Phleb destruction

[PD.]

 

Myself and a like minded individual travelled to our favorite mountain to take some photos today. When we arrived at a well known lookout i was appalled. It seems parks victoria care more about keeping paths clear than the rare flora that lives on the mountain. At first i thought that some arsehole had been ripping branches off the young trees. On closer inspection i could clearly see that the area next to the path had been slashed. This has obviously been done by park management to keep the track clear for people. Even though there is a fair number of phlebs in the vicinity, I think that that they should be left alone to grow where ever they sprout. People can go around them, they cant move, we can.

[Tripitaka]

WOW, that is a tragedy.

I have seen similar "cutting back" carried out along the sides of roads. Albeit they weren't a rare species such as A. phlebophylla, it invariably leaves the plant open to infection!

That this is carried out by those employed to foster and care for an environment is the worst kind of mismanagement!

[Dodie]

Thats horrible.

They should only employ people who know what they are working with, only people with exceptional id skills, or those who want to learn about helping our environment not just cutting back or getting rid of shit for the small benefit man.

I know it would be a very long shot but did you take the "cuttings"?

[black]

simply outrages i cant believe this stuff happens , the same sort of stuff that made go and live deep in the south west amongst virgen bushland ,away from all idiots ,thats right blacks a greeny, feral,hippy,axtavist,plants man,organic biodanamic hortaculterlist , you get the piture ,any way plans and actions are under for my mega gardern or garden of eden what ever you want to call it ,set on virgen land of the earth deep south west , and i plan on growing a few masive stands of phleb kinda like plant a hole mountain out cause i figer if its cold down here all i have to do is find the right sea level you know like a nice mountain seting like the one from which is origanated and perfect, so what do you all think can i get some help or advice for my phleb plantationas

[_e_]

the sea level doesnt seem to matter too much in terms of their survival in natural habitat, with plants growing all the way down into the lowest reachs of the mountain.. (the granite substrate and ne facing slopes, as well as fire regimes and quarts/nutrient/bio-complex seem to be more important factors)

It is futile to approach a 'translocation' without a hell of a lot of planning, trying hardest to simulate their natural environment and 'natural bedding' them... i.e germinate them in location.

Also, the plants are out of whack in their flower cycle and it is unsure as to whether they are even going to set viable seed this year.. fingers crossed.

Its so sad to see a lack of understanding up on the mountain, one would think they would be a little more clued on in their activities, its a big responsibility. Although without the chalet management and local parks/firies all getting their wires crossed and infighting/politics, the fire never would have done such a good job at 'cleaning up' the phleb popn.

-phleb have you thought about approaching the park manager with the photos??? if not i am willing to do so next week or early the week after when we get back up there.

I too was quite surprised that they didnt re-route the ******'s lookout 'big walk' section after the fire.

It is quite evident the walk gets a lot of foot traffic and it cuts all through the juvenile re-growth.

Any human induced interruptions to these plants opens them up to infection, and one plant in the middle of a large 'clean' area will do the whole typhoid mary thing and spread disease into the plants around them

Ive seen where a wasp infestation on one plant, that devoured the entire mature specimen, has spilled over onto all the younger plants around it when the plant died and no longer supported the wasp swarm.

Just imagine what humans opening up plant tissue and moving through the popn is doing in terms of assisting the spread of disease.

[gerbil]

You'd think that the buffalo parks folk would have their shit together in regards to phleb protection.

They advertise the uniqueness of the species and some other endemics for tourism and then they allow this to happen

The thing is, it was probably done by a contractor and not the parks people, but then again it's parks responsibility to make sure this doesn't happen. I'd definately bring the issue up with parks management and express how disgusted the community is about this. Maybe they don't give a shit about the Fauna and Flora Guarentee Act they are supposed to be abiding by!, heh just like most fucking areas of environmental significance.

A heap of contractors are fucked and have no idea what they are doing, just be thankfull it was a slasher and not a chemical control. Last story I heard around these parts was that a spray contractor knocked off more indigenous species than the weeds he was employed to remove in a nearby national park from massive drift and directly spraying indig species as Plant ID skills were pathetic.

Most issues in regards to the environment these days are still swept under the carpet even though they spout the exact opposite to the public, honestly it's a fucking joke what this country stands for, I'm suprised there isn't mass aboriginal riots as we continue to disregard significance of the land. Lets just chuck all white folk in a barrel ;) just need to get myself a flute...

[black]

here here

[Rev]

Most issues in regards to the environment these days are still swept under the carpet even though they spout the exact opposite to the public, honestly it's a fucking joke what this country stands for, I'm suprised there isn't mass aboriginal riots as we continue to disregard significance of the land. Lets just chuck all white folk in a barrel ;) just need to get myself a flute...

ime most aboriginal people know less about the land today than most of us

the state of the environment in aboriginal settlements shows there is a long road from sustainable nomad to sustainable settlements

simply outrages uzi.gif i cant believe this stuff happens , the same sort of stuff that made go and live deep in the south west amongst virgen bushland

i just need to point out that by living in 'virgin' bushland you are destroying it - especially in sensitive places like the SW

its an inescapable consequence of you living there

foot traffic, nutrient buildup, runoff and hydrology changes and the import of feral animals and weeds will all destroy it in time

maybe youve never considered it that way before

the best thing you can do rather is to go live in the middle of a sterile wheat field and fix it up, bring back life, make it sustainable

just think about it

[Torsten]

maybe youve never considered it that way before

the best thing you can do rather is to go live in the middle of a sterile wheat field and fix it up, bring back life, make it sustainable

just think about it

I fully agree with that logic, except that there is another side to it as well. The block of virgin bushland that black might consider living on is obviously already a property that is on the market. hence it could be sold to either a wheat farmer (just an example in reference to 'wheat field') or someone who prefers to maintain it in a sustainable form. I think it is important for environmentally conscious people to buy up land that needs protection. The government obviously doesn't do enough of that so the responsibility lies with individuals.

I have seen the effects of both processes in my area. Near lismore the most popular urban developments are on prime agricultural land on the alstonville plateau. On the other hand a lot of the margins around rainforests have been bought up by hippies and seachangers who are replacing exhausted banana plantations and even sugar cane fields with newly planted native rainforests. This process has actually not gone unnoticed and the state government has as a result put a zoning lock down on any area that is either nationally, state, or local agriculturally significant because the loss of farmland caused pressure to create new farmland in virgin areas.

So I am not sure if buying up a wheat field is the best idea as long as the demand for wheat growing land is not diminishing and hence a block of wheat field would simply be replaced by converting a new piece of less exploited land. I think much better would be to buy up land in areas which no longer serve as agricultural production areas due to change in economics, salinity, etc and to return these to sustainable land use or even better to virgin bushland. Alternatively, and I think this is what black had in mind, locking up virgin bushland is another option.

[Rev]

I do agree with you T and i dont think we are really in disagreemnet

the examples used may have thrown us down different paths

i agree citizens need to move to protect bushland. there are many way to do this. buying them up and putting a cabin or campsite on them is one

its still disturbing but not as much as permanent occupation

Edited April 3, 2006 by Rev

[_e_]

back on topic.

I just got back from the mountaina nd had a good conversation with one of the head rangers up there Felicity Brooke. We have had a couple of conversations prior to this one in regards to the conservation staus of the phleb and in particular the harvesting of the plant by memebers of the australian psychedelic community.

She seems to have the attitude that if your young and alternative and know about the dmt content of the plant, then your relationship to the plant must be purely based on drug lust!

like other parks officials she has a very beaurecratic approach to the plant and activities involving the plant, and everythign is done according to legislation and official DSE guidelines.

When i asked her about several matters including the pollution of ladies baths by sediment run off as a result of track clearing, and the harsh treatment of the plants along walkways she said :

"We have limited the grading of roads around the communitys and decresead track slashing by .5m, we feel that slashing the paths is justified as it keeps people ont he track and out of the regrowth, and its impact is considered to be minimal given the current success of post fire re-growth"

I asked if she knew why the plants flowering cycle is out of whack and she said she had no idea when the plant was supposed to flower and what stage it was currently at. When i asked if i could talk to somoene with a little more nouse in regards to the plant she gave me the name of a DSE official from the wadonga DSE branch who was said to be responsible for the departmental approach to the plant. I have tried contacting him on numerous accasions and has absolutely zilch response.

To add to concerns i have noticed large sections of phleb that appear to have been poisened or at least suffering from some kind of toxicity that has killed off clumps of the plant and nearly all surrounding ground cover, and have also noticed that there are large infestations of aphids attacking the plant in and around the most accessible regions of the phleb communities.

Personally i feel that placing the plant in a 'its all good now' bracket because their was incredible post fire regrowth is totally short sighted and superficial. What mature specimens are left are minimal at best and fighting off wasp, fungus and aphids, not to mention human induced changes, and there is definately something weird going on with the flowering cycle, and i doubt very much whether their will be seed production this year with many buds observed to be dying back with the approaching cold.

Their may be seas of youngns, but as has been shown by large clumps of die back, ther are still very vulnerable and their future is still up in the air.

[PD.]

I have received some information from my partners mother(Botanist,plant ecologist also studied genetics microbiology and native pine ecology) in regards to the (strange)flowering time of the phlebs this season.

She suggested that due to the prolonged, yet not so severe drought in the region the sublte changes from one season to the next was completely out of whack. The large amount of rain we had in November also contributed to this effect, confusing the plants about the season or seasonal changes. This was the most likely explanation although there could be other reasons or contributing factors.

This was only a very brief phone call, and i dare say that i will be seeing her in the next couple of days to sit down and talk more about other possibilities.

[planthelper]

from my gut feeling i support this view, i have often observed "out of whack flowering" with obtusifolias once rain comenced after long, dry spells.

[Torsten]

the phlebs were flowering almost continuously during the severe droughts the 4 years before the fire. During drought they do not form many seeds though, so I think they produce the flowers continuously to ensure that there are always fertilised ovaries ready to produce good seeds should ANY rain occur.

[Rev]

i would be careful assuming the aparent aberrant flowering is 'wrong'

Phlebo could have been on that mountain for 5 million years or more

in which time the climate has swung around alot

the genetic redundancy in many of our native plants to deal with erratic climate and drought, even in there rainforests is well documented

the cycles initiated in off years may not be confused at all but just strategies B through H

[PD.]

I would never assume a plant to be wrong. How can a plant that is growing in its natural environment be wrong?

min(E)rval was curious as to why the Phlebs were out of step with the "regular" cycle that we are accustomed to at this point in recorded history. The answer was fairly simple, due to the weather(drought, abrupt season change) over the past ten years and the fire much more recently. So there is nothing "wrong" with the phlebs and their flowering, its no big problem, its just that they are doing it at a different time than usually recorded.

I dont beleive that this will be an issue for the phlebs, give it a few years and they will be back to their "regular" cycle.