anyway, it might serve as a benchmark for others waiting to graft mutations to a good stock.

Still, now that the tip is on a robust stock it should be OK for a while, as long as there's a vascular connection somewhere. Fingers crossed.

If you clean the cut on the seedling too, you might yet have an aureola pup with varigation, depending on the nature of the pigment chimerism.

Anyway, good luck with it.