'Different world' may demand ID cards: PM

[apothecary]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20050...07/s1415817.htm

The Prime Minister has defended reigniting the debate on a national identity card against accusations it would compromise people's freedoms.

The release of a damning report into immigration detention and the recent London bombings have sparked debate on a national identity card.

Despite opposing the idea when it was raised by the Hawke Labor government in 1987, John Howard now wants the issue back on the table.

After arriving in Washington for talks with the Bush administration, Mr Howard said changed circumstances had come into play.

"The world is very, very different since then and maybe this is one of the things that is needed to be added to our armoury, maybe," he said.

Mr Howard says it is the Government's responsibility to strike a balance between civil liberties and protection against terrorists.

"If you look at it just as a civil liberties issue, you would never change anything," he said. "If you just looked at it as a protection against terrorism issue, you would authorise many changes that people would regard as unacceptable.

"My responsibility and that of the Government is to strike a balance."

However, Cameron Murphy from the Australian Council of Civil Liberties says the Prime Minister would not be considering a national ID card system if he were serious about protecting civil liberties.

Mr Murphy says identity cards will cause too many problems.

"Even if you weigh up national security against civil liberties in the context of a national identity card, you'd have to come down on the side of civil liberties," he said.

[occidentalis]

apothecary:

"If you look at it just as a civil liberties issue, you would never change anything,"

Evidently Mr Howard sees only one acceptable type of 'change' - towards increased control and reduced civil liberties.

[reptyle]

""If you look at it just as a civil liberties issue, you would never change anything," he said. "If you just looked at it as a protection against terrorism issue, you would authorise many changes that people would regard as unacceptable"

he also seems to think that by changing the wording you change the result. what a fucking fuckwit prick shit fuck bastard arsehole muther fucker.

i feel so helpless when i see shit like this. what the fuck are we meant to do to fight this bullshit.

swearing just isnt relieving my anguish like it used to. fuck fuck shit.

maybe someone should stick the national identity card up his arse and see how comfortable he feels with something like that attached to his person for the rest of his life. fuckwit cunt.

[-YT-]

I Agree with Reptyle :D But it will be interesting to see further developments on this issue, and how far Johnny will take it

[Torsten]

anyone know what the Packers think of national ID cards?

seeing as the media has made the oz population receptive to such ideas, it will be the media that will inevitably 'guide' us about the neccessity of the ID card.

any indication from the polls about this issue?

what a fucking fuckwit prick shit fuck bastard arsehole muther fucker.

Couldn't have said it better myself !

[ 18. July 2005, 11:25: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[jasemateau]

cant have it, id cards are for communist countrys, where the fuck are we heading?

[occidentalis]

Torsten:

any indication from the polls about this issue?

Not exactly accurately cnducted, but http://ninemsn.com.au/ has ne n the rnt page.

my girlriend spilt tea n my eybard and it's aving sme truble :mad:

[macro]

apothecary:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/20050...07/s1415817.htm

The release of a damning report into immigration detention and the recent London bombings have sparked debate on a national identity card.

I'm may not thinking hard enough about this, but how the hell is an ID card going to stop terrorism? I can't even think of one factor...

[spaced]

It will end the terror of having to look for your visa card. Just think - you could have all your credit card details, medicare details, in fact your entire health and psychiatric history compiled on a single card which after being whisked through a few magnetic fields would reveal a wealth of information about us which the police could use to help us lead safer, terror free lives. Think of the convenience. I'm only worried I might lose the thing or leave it at home. Maybe it would be easier just to stamp us with barcodes or impregnate us with radio emitting devices.

[Torsten]

creach thanks for making me go to a Ch9 website

anyway, even though the question was phrased in a way to allow a higher positive vote, the no vote was still elading by 15% or so.

The question was specifically designed to skew towards a yes vote as it asked about whether you think an ID card would be effective against terrorism. I am sure many people believe it is (somewhat) effective against terrorism but still would not want to see it implemented. I think at this stage the sheeple are pretty much against it. But then again, a few years before the GST the people were also against that. And now with the government in control of the senate we could have the ID card in a matter of weeks if they really wanted to.

Where to the wet blanket Nationals stand on this issue?

[Rev]

as u woudl gues i hat ethe idea

especially since i regularly lose wallets and licences and all manner of cards

sweet mother fucking useless expensive crap

[Andrew]

Fuck those cards off and get the number tatooed on your hand,cant lose it,cant remove it.What a great way for the governments of the world to make us feel safe and secure. :mad:

[Salviador]

I remember in a recent article on terrorism, John Howard was going on about how we shouldnt let terrorism change the way we live our lives. But now i see he only means that we should continue to go to work every morning to maintain economic stability, anything to do with our freedom and happiness should be ground out of us ASAP!

Perhaps devising a way of invalidating the cards would be the way to go. I think something like the spraying of pot on the trains where sniffer dogs patrol would help with this situation. Maybe installing giant magnetic fields to wipe them in public places, or making fake cards, or starting up a internet group of people who cant seem to hold onto them.. any other ideas?

[Darklight]

John Howard's been in a different world for some years now... probably a far distant solar system with a red sun whose inhabitants recently voted him King Zog.

In a box somewhere in my office I have some of the old anti-ID card blurbs from the 80's... it's tempting to haul them out and see if the arguments have changed

[apothecary]

Some of you may or may not be aware, but the most obvious reason Howard is spouting this bullshit now is because he is going to Britain soon, and that is where the national ID cards are soon to be in effect (they may be in effect already).

These cards can be completely destroyed by 30 seconds in the microwave with no superficial damage whatsoever.

Fuck John Howard, and fuck the national ID card concept.

http://www.ntkmart.co.uk/ntkmart.cgi#No2ID

http://www.no2id.net/

Both those links are British responses to the British national ID bullshit.

[waterdragon]

i can't help but feel that some of you lot don't wish to be catalogued for some reason. get with the program, it's a different world now. i'll be doing my bit for the safety of the nation(apart from being alert and just short of alarmed) and fixing myself an i.d placard which i can carry about, anyone not carrying such an item will be looked upon with suspicion. after all, if you've nothing to hide you surely won't object.

[-YT-]

Waterdragon are u serious? this ID card stuff is absolutely absurd and totally going agaisnt our civil liberties and rights as human beings, I cant believe this is all riding on the back of the london "terrorist" bombings... Most of us here have nothing to hide, and are not criminals, i dont know about u i just wanna be free, and having all my personal info and life etc, on a fucking ID card to b scanned like a bloody barcode... Oh maybe thats wats next

[waterdragon]

Young Tripper:

Waterdragon are u serious?

well, not exactly - i thought the placard might have provided a hint. i'm no fan of the crimes of government and i'll not be voting for howard any time soon, not that it matters.

[ 19. July 2005, 12:33: Message edited by: waterdragon ]

[Torsten]

yeah, lets not forget that last time round it was the labor party that was pushing the 'australia card'!! The only ones we can trust not to bring in a national ID card would be the greens. Ordinarily I would also say that about the democrats, but given the last few years who knows what they'll say yes to....

[-YT-]

:D interesting approach Waterdragon

[ 19. July 2005, 12:51: Message edited by: Young Tripper ]

[Hagakure]

most liberals dont seem in favour of the ID card

the real reason for this recent interest could be what the labor party is suggesting

a smokescreen for damning report into the department of immigration

[Torsten]

you might be right hagakure. it is after all the end of the cyclone season and we should be expecting boatloads of ruthless criminals heading for our shores any day now that need to be locked up immediately. He might not have gotten the milage he sought out of the Tampa affair, so he is trying for a re-run. I am sure australia will swallow it hook, line and sinker.

We need an ID card now or interest rates will rise due to those pesky selfexploding muslims from Indonesia.

What a simple world that twit lives in....

[Prophet]

I'd like to know how they are going to make people get an ID card? will they force them? and put them in jail if they are not willing?

ID cards is only the start, next they will be implanting us with microchips to keep track of us.... 666

[ 20. July 2005, 10:58: Message edited by: Prophet ]

[Torsten]

I want to make it perfectly clear that I am against a national ID card!

But at the same time I should point out that germany has had a national ID card for as long as I can remember, even though germany has some of the most stringent privacy laws in the world. Maybe it is exactly this deep seated understanding and expectation of privacy that allows the ID card to work in germany whereas people in other countries are terrified of it. Take the scandals with the US social security system for example, where insurance companies have access to most data that the government keeps on you and various commercial entities have access to certain sections of the data. Coupled with the constant abuse and privacy theft people in the US cannot trust an ID card.

Australia is no different to the US in that regard. When for example I complained (with witnesses) about my local census collector reading the census papers from our street with his mates at the local cafe nothing was done about it. In germany this person would have been locked up.

When I complained about my bank handing out my secret postal address to an insurance company which in turn sold it to a general mailing list, botht he bank and the insurer were told not to do it again, but with no actual punishment.

If you know that your privacy is protected then you feel a lot more at ease with havign certain details recorded. I mean, the ID card won't really change anything about the data that is already kept about us - it will just make it more streamlined. It might help to prevent pedophiles jumpig from state to state, it might stop some white collar crime, and it might even make things easier for us when we need to open a bank account, but I fail to see just how it is going to help the government all that much, especially in regards to illegals and terrorists. I mean, just look at how many illegal immigrants germany has even after 30 or more years of national ID cards!

[Prophet]

terrorism is the best excuse they have found to take away our rights of freedom. Just like Port Arthur and the gun laws prohibitting people owning fire-arms.

Australians are slow to react and slow to speak out against things like this and they are easily taken advantage of by corrupt government policies.