Amanita muscaria

[alkatrope]

Fucking cool shot

Thankyou

[tomte]

Hi! I found an interesting article concerning a-m from the fungimap newsletter. You can download the newsletter here.

RED WATTLEBIRDS AND TOADSTOOLS

Jill Dark, Australian Bird Study Association

This article originally appeared in the Australian Bird Study Association Newsletter 66, March 2002. It is reproduced here with the kind permission of the editor, Stein Boddington.

Website: http://www.absa.asn.au/

This description was given to me by the Wires rescuer concerned. The call came through to Wires in late afternoon that birds were falling from the sky in Katoomba. When the rescuer arrived the first thing she saw were two Red Wattlebirds almost dead in the middle of the road, necks twisted, wings spread out and legs splayed. One was bleeding from the eyes, the other had the third eyelid over the eyes. Both were barely moving and the pulse was faint.

A thorough search found 22 more birds (all Red Wattlebirds). Some were lying on their sides, four were perched in trees, fluffed up and with heads down, and others were lying where they had fallen, either in the garden or road. The callers advised that they had seen the birds converge on the toadstools (Amanita muscaria - big red toadstools with white spots, usually found under pine trees) and start to eat them.

Our rescuer checked several of the toadstools and found that the red fleshy tops had been extensively pecked at but the white part of the fungi had not been eaten. One wattlebird (a juvenile) was observed pecking at the toadstool during the rescue and when approached moved away. Within 2 minutes it was dead. It fell down, convulsed and died. Blood was coming from its eyes and its body was limp.

In all, 24 birds were rescued and two flew away (they seemedto be OK). Twelve birds died before the rescuer could treat them - three adults and nine juveniles. Some had blood coming from their eyes, others had the third eyelid across or their eyes rolled back. All had limp necks, splayed legs and

spread wings. Some had thick, yellow diarrhoea. The remaining 12 birds were slowly warmed and then given tepid water with lectade. They were very thirsty and took the fluid readily from an eyedropper. They could still not support their heads and some were convulsing intermittently. They were kept warm and given fluids throughout the night.

The next morning all appeared fully recovered. They were given another drink and released. All flew well and dispersed. A few stayed around for a couple of days, feeding, drinking and flying normally. The rescue area was checked over the next few days and no other birds were found.

The Fungimap people also provide documented locations of Amanita Muscaria accross Aust and vic. I hope they don't mind me posting them.

Edited May 23, 2006 by tomte

[Torsten]

why do they have to be dried at below 100degC? isn't the aim to decarboxylate the ibotenic acid to muscarine? why not do so during the drying process?

[alkatrope]

why do they have to be dried at below 100degC? isn't the aim to decarboxylate the ibotenic acid to muscarine? why not do so during the drying process?

I'm not completely sure. I read somewhere that the best conditions for the reaction to take place was between about 85 and 92 degrees, but at this moment am unable to find this source.

And yes, the aim is to get rid of the the carboxyl from the Ibotenic Acid - but to form Muscimol, Muscarine is apparently not active.

Edited May 23, 2006 by alkatrope

[ballzac]

Muscarine is quite poisonous and it is now known that there is very little in A. muscaria. And yes, I have also read not too boil it, and to keep it around 90 degrees.

[Torsten]

sorry, careless brainswitching. I meant muscimol.

So you are saying that the conversion does take place before/during drying..... so why do you need to simmer the tea for ages?

[ballzac]

sorry, careless brainswitching. I meant muscimol.

So you are saying that the conversion does take place before/during drying..... so why do you need to simmer the tea for ages?

I really don't know, maybe it's just to extract the muscimol, or maybe it's to ensure that close to 100% of the ibotenic acid is converted to muscimol

EDIT: I think most of the A. muscaria recipes would have originated from trial and error rather than scientific knowledge. It may not be known why it works best this way.

Edited May 23, 2006 by ballzac

[alkatrope]

sorry, careless brainswitching. I meant muscimol.

So you are saying that the conversion does take place before/during drying..... so why do you need to simmer the tea for ages?

Yes the conversion takes place during the drying process.

The tea simmering is not necessary, this is just to get as much of the muscimol as possible into the water so you have a good tea.

Personally, I think Amanita tea may the the fowlest beverage known to man, and highly recommend not preparing it in this way.

[Torsten]

considering that the CAS listed method for making muscimol is to boil ibotenic acid in water for an hour, maybe it doesn't matter what temp the caps are dried at (provided it is below the decomposition temp of muscimol) as long as the tea is simmered for an hour before consumption.

I just mention this cos many folks would use a food dehydrator for drying material that comes in such prolific batches and these things usually run at 70degC maximum (much less when fully loaded).

Also, keep in mind that an oven at 100degC will not mean the caps are anywhere near that. Especially in a fan forced oven the evaporative cooling will keep the caps well below oven temp for most of the process.

So, it might be a good idea to ALWAYS simmer your tea for an hour before consumption.....

btw, I once fried some in butter and even though they smelled nice, I could not eat more than half a cap before puking. A methanol extraction resulted in a much more palatable resin.

[SaBReT00tH]

I haven't tried it myself but I've read on the net that the taste of Amanitas is soo good that some people use small quantities in cooking! Just wondering what the larger dose effects are like, as I've heard it causes a type of delirium. Could these effects be similar to Datura, Brugmansia and tropane alkaloids where a person doesn't know that they are actually tripping and think it's real? I've read some Amanita Muscaria experience reports on erowid like that but only after consuming the 20g+ range. Would it be the same for an average 8g dose?

[apothecary]

The action of muscimol is different from, but closest (I think), to scopolamine.

[alkatrope]

I've had one active dose of dried Amanita cap (gills removed) at 10-15 grams. The effects were hugely different from what I'd expect from scopolomine or atropine.

There were no visual distortions, delusions or patterning. Just a strong 'weird' feeling where everything was in a peculiar focus and looked.. 'different'. I also noticed lowered inhibitions, which felt like drunkeness without the dizyness, and heightened sociability (had I had people to socialize with, anyway).

Sounds pretty different to tropanes to me.

Disclaimer - the person referred to as 'I' in this story is completely fictional, and I myself can not be held responsible for their actions.

[tomte]

 

Amanita muscaria cooking methods is an interesting page. It seems as if you boil it for a few minutes the ibotenic acid and muscimol disappear so its safe to eat and that its pickled in parts of europe. Anybody willing to confirm this?

[reshroomED]

I experimented with these a few years back.

See this thread at EA for an interesting post I found on usenet in this regard.

I started off with broken caps simmered in lots of water for 15mins, then water discarded. Pieces were quickly pan-fried before eating. Also tried well-fried fresh caps. Max dosage got to about four tablespoons for the pre-washed shrooms and one for the fresh.

I stopped the experiment at this stage due to my 75yo mother continually sneaking a spoonful behind my back (the nicest mushrooms she's ever eaten, absolutely delicious). She did the same with some grass bickies once. I made up the butter and asked her to bake me some bickies (she's a grouse cook). Dosage should have been good at one biscuit, but my plan was to have half of one to try them out. Well, she had four while they were cooling. First I find out is when she said "Ed, I feel a bit funny", then told me what she'd done. Straight to bed and big spin-outs for mum for the rest of the day .

Results were inconclusve at these dosages, though there was definitely something there with the fresh caps. No noticeable effects from the boiled ones .

Definitely worth further *careful* investigation.

These are a poisonous mushroom.

ed

[SaBReT00tH]

Regarding preparation do amanitas need to be oven baked or can they just be dried in a foodprocessor? I knew a guy once who had 8 grams of food processor dried material who they boiled in for a couple of minutes, then let the mix simmer for about 25 mins, turned off the stove then left it to steep with a lid on till it was cool. Would this be enough to convert the poison acid to muscimol? Also, is a sitter needed when trying Amanita muscaria, and how long would an 8g dose last? I thought you drank the water when boiled but I noticed in one persons post that they threw the water away and cooked up the leftover mushroom material?

[reshroomED]

Didn't really explain well what I was about in my last post.

The experiment was low-dose amanitas as a general tonic (as per the idea in the EA link).

Definitely not seeking more than that, hence the low start point.

Water was discarded in an attempt to remove *all* toxins, but my understanding is that ibotenic acid is highly soluble in water and that a low boil for thirty minutes or so should convert most of the acid. The majority of reports of large doses that I've heard/read have involved delerium. Possibly due to poor ibotenic acid/muscimol conversion, but definitely not something to 'play around' with.

I have heard one first-hand report of "how good" a certain batch dried under indirect HID lighting (ambient temp approx 30C) were. This person used (and had used intermittently over a period of years) these shrooms recreationally and was very impressed..

Think I can remember something about IR or some other specific wavelength of light that decarboxylising ibotenic acid, so perhaps this was a factor.

Regardless, these are a dangerous mushroom and should be treated with due respect.

ed

[SaBReT00tH]

can muscimol potency be destroyed if the shrooms are boiled on low for half an hour, mixture put in fridge, then boiled again on low for half an hour (to make sure all ibotenic acid has converted to muscimol as a safeguard). I'm sure gnomes may be scared of the delirious effects too much unconverted acid could cause, maybe somewhat comparable to datura, and that would not be good!!

[SaBReT00tH]

is oven drying or sun drying absolutely vital to not getting hospitalised or can the ibotenic acid similarly be converted through low boiling twice in 2 x 30 minute sessions?

[teonanacatl]

Just found this now, the reason they taste so good is ibotenic acid is 100 times the flavour enhancer as MSG, once its all gone this wouldnt be the case. Foaf has tried dried caps by eating and swallowing but stopped before a full dose was experienced, a friend however boiled up 5 and drank/ate everything, went into town and after 30mins didnt feel anything so he got pissed and took acid, 1 hour later it hit and he was seeing wild animals running through the clubs, he then drove home and spewed in the back of his car and slept in it. he said it was the best nite ever but his friends said he was delusional and completely out of it muttering wierd stuff etc.

[alkatrope]

 

 

the reason they taste so good

wtf?

 

[ballzac]

wtf?

[teonanacatl]

lol tasted them when the ibotenic acid is still there? i havent but apparently its flavour enchancing. throw half of one in a stew or somthing like that.

[occidentalis]

after 30mins didnt feel anything so he got pissed and took acid, 1 hour later it hit and he was seeing wild animals running through the clubs, he then drove home and spewed in the back of his car and slept in it.

So has your friend learnt anything from this experience?

[alkatrope]

lol tasted them when the ibotenic acid is still there? i havent but apparently its flavour enchancing. throw half of one in a stew or somthing like that.

lol can't say I have.

Not in any hurry to, either..

[Rev]

wtf?

well made amanita jerky is top shit (yeah u know the stuff)

really.

ive never tried fresh ones