Kava is safe

[Torsten]

Many would remember the fraccas about people dying from kava consumption in australia and elsewhere. All the people who died or developed liver problems were consumers of commercial kava concentrates, while traditional users in Fiji, Vanuatu and Hawaii who were consuming MUCH larger quantities showed NO liver problems at all. This was a real conundrum for the scheduling authorities and for science. But regardless, the ever vigilant protective authorities like the TGA pulled all kava products off the market. In an unlikely moment of sensibility they did not however prohibit the sale and use of raw kava rootpowder.

Following the scare campaign the kava industry collapsed. Many farms had just invested into new plantations only to find that suddenly the pharma co's were no longer interested in the product that takes at least 3 years to grow.

But now the truth comes out. In the article below the researchers say they have found a hepatoxic alkaloid that is present in the aerial parts of the kava plant, but not in the roots. So what? you might say. Surely the pharma co's did not use a product in their mass marketed preparations that did not have long term historical use??

yes, they did. In the kava boom of 1999 to 2001/2002 the growers could not keep up with production (don't forget there is a minimum 3 year time lag) and kava root prices skyrocketed. At the same time commercially available cheap kava dropped significantly in quality (remember the discussions about headaches from Medicine Garden kava a couple of years ago?). So the pharma co's found that the stems and leaves contain large amounts of kavalactones and used these for making extracts. The growers were happy cos they got rid of the other 50% of the plant, and the pharma co's were happy cos they got the stuff dirt cheap.

Did anyone care about the consumer?? Obviously not. As it turns out the pharma co's have been poisoning us. Negligence?? Profiteering?? Adulteration?? Yes, all of the above. I hope there will be some juicy class action law suits heading their way.

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/...7/ln/ln03a.html

[ 23. April 2003, 01:03: Message edited by: Torsten ]

[Darklight]

So- does anyone else here remember l-tryptophan scare?

A few ppl died worldwide after supplementing their diet in the early 90's with this, and the problem was traced back to dodgy lab practices at a single facility. Instead of simply admitting culpability and fixing this, the US govt decided to schedule l-tryptophan, making it prescription only. Our govt did the same

Funnily enough, this was accomplished around the time the SSRI's appeared on the market. SSRI's are also prescritpion medication, and unlike l-tryptophan are a proprietary product: a pharma company can make much more from their sale than they can from l-tryptophan. Of course it was much more complex than that, but after reading shitloads of stuff on this the above is the conclusion I came to

I think if we hear any more on the kava front it will be a goddamn miracle. Unfortunately I rather suspect the 'kava is bad it kills ppl ' will go on to become part of the ongoing myth od unsafe natural remedies the anti- lobby leaves to ferment in the public domain. In fact I'm surprised the truth made the light of day

[planthelper]

every kava drinker knows to stay away from the

above ground material...

the better material get sold only sliced so the buyer can see, it is top grade.

round slices are no good, they come from above,

irregular shape is root shape and what you look for.

once its pounded, only very experienced people

can tell the grades apart. bad stuff is more powder like whilst the better grades are somehow coarser.

if you travell and you have to buy kava as traditionell wellcome ceremonie gift, allways buy the most expensive stuff, like waka it showes

you are well informed and care for the chief and his timekeeper and they will enjoy it.

ask for hand pounded stuff. kava is a super plant.

shame on the bad pharma people...

[Auxin]

OK dude that freaks me out, today I read one of Dr. Dukes books, Dr. Duke's Essential Herbs, and in the kava section he ADVOCATED using leaves INSTEAD of the roots because you dont have to kill the plant that way, and under contradictions it said there were none! When they find out a car has a deadly defect they can recall them, but you cant recall deadly books.

Since the book was printed in 1999 the only thing I can really blame Dr. Duke for is not reporting that in traditional use leaves are never used.

[ 23. April 2003, 15:51: Message edited by: Auxin ]

[theobromos]

DR Duke, Ha, if he doesn't have the time to research properly, and quote his sources, he is not a scientist.

Having discussed this point at length with a herb supplier I can point out that the stem material is distinctly peppery (with an echinacea-like taste) due to the known alkaloids in the stems. Is this a newly discovered alkaloid or one of the old ones that has been found to be hepatotoxic?

[theobromos]

So read the article, stupid!

Having done so, this alkaloid is one of the well-known ones, only found in the aerial parts in any quantity. The herb company I was badgering had lots of complaints that their product was not effective and foul-tasting, but refused to consider re-testing. If their baby PhD student (really, not even a mature scientist in their testing room) had said it was good, it was good and damn the know-nothing customers.

[gerbil]

haha concerned about the publics safety by taking a substance that may cause liver problems off the market, maybe the same people think that alcohol strengthens our body.

thanks for the kava information though

[spiders]

interesting post - im glad that you have pointed this out.

[lugdun]

Thanks very much for the informative article.

I love kava effects but really I can't bear the taste. I have tried an ethanol extract certified to 30% kavalactones, but perhaps a more traditional methods is the solution, the ideal would be to have got fresh roots, much more powerfull when correctly prepared than dried roots.

Here is an excellent article about kava and its medicinal properties, and amongst others interesting things the molecular structure of the piperidine alkaloid pipermethysticine, discovered originally in leaves but revealed absent in roots.

Kava

[theobromos]

 

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/bulletin/bullet....html?print=yes has the article on Kava by Alexander T Shulgin. The pictures of the formulae are expandable. Though it is rather old, from 1973, the only better resource is the book "Kava, the Pacific Drug" by Lebot, Merlin and Lindstrom.

[somnif]

 

quote:

---

 

If their baby PhD student (really, not even a mature scientist in their testing room) had said it was good, it was good and damn the know-nothing customers.

 

---

Said baby PhD student didn't work for a company

called Pan perhaps?

Given the date you wrote this is a pretty good case

of foretelling future news events; you didn't know

something we didn't eh?

[theobromos]

Predicting pharmaceutical deaths is like predicting the presence of taxes.

It was a British company called something like "The Horrible Apathy".

[ 30. April 2003, 21:54: Message edited by: theobromos ]

[Anodyne]

I know I'm dredging up a very old thread with very little info - but I was speaking to my pharmacology supervisor last week & he mentioned in a discussion about the kava scare that it wasn't just the wrong part of the plant being harvested, it was also thought that using acetone to pull out the goodies was extracting more nasties than the traditional water extraction.

Sorry I don't have more detail than that - but I know that folks have used acetone to make their own extracts, and just wondered if it'd be worth reviewing the details - I've just been looking for a paper about it but have drawn a blank so far.

[Tryptameanie]

Ano- ask him for a reference on that and repost the details in a new thread.

This should be made widely known, as I imagine many people produce kitchen-chem acetone extracts for personal use and sale.

[Torsten]

The main issue was the hepatoxic alkaloid in the aerial parts of the plant. This would be highly concentrated in the pharmaceutical extracts. However other research also indicated that there might be more complex issues.

The main thing being looked at is the fact that kavalactones will bind to certain sulphur containing amino acids and form a water soluble and highly absorbable complex in slightly alkaline conditions. It just so happens that kava roots contain large amounts of these sulphur containing amino acids. The added benefit is that these amino acids are liver protecting. So, not only do they increase the absoption of the lactones and hence reduce the required dosage, but they also protect the liver from the lactones and anything else that might be floating around.

The problem with extracts is that most pharmaceutical extracts were done with 95+% ethanol, or even butanol. Home extracts were often done with acetone. These solvents do not pull out ANY of the amino acids, and hence ingesting the extract would not provide for the liver protection.

The traditional water emulsion is very righ in the amino acids, but water as an extraction solvent for the lactones is difficult to work with on an industrial scale. Research has shown that using 70% ethanol and 30% water as the extraction solvent will extract both the lactones and the amino acids in good yields.

To stick even closer to the traditional method of ingestion someone in vanuatu has developed a method that starts off with the traditional water emulsion. This is then decanted to remove most of the solids and the liquid is frozen and then lyophilised (freeze dried). The resulting powder is the equivalent of "instant coffee". It contains everything that the traditional brew contains.

[planthelper]

i remeber the fijians told me that, the deposits formed in the wooden kava bowls, get scraped together once in a while, and compromise of very strong material.

[Peace4thepeaceful]

what about taking something like silybum to protect the liver with kava extracts. Also would acetone extract be harmful to the liver or full stop if smoked?