Sassafras/Saffron/Kratom Mead

[Monk]

Not sure if this is the place to post this, but as it is plant derived product, here goes...

I'm gettin' hitched this fall and it occured to me that a batch of Mead would be the ideal brew to have ready for the honeymoon. As you may or may not know, it is called the honeymoon because it was tradition to give the newlyweds a months(moons) supply of mead(honey wine) to ensure a solid consumation of the marriage:) Anyway, down to business. From my supplier in the netherlands, I ordered 15 g top notch saffron, 100 g Sassifras albidum, and 20 g 15:1 kratom extract. Don't worry guys, all this is legal where I'm at as long as I don't sell any food product with safrole in it;) My idea is to boil the sassafras in 3 gal water for 15 min. to extract the goods. This is typical for making sassafras tea. It will also kill any microorganisms found on the bark/roots. Then I plan to cool the must to about room temp., toss in my 12-15 g saffron(depending on how much I have left after testing,hehehe,) 12 pounds fresh citrus blossom honey, kratom extract and top off to 5 gal. After mixing and aeration(splashin, swirling etc.,) I'll pitch the yeast and airlock it. I'm fairly new to brewing, but have a very good book on it. Any advice would be much appreciated, especially from experienced brewers out there. My aim is to get a brew where each pint contains 100-150 mg saffron/ 2 g worth of sassafras stuff/ and .25 g kratom extract for good measure.

[nabraxas]

i'm not a brewer so i can't offer any advice, but it sounds like a good plan.

many congratulations on your impending nuptials

[DuG]

you will need to addd some nutrients to the brew as honey is nutrient defficent. By memory the schedule for this is to add nutrients every day for the first 4 days. Mead can be a slow fermenting, (up to 6 months), and it can also take a very long time to age. I had a batch that was only drinkable after 6 years, and it was wonderful after 9!

also make a starter cultures of yeast using the same conditions that will be present in the wort. ie use honey as the base sugar, this is to get the yeasties used to the conditions and to get a good number of them prior to picthing. another way is to just add several packets of yeast to the wort.

good luck and congrats

[Monk]

Thanks for the response and congrats guys.

What type of nutrient/energizer would be best? I was thinking that having some DAP for the free ammonium ions would possibly help the yeast bioaminate the safrole in addition to feeding the yeast. Is there something you find superior? Not even sure if yeast will do this reaction, but this is alchemy , right? Also, I read that Narbonne yeast matures the brew more quickly than most, so will try to procure this one. What do the brewers out there think. I think its apparent that what I'm going for is an aphrodisiac, stimulant, empathogenic good time brew. Thanks again, everybody.

[foolsbreath]

If only it were that easy

DAP will act as a good yeast food, and maybe some vitamines to help it along such as ceravit, but don't expect much bioamination from yeast. Bacterial ferments will do better at that like malolactic bacteria which can turn amino acids such as phenylalanine into the corresponding amine in that case phenathylamine, but only in trace amounts.

[MORG]

I'm afraid I don't have much expertise in this area to offer but I do very much like the sound of where you're going with this one.

Good luck with both the wedding and the mead. I hope they both turn out to be everything you are hoping for.

Make sure you let us know how it goes.

[apothecary]

I think there is something said about Saffron potentiating opiates.

Obviously there are no opiates in this brew but you should be careful of the possible interaction with Kratom in that regard!

[Monk]

Yes, Apoth, I heard that also. Something about saffron being a main ingredient in old fashioned laudanum. The 15:1 kratom is supposed to be active at 1 g. , so at .25 g per pint, even if it was potentiated to 3X, I'd still be subthreshold. This is good as alcohol will be doing its thing as well. One thing I can't decide is when to add the saffron and kratom. I don't want to lose anything, so definately after the must cools, but maybe even after primary fermentation. What do you think foolsbreath/other brewers. Oh, and foolsbreath, I read about a product called Bacchus(great name ) from Lalvin that is malolactic bacteria for wine. What is this for? Should I add it to mead in hopes of bioamination? Also, after reading about yeasts, I think an aggressive yeast like Lalvin k1v-1116 might be better considering the weird stuff I'm putting in here, but would really appreciate some more direction from some seasoned brewers out there.

[Monk]

UPDATE:

In an effort to ensure that this brew will not taste like a shit sandwich, I procured some store quality saffron and a large Piper auritum leaf (my order is not here yet.) Piper auritum is known as root beer plant b/c it contains about .5% essential oil that is 80% safrole- a pretty good flavor approximation and available from certain mexican grocers if they like you. Anyway, I put 3 oz. cheap vodka, one large leaf, and about 40 strands cheap saffron in my french press for 24 hrs. Drank half the next day mixed in 6 oz. honey soln. Tasted like shit. At first I thought it was just the shitty vodka, but the herbs didn't mesh well. The effect was quite nice and euphoric-mildly better than just 1.5 oz vodka with more goodness. Also did some pushups to possibly bioaminate safrole. At some points during the next 45 min., got tingles in my neck/arms. Interesting, but didn't make up for the flavor.

NEW PLAN:

Brew 5 gal. plain mead, separate into two smaller batchs for secondary, adding saffron/kratom to on 2.5 gal batch, traditional root beer recipe to other 2.5 gal. batch with malolactic bacteria for any possible amination reactions. This should also allow for more scientific testing to determine is safrole brewed this way produces these reactions-rather than just getting faded from everything and saying woohoo.

Comments/concerns always welcome.

[foolsbreath]

malolactic fermentation carries out a conversion from malic acid to lactic acid. This drives the energy processes, so you must have some malic acid present, 2g/l would be suficient for a week to several week ferment, but you could keep supplementing with malic acid to extend (although you will be making your brew more acidic).

The formation of biogenic amines in wine such as histamine, methylamine, putrescine, cadaverine (the main amines found post ferment) are all produced from amino acid precursors during the bacterial ferment, so I don't know if you would have any success from propylbenzenes.

Finally if you choose to go that route, ensure the vessel is kept tippy topped, otherwise you will get higher levels of putrescine and cadaverine, named because of their delightful scents, as well as acetic acid/ethyl acetate if the ferment is carried out in aerobic conditions.

Now, it could theoretically be possible to reduce a nitro group, if one could turn the propyl benzene to a nitro-propylbenzene(could this be done with a electrophilic substitution reaction?) to an amino group by pressure mediated reduction of nitro to amino group via the FeSO[4]/NH[3]/H[2]O/EtOH system, and adding this precursor to a ferment for possible bioamination?

Edited March 5, 2007 by foolsbreath

[foolsbreath]

Oh yeah

Add anything volatile, that you want in the finished product after all fermentations (safron's constituents), or they will be lost through the action of carbon dioxide evolution and heat generated during ferment

[Monk]

Que pasa, foolsbreath? You lost me on that nitro-propylbenzene stuff, but thanks for tryin' to help me. I'm just a simple gardner so I went I think I'll stop overthinking this thing and make half the secondary fermentation with a variation on an old fashioned root beer recipe, while the other half will just contain saffron, kratom and maybe some cardamon for flavor(found a traditional beverage that contains saffron/cardamom.) Furthermore, on further research at gotmead.com, I realized that a "short mead" brewed with ale yeast is ready for drinking MUCH quicker than the more potent brews i.e. three weeks after complete fermentation. I will take your astute advice, foolsbreath, so the safranal portion will go in just before bottling. This will most likely be done in the form of a few ounces of a concentrated vodka tincture of saffron so that most of the goodies will be soluble and ready to be diluted into the whole batch. The mitragyna, however, may go into the secondary fermentation to mellow out some of its flavor. Whatcha think? Similarly, I think I'll soak the Ocotea bark in a small amount of everclear to liberate as much safrole as possible before addition to the root beer half of the secondary. Typically, wintergreen bark, wild cherry bark, sassafras, yellow dock, sarsparilla(sp?) and a few others were boiled together prior to a short fermentation. Maybe I can just boil the others(non safrole containing) into about 2 liters of h2o then add this and the everclear/ocotea extract to the secondary, giving myself a little larger secondary fermenter for the extra volume. This way, I'm sure to have a significant quantity of safrole in the brew for in-vivo amination with some dancing or other festive anaerobic activity. Plus, it'll be very historically interesting to taste a hard root beer approximating an old recipe no longer available commercially. I understand it tastes very different than root beer concentrate. Comments/Concerns?

[Monk]

Oh,yeah, and no malolactic fermentation, cuz its gonna be beer now, not wine. Which is good, because beer is goooood.

[Torsten]

dried piper auritum leaves will be virtually devoid of safrole. you will need a fresh one.

while aromatics may be lost through CO2 evolution, don't make the mistake of not trying it. Many compounds are changed by the fermentation, including the amination of some aldehydes, which could be rather interesting in this case.

[Monk]

Torsten, the leaf was fresh and very root beery. Apparently, it grows like a weed here. A mexican coworker promised to procure a division of his mothers plant for me!! Maybe I'll add 1/3 of the saffron portion into secondary fermentation and the remainder before bottling for possible aldehyde amination, though I need to do some reading about safranal to understand what you may be alluding to Oh yeah, almost forgot....

PRELIMINARY BIOASSAY:

Last night I tossed about 250 mg saffron (no scale-good eyes ) and about 7.5 ml of 2:1 mitragyna extract with some cardamom for taste into two ounces everclear(151 proof.) After soaking and shaking for a few hours, I drank about half of it diluted into 8 oz of honey solution. Taste: bitter and too much cardamom(1/8 tsp.) Effect:It is niize! I like! It was similar to low dose kratom, but with much more euphoria and empathy. Quite stimulating and heady as well. Very reccomended for those where its legal, of course. The empathy led to some extremely important conversation btw my lady and I, followed by repeated/incredible sexy times. This combo had incredible sexual potentiation for me. Later, when the lights were shut off, a pronounced, powerful strobing effect filled my visual field before gradually diminishing after a couple of minutes. Peculiar, never had that happen from just mitragyna. I slept okay, if a little restless, but woke up early I can't wait to make 2-3 gallons of its equivalent and have it on hand. The flavor needs work--less cardamom...much less. And it may need to be a sweet mead to cover the bitterness a little. Gotta sign off now, I'm feeling even more verbose than usual and could probably write a book tonight due to this combo/excitement

[Monk]

Oh yeah, one more thing. Torsten, will dried Ocotea bark still contain significant quantities of safrole?

[Monk]

Um, I know it's cheap, but I'm bumping my own thread to make sure you guys saw the bioassay above. Also, I now have a little 1ft. tall Piper auritum plant to stick in my special coco fibre based potting mix and raise to safroley maturity. Hooray

[vapor glow]

bump? :D this thread seems unfinished even though its a bit old...

/me waves hello to Monk

[Monk]

Heh, I never ended up combining these three into a brew cuz the flavors just wouldn't meld, or I didn't expect them too

I did do some more work with the root beer/sassy brews which can be found below (good stuff:)) and did a safron/sceletium mead thing that didn't taste too great, but had some serious psychoactivity! Those who saw it as a means to get high didn't mind at all, while those who were after a good tipple didn't want to endure it for the ends

Here they are, I apologize for the cut/paste. Not my computer. Fuck:

Root Beer:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...mp;hl=sassafras

Hoja Santa Sour Brew:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...mp;hl=sassafras

Saffron/Sceletium Mead:

http://www.shaman-australis.com/forum/inde...&hl=saffron

Oh, and thanks for the interest, vapor. Welcome to SAB. This place kicks ass and I miss it a bit:)

[planthelper]

hey, good to hear from you fm, i was close to start a thread "where is fm?"

wellcome vapor glow, let me guess, you missed teotz so you joined this forum?

[Teljkon]

adad

Edited December 19, 2021 by Teljkon

[Monk]

wellcome vapor glow, let me guess, you missed teotz so you joined this forum?

Haha! Nice.

Hey guys! Glad to see I haven't been forgotten I still lurk around here, but just don't post much. Things are good, life is busy, but I'm not married yet Life's funny like that. We shall see.

Anyway, Teljkon, I don't know much about keggerators as I've never made one so I can't really help you out with that. You making lagers or what?

http://www.maya-ethnobotanicals.com/produc...0&%20spices

Looks like he's a bit low, but I've seen other places that I found by searching Sagrol Saffron on Google. Sagrol is the best kind for psychoactivity.

[Teljkon]

adas

Edited December 19, 2021 by Teljkon

[Teljkon]

sdfs

Edited December 19, 2021 by Teljkon