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Piers Gibbon

cactus identity parade..mysteries (image heavy)

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Apologies for image-heavy post

Spring has sprung in England...so it's time to be kind to cacti and I'd be very grateful if you could help me ID two large dusty mysteries that neither my mate nor i can remember the origin of...

I've had to cut one due to falling over (the plant not me)...and the other hasn't been getting enough light or love recently...

Just to calibrate the sensors allow me to introduce PEDRITO the San Pedro strain I've been growing for over 20 years...so i'm hoping you'll say it's Trichocereus pachanoi. As sold to me by Abbey Brook Cactus Nursery....

PLANT ONE

pedrito1.jpg

PLANT TWO... any idea what this is (below)...4 different angles of one plant - PLANT TWO

mystery1a.jpg

PLANT TWO

mystery1b.jpg

PLANT TWO

mystery1c.jpg

PLANT TWO

mystery1d.jpg

PLANT THREE (below) Or this, branching one...again, 3 different views of one plant...PLANT THREE

mystery2a.jpg

PLANT THREE

mystery2b.jpg

PLANT THREE

mystery2c.jpg

PLANT THREE

[ 20. February 2004, 09:23: Message edited by: Piers Gibbon ]

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piers,

your pachanoi looks very pretty

the 2nd one...

just a guess-

neoraimondia spp. ???

dont know really..

:)

[ 20. February 2004, 07:31: Message edited by: mulch ]

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well thank you...Pedrito is a beauty...

I guess I should number them to make this thread easier

Plant One is Pedrito

Plant Two is...

Plant Three is.....

now, which one did you think might be Neoraiwatsit?

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the first is a bridgesii im pretty sure....

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the reason i say this is cause it only has four ribs. most bridgesii have long spines but there is also short spined variety.

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Plant Two:

Neoraimondia arequipensis or

Neoraimondia herzogiana? or

Neoraimondia macrostibas.

it looks remarkably similar to a N. arequipensis i've got in the garden..

can someone with a bit more cacti knowledge comment on this please?

Plant Three.. i'm not even going to guess at..

good luck piers

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caapi - bridgesii has MUCH longer spines. I think this is probably a pachanoi or scopolicolus. The four sided thing isn't unusual - it can be induced by growing your cutting in a smaller pot then the parent plant. We have lots of scops and 'Lance' that are foursided.

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piers. you say youve grown this strain for 20 years,what amount of ribs had the original?

if you can remember?

torsten,have you ever seen a 4 ribbed pachanoi?

[ 21. February 2004, 08:59: Message edited by: mr b.caapi ]

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thanks for all responses...are we all referring to the same photos?

plant one..pedrito...the one in the photo actually has five ribs...just checked...other pups and cuttings have five and six...there's sixes pupping from fives and vice versa...and one five pupping from a big seven! but no fours...

am currently tracking down earlier photos of my cacti.. abbey brook knew their stuff even back in the 1980's - an entirely respectable business, they were well aware of loph and san pedros spiritual side...they even brought over a huichol family to visit and bless the plants...so I assume they would have collected the original pedro from a good, quite likely shamanic source.

plant two has four ribs at the top..who is he?

hey SAB is the best, thanks for all your help

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plant 1 has 5 ribs!! well shit, there goes my theory lol.... :D

sorry dont mind me. :confused:

[ 21. February 2004, 09:00: Message edited by: mr b.caapi ]

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Guest electro

1) id say is a scop (i have several of these .. ahrdy but terrible to graft onto)... spineless pedro (they say the 4 ribbed ones are most potent, 5 are also revered ... nice find) it definatley is not bridgesii ... they have much larger spines.

2) is a cerus of sorts ... the thin ribs and the curvy lines (in out in out all the way up). Also the dark fluffy mound that the spines come from is something i havent seen on anything tric (if you get spiked by these they get infected VERY easily)

these are everywhere in northwestern sydney (richmond through to windsor through to whatever suburb wonderland is in (btw wonderland is closing soon, so if you want to go do it soon).

I have tried extracts from these and found them mildly sedating .. it adds the warmth to a pedro experience that is missing, but with 2kg wet flesh needed to add this warmth, it is not worth it ... nice cactus though if you dont let it get ratty ... dont graft onto it either, lophs seem to have a reaction to it - they go black within 2 days then turn to goo, with the discolouration starting at the join between the cerus and the loph

3)id like to call 3 peruvian torch, but its ribs look too thin. the spines look almost right (although i dont have one to compare to so i may even be wrong on that)... if i had to hazard another guess .. it would be that 3 is in the cerus family again, not the tric family but not the same variety as 2.

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Originally posted by mr b.caapi:

torsten,have you ever seen a 4 ribbed pachanoi?

yes, we have them every now and then. They tend to revert to 5 ribs or more when potted up.

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are 4 sided pedros more potent? i thought they were just sacred and regarded as "4 winds" or something simular to that but no difference in potency.

Is it uncommon to have a 4 sided scop? coz i got a beuty?

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The first picture is without a doubt a T. pachanoi. It certainly is not a T. bridgesii and isn't a T. scopulicola based on a couple things. T. scopulicola has a rough (matte) skin that is not very reflective of light as this clipping certainly is. T. pachanoi has a highly reflective waxy skin. Another thing quite distinctive between the two is the way the tip grows. T. scopulicola has a somewhat more distinctly club shaped tip. The tip on this plant is quite clearly like that of a T. pachanoi. This is obviously a young rooted tip of T. pachanoi that is of rather small diameter. If this plant was grown in an environment that offered more lighting I believe it would take on the standard features of a T. pachanoi, but unfortunatly the environment seems to be limiting its diameter and proper areole and spination development.

The other two are, I believe, Cereus of some sort, but just which I am not sure at the moment. I'll break out some books and get back to you. I don't believe either of them are Neoraimondia.

~Michael~

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Many thanks for all replies...

glad that Pedrito's identity crisis is over

and sadly that's as thick as they tend to get..normal light levels in england are a bit of an issue. you have to pay extra...

and thanks for cracking open the books for the other two...the question is - do i propagate them manically or modestly?

cheers

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bump

just wanted to say that I've been paying very close attention to Pedrito the San Pedro pictured above...lots of different cuttings grown in lost of different ways

Interestingly Michael - that is basically the normal spination and areole for Pedrito strain - even on ones grown in lovely conditions. Plenty of rootspace, light and love does however lead to bigger diameters

I'll take another photo at the end of this season - october - and see what you think

any ideas on the other two - to be honest if your instinct is that they are not of shamanic note then that's all i need!

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Am i correct in using the direction of spine growth to differentaite between pacahnaoi and scop?

The pachs the spine point out and slightly up whereas the scops point down slightly

check it out on you plants and tell me if this works.

Whatever #3 is ive got a few the same.

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Number one is exactly like my pach. :)

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1.Trich.pachanoi.

2.Cereus argentinensis

It's the only 4 ribbed one I can find that fits the spines.

3.Cereus forbesii - going on that last shot in particular.

[ 13. April 2004, 00:50: Message edited by: strangebrew ]

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many thanks for replies

rev...spination...haven't got a scop to compare but on my pach the spines point up down and sideways!

hey mescalito that's great, wonder if they are the same strain? i guess we'll never know without a paternity test or bioassay

i call mine pedrito

and thankyou strangebrew for those id's

and are those two shamanic in any way in your experience?

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No worries Piers, if I'm right you owe me a beer.

You're back in Old Blighty, yeah? Have an 'Old Peculiar' dark ale for me. Really miss those, they don't import them here anymore. :(

Michael Smith will probably shoot my ID's down in flames one day but here's hoping!

No I don't think any cereus is shamanic by themselves but you never know what those wily old shamen could do with plant mixtures.

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