Changes To Lophophora williamsii Law

[Starward]

Came across a comment by a Victorian based commercial scale cactus grower on FB (01/07/2025), where he stated that he was selling all his Peyote stock and would not be planting seeds again because he expects that peyote would soon be made illegal in Australia.

 

I have always worked under the believe that under federal law peyote and san pedro are illegal but because of how drug laws are implementation at state levels, states like Victoria allow growth and sale, just no consumption.

 

Are there changes in the wind, when it comes to law, that I am not aware of?

Edited June 30, 2025 by Starward

[wachumacallit]

Probably the last person I'd take legal advice from would be a commercial scale cactus grower on FB.

 

Self-appointed deputies of the DEA, like eBay Inc., are always (or at least, sporadically) making it tougher to sell these plants online in Oz. The fact that the plants may be legal in your state for ornamental and horticultural purposes, makes no difference to the multinational juggernaut. I know of at least one peyote grower in Melbourne who's moved their entire venture over to Gumtree. They don't seem terribly happy with the situation either.  That said, plenty of high-volume sellers sitting pretty on eBay, evidently without fear of being de-listed for drugs policy violations. 

 

Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on approval to join the FB trichocereus auctions group ... otherwise I signed up to FB for nothing.

 

Two (potential) developments make me somewhat anxious about legal status. Firstly, certain entrepreneurial folks making a big noise about mescaline-containing cactus in the Oz mainstream media, and online. This strategy seems short-sighted, and potentially counter-productive to the goals of a broader community. Secondly, any pending TGA application for therapeutic mescaline (synthetic or otherwise) would provide a financial incentive for a crackdown on home gardeners. 

 

It's a grey area, to say the least. But maybe it's better that way?

[Starward]

So it may not be the state law that makes peyote sales illegal but the moralizing "multinational juggernauts" that could be a greater concern.

 

I signed up to FB trichocereus auctions group just last week, it took two days. I am sure they will get to you.

 

23 hours ago, wachumacallit said:

otherwise I signed up to FB for nothing.

 

So true, FB is an open sewer, I always feel dirty dealing with it.

 

23 hours ago, wachumacallit said:

certain entrepreneurial folks making a big noise about mescaline-containing cactus in the Oz mainstream media, and online.

 

Yes agreed 100% - I know the ones you are talking about.

 

23 hours ago, wachumacallit said:

pending TGA application for therapeutic mescaline (synthetic or otherwise) would provide a financial incentive for a crackdown on home gardeners.

 

I see little value in therapeutic Mesacline, it not dose potent, its to long acting for psychedelic therapy, it can have a body load. Maybe synthetic analogs might be interesting for researchers the likes of Shulgen.

 

The fraction of cactus growing community who use cactus is just to small to warrant any rational government spending billions to go ripping out all cacti out of law abiding citizens gardens. I doubt the police would have the time or inclination to bother to know the difference between a Peruvian apple and San Pedro or a Mammillaria and a peyote. Not to mention shutting down and compensating botanical gardens, Bunnings, horticultural suppliers, small growers and places like Cactus World for the lost of investments, tourism and business. And I could have a 1000 peyote growing in my house and no one would ever know.

 

I never have a heard a sensationalist media report of some child being hospitalized or killed after experimenting with cactus. Even with the likes of Brugmansia, or morning glory, where the rare silly kid will play with it get sick but its simple not worth the police time to become gardeners.

 

I know an old couple who have a machete from WW2 and they are not going to be handing it in to the government and I doubt the police are going to be smashing in their doors to get to it.

 

Look at the BS situation around home distilling. Distilling is 100% illegal with heavy fines and prison terms. Yet everywhere you go every man and his dog is home distilling. The police don't care. They have bigger problems.

 

This is why sane and rational governments simple make distilling legal, and regulate all drugs on an open market.

 

Drugs are only a problem when they are illegal.

 

 

 

 

 

[wachumacallit]

22 hours ago, Starward said:

I signed up to FB trichocereus auctions group just last week, it took two days. I am sure they will get to you.

 

I signed up twice, once probably 2 years ago, and more recently. Still waiting ...

[Starward]

@wachumacallit 

 

Do you have an avatar on your account - sometimes groups reject you if lack an avatar.

 

Otherwise just keep trying - Or message administrators direct to find out what is going on.

Edited July 5, 2025 by Starward

[wachumacallit]

On 7/4/2025 at 7:46 PM, Starward said:

Do you have an avatar on your account - sometimes groups reject you if lack an avatar.

 

I tried this too, nada. But maybe I'm trying to join the wrong group. Only half a dozen or so Oz cactus / tricho / sacred cactus groups on FB. 

[Starward]

These are the two I joined and had no problem

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/232618545864/

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1316453921842330/

 

They are both with Torsten Wiedemann

[wachumacallit]

I've applied to both. Applications still pending. 

[saguaro]

On 7/1/2025 at 7:02 AM, Starward said:

 he expects that peyote would soon be made illegal in Australia.

 

 

What could he be basing this on? As far as I'm aware there's been no public proposal to amend laws to criminalise growing certain cacti, and I doubt this grower has an insider in Parliament.

 

People have been discussing whether peyote/trichos will be made illegal on this forum and elsewhere for decades now. The recent media is probably the most mainstream exposure these cacti have ever received. That is the only thing I can think of that would prompt pearl-clutchers to write to their MP about the cactus scourge destroying our youth. Even still, I doubt it would earn enough political brownie points to prioritise it as an issue.

 

The TGA angle is possible, but I also agree the therapeutic uses in a mainstream context of mescaline are limited for a few reasons compared to something like psilocybin. The cost of a 12 hour session + burnout of practitioners etc.

 

 

 

Edited July 26, 2025 by saguaro

[Starward]

@wachumacallit Well I have been booted from Facebook, this is the 5th times. I am over it. They say I was breaking their community standards, funny thing is all I have done is joined two groups and. I get kicked off the platform again and again. 

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

On 7/9/2025 at 6:46 AM, wachumacallit said:

I've applied to both. Applications still pending. 

i dont moderate the fb group right now, but generally if your account is less then three months old or looks like a burner account. it wont be accepted.

 

People get upset at this sometimes, but it does prevent a heap of scam sellers ripping off members. 

[wachumacallit]

^ Good to know. I somehow got a foot in the door, it's honestly about the best FB group I've found so far. Not just some dude and his old lady + 8927 followers. 

[saguaro]

This thread came to mind again recently.

 

That seller is pretty well known in the aus cactus community, their business is named after Lophs. I hope they wouldn't do this in bad faith to pump up Loph sales, that would be pretty deceptive. Buyer beware though IG. I'd like to think they genuinely expect it to be rescheduled for whatever reason.

 

If I had fb I would ask them directly what their reasoning is

[Starward]

I think what this is that not Australian Law, but rather mega corps like Facebook, Gumtree, eBay, cracking down on all plants that the US government deems illegal or of concern.

 

If you try to list on many websites you have to use alternative spellings or words like sacred, magical or shamanic for the these plants and you cannot state genus or any specific details without falling foul of their corporate policies. Most sellers seem to use very vague descriptions. A way I have found around the censers is to add the details of the plant to photos as text. It does not look like the mega corps are scanning and reading text in photos but I know that this can be done via AI. 

 

I have tried to sell some trichos through Gumtree, and the advert just disappear like magic no explantation, I think the bot removes them, I have been given warnings on eBay that these plants are drugs and that I am breaking US law by using eBay to sell them, and I have had my account payments threatened by eBay for breaking US law.

 

I have tried to sign up several times to Facebook, but my account(S) has been frozen, locked or banned with no recourse to ask for a review. I think my IP, and my computers are blacklisted. Because I tried to sell some "drug" plants on Facebook marketplace.

 

I have just given up. 

 

I believe the aim of governments and the mega corps is to constrict the sale of these plants to such a degree without overtly making them illegal. 

 

I have thought about having a market stall selling my excess plants but I suspect the local boys in blue would pay me a visit.

 

I wish i could sell or give away plants on here but the community is so small their is no movement.

 

 

[wachumacallit]

The trick to listing on eBay without being molested is to be a VOLUME seller. That big end of town is untouchable. But if you're a small-time hobby gardener, you are more likely to be picked off and hung out to dry, so that eBay can have its cake and eat it too: curry favour with law enforcement and still enjoy the lion's share of profits from (ahem) "illicit" cactus sales! As a former seller, this eBay policy -- or rather, the way it's unevenly applied -- caused me no end of frustration. A seller with high turnover is free to list blatant "drugs policy" violations, indefinitely, whereas I couldn't even list a generic "cactus plant" without provoking prompt censure, incriminations, threats, etc. You can always appeal the eBay decision, with mixed results in my experience. It's getting harder all the time.

 

One suspects some rather dubious ethical practices, among those eBay sellers who've invested heavily in TulipMania 2.0 as their business model. The worst I ever did was to report 30 local listings (as per eBay's recommendation that I do so) ... all to no avail. The eBay investigative team found "nothing to see here folks," at all. Go figure. 

 

My sister set up a little plant stall out front of her house, and cleared $2K in a weekend. But she had a lot of pedestrian exposure.

If you know someone on FB, maybe they could advertise plants on your behalf? My mum does that for people, but she has her own "drugs policy" to enforce.  

 

For what it's worth, you've probably dodged a bullet by not being involved with either eBay or Facebook. I'm still weighing up whether selling a few plants on FB is worth the demoralising invasion of privacy, dealing with unknowable "friends," unwanted advertising, etc. On FB, nothing is sacred. 

 

I'd like to see this site become a viable alternative to eBay/FB monopoly. For the moment, it's mostly just tumbleweeds.  

[saguaro]

I have experienced the same thing @wachumacallit.

I had ads reported and taken down by a seller selling the same item. They allowed the other ads to remain, but any time I posted an ad it was automatically taken down.

Fuck eBay. They blacklist specific accounts from selling items that others are allowed to sell with impunity.

[wachumacallit]

There's nothing quite like an exasperated eBay customer service rep, at a call centre somewhere in Asia, desperately clutching at straws in order to justify the delisting of your items. I had one mention the DEA, who must have been alerted by my generic "cactus plant" listing, so very far from US territory. Next the eBay rep furnished an unrelated botanical name, and said: "look, see? that's a prohibited plant!" (it was an environmental weed, completely unrelated to any of my gardening pursuits). They would never name names, in terms of being flagged or reported by another eBay member; but surely one should have the right to know if that's the case. What's even more offensive is that eBay member X can successfully report Y, but not (as I proved to my own satisfaction) the other way around. That's dodgy as fuck -- and the corporation has the audacity to accuse me of wrongdoing? 

Edited September 25, 2025 by wachumacallit