chilli Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) I have heard TJG contains little to no mescaline... does anyone know if TJG are psychoactive? If they contain little or no mescaline, but are psychoactive, what are the alkaloids that cause a psychoactive effect? Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jack Posted November 5, 2005 (edited) Hi,I recently bought 12 foot of a cactus I was told was a Tom Juul's Giant... I thought this was just a big Pach, but recent research seems to indicate that these are perhaps two different species, although the person I bought it from called it a Pachanoi. I had a little taste test, and compared it to some Pachs I have that I know are psychoactive, and the taste was a little bit different... both had a strong taste which was initially very similar, but the known Pach left a considerably more bitter aftertaste... Does anyone know if these are psychoactive? If they contain little or no mescaline, what are the alkaloids that cause a psychoactive effect, and what kind of effect would it be? A friend of a friend planning on trying one of these soon, so any help would be great, and if not, then I may be able to contact him and will post back with his reports. I and the person I obtained these from are in NZ, if that helps at all. Thanks Mescaline is claimed to be present baesed entirely on human bioassays and there is also claims of some type of additional activity. Most people who have studied believe TJG to be a seperate and apparantly undescribed species. Edited November 9, 2005 by strangebrew Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zee_werp Posted November 5, 2005 Check out my thread on Juuls giants over at the Nook: http://www.thenook.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=38702 (You'll have to be a logged in registered user to access it I think, but its a decent cactus forum so if you're not then you might as well sign up, if anything just to browse some of the large discussions on trichocereus genus etc). The basic gist of it is, they are active, but the active components might not necessarily be mescaline. Something from Shulgins site with regards to Juuls Giant: "I have run gas chromatography mass spectroscopy (GCMS) analyses on extracts from five samples of dried specimens from three different sources. All five showed the presence of mescaline (one as a trace component only) but all five samples displayed totally different composition portraits." LINK: http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/shulgin/bl...wels-giant.html Since you bought it in NZ then I would pay no attention to the 'Pachanoi' label, there have been a lot of Juuls going around labelled as Pachanoi, I bought mine from a garden centre labelled as that, and I don't blame them for the mislabelling either cause they do look damn similar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted November 5, 2005 according to trout the answer can be summarised as ... sometimes anyone got juuls in australia? i was considering importing it but id rather not spend such a large amount if not necessary Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 (edited) Thanks everyone. Edited October 17, 2007 by IllegalBrain Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Hey Rev, according to trout the answer can be summarised as ... sometimesanyone got juuls in australia? i was considering importing it but id rather not spend such a large amount if not necessary I have just been trying to decipher the AQIS import info, and the best I can make of it is that it may have to sit in quarantine for 3 months... is that right to the best of your knowledge? This is probably not much help, but I'll be moving back to Perth for at least 6 months in 2 years, and if you still don't have any by then, I'll halve the import costs with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zee_werp Posted November 8, 2005 Got any pics of the said plants, to see if they look like other juuls or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Hi zee_werp, All I have is some fat log style cuttings, no tips, but I will post some pics next time I get on the net... The lady I bought them from has Trout's notes, and is active on another entheogenic forum, so I kind of trust her... the only thing that I recognize from descriptions I have read is the sunken areoles and almost no spines... Got any pics of the said plants, to see if they look like other juuls or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zee_werp Posted November 8, 2005 Ah yes, if she's got Trouts notes, then she's probably pretty onto it. I'm just sketched out about the ID's from some providers. One distributer I know of sells both Juuls Giant and Scopulicola as Trichocereus pachanoi. etc etc. But yours does sound like it could be juuls, unless its a scop, but I'm assuming you know what a scop looks like (and probably the person you got it off too). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted November 8, 2005 the 3 month post entry thing is pretty standard thes ecacti would i think be one of the safer bets to import easy to inspect, compact, cope well with no roots for extended periods i hope they cope with methyl bromide ill try and find out HM itd cost im keen on juuls, SS02 and cristate forms of the favourite species Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 8, 2005 Hey zee_werp, from my limited experience, it doesn't look like a scop, aside from which, the same person I bought this from has just posted some Scop tips with the next 2 metres of logs... I'm a very happy camper at the moment. Rev... I had a bit of trouble figuring it out exactly, but it seems like it might be as much as $300, and around $20 per cutting... don't take my word on it though, I've only briefly scanned the info AQIS sent me. Also, that's not taking into account the various state import requirements, which I have no idea of. I'll be back in Oz each Christmas, so timing it to be sent maybe August 2006 would work out pretty well for me (allowing for three months import). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zee_werp Posted November 8, 2005 Sounds like you're pretty well sorted!! Maybe its me who should be asking you for cuttings! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted November 8, 2005 GCMS data given in KT's San Pedro supports the notion that Juuls Giant is worthy of further investigation. Mescaline is evidenced to be a minor alkaloid. Perhaps much of it is bound in some digestable complex that shows up as something else? Other clones of plants are also often mentioned as being similar to Juuls in at least one catalog, so there seems to be a bit of material similar in appearance to the TJG plants. Hybrids between Juuls and other plants like Backeberg pachanoi or the spiney macrogonoid SS01 have been made and seed is available down in the States. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rev Posted November 8, 2005 Hybrids between Juuls and other plants yep got those on the way and im sure ill get some SS series hybrids too it would certainly be nice to have the originals as reference though I presume the ex OTJ people have the true juuls? im sure i saw their name in relation to it in trout Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gunter Posted November 8, 2005 Clones labeled A and B of Trichocereus sp 'Juuls Giant' are hard to come by as far as I know, however given that A and B have not (yet?) been crossed to produce seed, then any authentic TJG cutting will do. I think they are available commercially as cuttings (States) from a company or two. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chilli Posted November 10, 2005 Ok, here are some pics... I did get a growing tip this week, which I am assuming is from a pup that grew of the old gnarly bits that I got last week, the only thing that gives me pause is that the younger pieces are a much darker shade of green. Here is a new piece and an old piece side by side... A close up of an old log... A close up of a new piece... The new piece again... And again... And a top down of the new piece... The piece that was apparently bioassayed was the big, light green log. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zee_werp Posted November 10, 2005 That looks like a Juul's to me Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gusto Posted November 10, 2005 Yep, I'd go with it being a Juul's too. For comparison, see Flip's thread showing his flowering Juul's from a couple of months ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Flip Posted November 11, 2005 yeah that looks like a TJJ. when I first got my cuttings it looked VERY MUCH like a T. Pan but that was because it was still a developing pup / branch. She came along nicely with time and into her own features. enjoy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
