Lophophora x Astrophytum

[Guest Mexicali]

This is a Fricii cultivar made by crossing it with an Astro and then impregnating a Diffusa. the result?

A plant with Diffusa's thick tufts, Fricii's deep pink flower and ribs like an Astrophytum.

I hope you enjoy and appreciate its beauty.

[Salvi]

What kind of astro was it? Looks interesting.

[AndyAmine.]

Man, I love freaks!

[M S Smith]

Mexicali, where did you hear about this plant and find the photo? I'm highly interested in the possibility that Lophophora and Astrophytum can cross.

~Michael~

[apothecary]

Damn I love this forum.

[Dodie]

We really need that "creamed pants" emotion

[AndyAmine.]

Kind of looks lika micky mouse but with white hair instread of a black hat. LOL..

[M S Smith]

I am at a loss to understand L. fricii x any Astrophytum, as they seem to be quite different plant evolutionarily. You seem to be saying that the Astrophytum is the maternal plant in your phrasing, but I continue to be at a loss as to why there is not explaination of which Astrophytum the claim is made regarding. Of course I would like to see the flowers as well as a better photo of the plant, a plant which doesn't appear to me to have ribs like an Astrophytum unless the two "wing" like protuberances qualify.

Suspicious,

~Michael~

[teonanacatl]

mike the use of gibberelic acid allows some very strange crosses to be made, the problem then is whether the seeds are viable.

how different are astrophytum and lophophora? they are both in that division that isnt opuntia and isnt columner cactus (i know they grow vertically but i wouldnt call them columner the same i call trichs columner, and they both live in similar regions yeah?

[Guest Mexicali]

Yes, there ARE some freaks out there...

The plant was brought inj from Japan about three years ago.

The beautiful thing about cultivars is that they always pass Quarantine and Customs, since the plant is clearly not a Lophophora but an "Astro Cultivar"

The seller had a number of specimens all looking virtually the same which means that the cultivar seed was quite viable. She is not self-pollinating so I can't get seed out of her.

The code remains property of the designer

[M S Smith]

teonanacatl, Astrophytum actually go so far as to being in the same tribe, but so do Coryphantha and Thelocactus, both of which cover more territory alongside Lophophora than Astrophytum, but of which we find no claims of hybridization, even though Thelocactus certainly would appear to have closer relations to Lophophora as can be suggested by plant morphology and flower structure.

If someone can really provide me some real data on Lophophora x Astrophytum I would listen a little closer, but there is no data here at all and it is right to be skeptical. It is foolish to simply be blindly accepting, I don't care who is making the claim, myself included, this even when we aren't Korean and cloning dogs.

What does "the code remains property of the designer" mean? Does this mean I can't use it? And what is it? Can I not see it or get an explaination of how it works?

I far as I can tell there are some mad Japanese cactus people who are just conducting radiation experiments on Lophophra. I wish there was more being said...and not in riddles; this isn't a mystery school.

Ugh....

~Michael~

[Evil Genius]

Hi,

thank you for posting this pic! I strongly doubt this too being a Lophophora x Astrophytum hybrid. Though i´m not sure if it´s it´s theorethically possible at all, the pic itself is suspicious as it is that unsharp. The Pics looks like it has more to hide than to show. But maybe it´s just a lonesome freak of nature or some uncommon lophophora variant.

[teonanacatl]

but have people tried to cross Lophophora with Coryphantha and Thelocactus? even if people have tried and failed with normal cross pollination techniques there are many other techniques out there. as far as im concerned if it came from japan anything is possible. it looks like it has some loph in it to me and it looks like my Astrophytum myriostigma seedlings with those "wings".

on a side note when somone answers a question with a different answer to mine i will explain to them why i think my answer is right and then ask them y they think theirs is right, in order for me to beleive im incorect they must provide me with a better explanation then mine of the theory behind it etc (thats not to say i dont like being wrong, i learn more when im wrong then when im right, you somtimes just dont see everything that the other person sees) problem with this is most peoples answer is "it just is" or "b'cos" and somtimes they may be right with the theory but in practice it doesnt work that way (remember theory is only 100% correct in a perfect world) and so doing it is the only way.

how does this apply to this thread well maybe it doesnt i dont know but in my opinion taxonomy is flawed in several ways and i dont think taxonomy and geograpical releationships are any use when gauging the possibility of hybrids between plants in cactaceae, we live in an age of great genetic technology. the only thing that will proove or disproove it is to actually do it, this guy has done it and is showing the pictures and although it may not proove it to you now it may do so in a few years when more mature and if that doesnt proove it then well you might havta do it yourself.

[Dodie]

Could we see some more pics pls?

[Jack]

Thanks for sharing mexicali.

[occidentalis]

Could we see some more pics pls?

Yeah I agree

This is an issue of some scientific importance, we need a good quality image of the plant before we can really make any judgements on what it looks like.

[woof woof woof]

Wow cool!

Sorry to ask such a lazy ass question.....

What are the known hybrids that can be made with a lophophora?? ?? ??

this is the kind of edge that I am looking for I think.

Thanks to Pisgah, I have some materials to start with - A Agavoides A furfuraceus A retusus & A kotschoubeyanus.

Now I also have quite a few lophop varieties.

this is definately material that I can start with ( Michael?) I think. I remember reading about Ario & lophop hybrids - ........

hmmmmm

"make funky hybrids with interesting phyto-chem properties!"

[woof woof woof]

http://www.living-rocks.com/neudecker.htm

lazy ass still got the flatulance boost!!! ;)

[Guest Mexicali]

Hello Michael,

I too am curious as to which Astrophytum was used for this apparent hybridization.

As you may know, the Japanese are rather secretive about their methods..."the code remains property of the designer" means that they won't pass me the CODE (the plants used, the pollinating method and the 'surrogate mother' who carries the seed).

Radiation experiments are always being conducted in Japan Hence most of their cultivars The problem is always replicating the result identically. Once you have the amount of radiation required and the exposure time written down, then you can replicate the result at about 60%-80% of the time.

I don't think this plant came from a radiation experiment, because it carries characteristics of both the L. and A. genera...so it does point to hybridization....I'm open to suggestions because I wish to propagate the plant.

teonanacatl, Astrophytum actually go so far as to being in the same tribe, but so do Coryphantha and Thelocactus, both of which cover more territory alongside Lophophora than Astrophytum, but of which we find no claims of hybridization, even though Thelocactus certainly would appear to have closer relations to Lophophora as can be suggested by plant morphology and flower structure.

If someone can really provide me some real data on Lophophora x Astrophytum I would listen a little closer, but there is no data here at all and it is right to be skeptical. It is foolish to simply be blindly accepting, I don't care who is making the claim, myself included, this even when we aren't Korean and cloning dogs.

What does "the code remains property of the designer" mean? Does this mean I can't use it? And what is it? Can I not see it or get an explaination of how it works?

I far as I can tell there are some mad Japanese cactus people who are just conducting radiation experiments on Lophophra. I wish there was more being said...and not in riddles; this isn't a mystery school.

Ugh....

~Michael~

[kadakuda]

any news on this topic?

[Monk]

We should also not exclude the possibility of protoplast fusion in vitro. As has been said, the Japanese do some crazy things with plants and technology.

[Osprey]

I can't see any picture at all.

[CarlDry]

Where's the pics gone???

[paradox]

mexicali probably realized that everyone knows he is full of shit so he took the photo down & ran away & never answered any questions hoping everyone would forget about it. or maybe he sold to to some poor sucker on ebay for $500

[Teotzlcoatl]

I wanna see the pic!

Is it a fake or what???