Drug Bros and Their Toxic Hypermasculine Culture

[Starward]

My apologies if the following post offends.

 

I have gotten on in years and have experienced more than my fair share of subcultures and hobbies.

 

Most of these tended to be male-dominated subcultures and hobbies. These have included woodworkers, both high end designer-makers and hobbyist, martial arts, where I have trained with police and active-duty military personnel, and Hindu and Buddhist meditation groups over the years.

 

Woodworkers are 99.5% lovely people, keen to share knowledge and skills and to advance the craft; a touch introverted is the worst you could say about them. Martial artists tend to be polite, considerate, and well-mannered, even considering a few of them have been in active combat deployments. Never have I experienced aggression from people who are professional killers. The same can be said for the meditation groups; for the most part, they are lovely people, sometimes a little ideological, but all good. I have never encountered hyper-aggressive behavior until I came in contact with the plant drug bro culture.

 

My encounters with the drug bro plant culture have been rather disappointing. Very often, they are selfish men, always willing to take, with a thought process that is very much "how much can I get out of this sucker," and not wanting to ever give anything back. A few I have met really do not care about plants, ethnobotany, or the culture; they just see plants as a semi-legal means to get fucked up. There is also a strong hyper-masculine aggressive streak, this desire to prove to others that they are right at all costs, that runs through this drug bro culture. In PM discussion a member commented to me that many of the most fucked-up people are plant people, and my experience to date has confirmed this.

 

It seems to me that many of these drug bros never learned anything from their plant teachers about connection, compassion, love, community, or empathy. I have come to believe that psychedelics do not make you a better person; they just manifest whatever your base personality is that you started with. A good person will become a saint. But an asshole will just become a bigger asshole, and most people seem to start out as assholes. It could also be that these people are engaged in illicit activities and hide behind their warrior keyboards and have never developed basic human courtesy. Its no wonder that in this space there are so few woman when toxic masculinity is the only thing on the cultural menu.

 

The funny thing is that I have known three men who have killed other men in combat; they were never aggressive, nor were they ever rude. I reason that if you have killed and you have the means to kill people, there is no need to bluster and try to intimidate others. However, if you are strung out on drugs, with no true human connections, you might feel the need to make a feeble attempt to intimidate a stranger online.

 

Now on here SAB there are three or four genuine nice guys. I sense that are older, and I have figured that they have fought their demons which have tempered them. I have however seen aggression from some members towards others, however nothing that compares to the larger social media spaces.

 

My interest was first in the plants, then spiritual matters secondarily. I have never had any inclination to use plants in a recreational manner. Maybe I am not a true bro, too weak to be a real man or maybe I am just to old. I have come to feel that this plant space is not a healthy space, maybe I should just stick to hanging out with killers and murders they are far more pleasant folks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 24, 2025 by Starward

[rottenjonny]

Interesting topic, and completely at odds with everyone I've spoken through on this forum. Maybe I've just been lucky.

 

I thought most of the drug bros we're on FB anyway.

[saguaro]

The people I've met and interacted with IRL who share an interest in plants and ethnobotany were, in aggregate, generous and 'good' people by my standards. I have definitely met a minority of people who I found selfish or disagreeable. There's no obligation to interact with them. My experience in martial arts is that there are some bad-natured people in the mix despite a lot of good ones. Same same but different.

 

If you are judging the ethnobotany community off Facebook posts I think you will form a biased and negative opinion. I think SAB Facebook and even subreddits for psychoactive plants are fairly toxic. People attack and post caustic comments on impressive acheivements like well-designed hydro systems, flowering plants, tissue cultures, plant research etc. etc.

[Starward]

Certainly Social Media is way worse then here - however regrettable it seems that all the action is on social media. There are definitely only 5 - 10 regular contributors here which makes it a little slow. But its a trade off. Social media bring out the worst in people and shit tend to rise to the top.

 

I have meet some drug bros IRL and they did not impress me at all. I was tempted to go to formal psychedelic events however I really am not keen to be abused and berated by some 25 year old strung out of what ever and is definitely not the kind of space I would bring a female partner.

 

The more I experience and understand about psychedelics the more I think that most people should stay the f#ck away from them. As a culture we are to immature to handle them.

 

Certainly their are certain types of martial arts that attracts the aggressive persona, the whole kick boxing, MMA, BJJ crowd trade in the same toxic masculinity. However in the Aikido, Kendo, Koryu community the vibe is very different.

 

I am old enough to know the interest before social media and it was way better when people where part of smaller dedicated communities. I belong to a big woodworking forum and 20 years ago it was pumping today is mostly a small sowing circle of old blokes.

 

However I was ready a NyTimes article about online dating, and how all dating platforms are running at huge losses and many being hounded by creditors. This is because people have come to realize that virtual anything is never as good as the real thing. I can only hope that this realization spreads and we see the demise of social media.

 

 

[saguaro]

Yeah this forum is super slow compared to 15 or so years ago. I keep coming back because of how awesome and inspiring it was when I was younger.

[wachumacallit]

I relate toxic masculinity more to hydroponic black-market weed syndicates -- bogan wannabe mobsters. The blokes I knew in that scene aggressively disrespect plants, women, ecology, and anything that resembles a "woke" minority. It's scary. Boozy environments can also be pretty toxic, if you expand your definition of drugs/plants. Social media has only amplified general ignorance, tragically. 

 

That said, I can think of at least one high-profile male entrepreneur in the Oz psychedelics space who probably fits the bill. 

Edited June 26, 2025 by wachumacallit

[saguaro]

1 hour ago, wachumacallit said:

I relate toxic masculinity more to hydroponic black-market weed syndicates -- bogan wannabe mobsters.

 

People like that sucked for sure. Medical cannabis will hopefully make that crappy PGR bikie bud and its dealers fade into obscurity.

 

I dunno if those ppl would consider themselves or be considered part of the ethno / plant medicine community though

[immanuel]

For the tithe!

[saguaro]

On 6/27/2025 at 12:42 PM, immanuel said:

For the tithe!

 

I don't get it

[Starward]

19 hours ago, saguaro said:

 

I don't get it

 

immanuel has stated that he has Schizophrenia his posts are difficult to understand or follow.

[Starward]

On 6/25/2025 at 3:58 PM, saguaro said:

Yeah this forum is super slow compared to 15 or so years ago. I keep coming back because of how awesome and inspiring it was when I was younger.

 

I see so much that SAB could be again, and wish that was more active. I fear that it will one day be totally lost when Torsten passes or it is web archived. Since it runs at a loss, and has little community engagement.

 

Social media has become one of humanities greatest folly being the root cause of so many contagions that all society faces today, from anti-faxxers, anti-science, maga trumpers, anti-culture, and anti-expertise, climate change deniers, hatred, bigotry, culture wars, and tribalism just for a start. 

 

I honestly have come to question the value of the internet itself. Their is nothing it has really honestly improved. Even the few things like instant real time weather reports disconnects us from going outside to look at the weather, and talking to people about what might happen with the weather. Through Maps people with instant access to mapping technology have lost the possibility of getting lost and having an adventure, going of the beaten track and meeting new people and seeing new places. Because the map show the fastest convenient way but not necessarily the best way.

 

We have lost to much.

 

Edited June 29, 2025 by Starward

[immanuel]

I had a spiritual awakening from a website I found online. It definitely has some conducive value.

[ehteam]

Internet information is handy but..... According to the internet 11 people had died from the medication I was on. I asked this question to a doctor, who was a guest speaker at a function, his answer was don`t believe everything you read on the internet, sad but true.

[SayN]

On 6/24/2025 at 4:54 PM, Starward said:

...Very often, they are selfish men, always willing to take, with a thought process that is very much "how much can I get out of this sucker," and not wanting to ever give anything back...

 

I'm not sure what circles you're mixing in there but this is absolutely the opposite of my experience.  Try getting along to an APS event would be my best advice for a start.  https://www.psychedelicsociety.org.au/

 

And "Drug Bros"?  There are quite a few sisters about too, so again, maybe you've just been at the wrong events.

 

EGA - another great org and more specifically plant orientated: https://www.entheogenesis.org/

 

I'm not saying the type of person you describe does not exist, but i'd say "very rarely" instead of "very often".

[saguaro]

6 hours ago, Wood Chuck said:

Internet information is handy but..... According to the internet 11 people had died from the medication I was on. I asked this question to a doctor, who was a guest speaker at a function, his answer was don`t believe everything you read on the internet, sad but true.

 

Where you able to look up pharmacovigilance info? Possibly a better source

[immanuel]

I know people don't believe in these things but my time spent around the SAB community (which is mostly online) was rife with psychic attacks as I was trying to pursue a path of diligence in meditation. There is the evil shamanism within these communities for sure. Just like the question that was posed to me some years ago "What remains?". What else can be found a part from my own personal experience of these wicked tendencies?

[-RC-]

I have personally met heaps of cool people through this forum, and have experienced pretty much nothing but generosity and good vibes. Big love to all those lurkers out there who think they are hiding - we can all smell the earth on your hands 😉

[wachumacallit]

20 hours ago, SayN said:

I'm not saying the type of person you describe does not exist, but i'd say "very rarely" instead of "very often".

^ I'd say so too. Most of the folks I've dealt with here, and in person, have become terrific allies. Once in a while I've been ripped off too -- rarely, in my experience. 

 

There's a problem in public perception, when the ABC goes directly to a couple of egregious hustlers and entrepreneurs for its information, rather than say APS or Entheogenesis Australia.  

[immanuel]

It is a cult wavelength. Freemasonry secrecy. It is corrupt.

[El Presidente Hillbillios]

i think the problem is the same with most circles of people. When you're looking in from the outside the noisiest people are heard first. They're not always a good representative of the whole demographic; you might have to dig a little more to find the people that are genuine and humble 

[Caster]

On 7/27/2025 at 6:39 PM, El Presidente Hillbillios said:

i think the problem is the same with most circles of people. When you're looking in from the outside the noisiest people are heard first. They're not always a good representative of the whole demographic; you might have to dig a little more to find the people that are genuine and humble 

wise words, those who shout loudest are heard first. and more often than not do not represent the majority. 

my experience has been nothing but good, I would say in general my experience atlking to people from this community has been much better than the average interaction with random people, keep looking and you'll find some good ones. 

[Fenris]

I have so many good memories from 15+ years ago, I had been to my 2nd EGA conference and had a wonderful time and met so many sound folks. I think the problems are often associated with those who are trying to monetise the hobby in some way. When $$ are involved the unsavoury do seem to follow.

Outside of people who are trying to make a dollar, I reckon a vast majority of plant heads I have met are great people.

Facebook has diminished the forum for sure.

[wachumacallit]

On 8/4/2025 at 6:13 PM, Fenris said:

When $$ are involved the unsavoury do seem to follow.

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

Edited December 10, 2025 by wachumacallit

[Buttsack]

On 8/4/2025 at 8:24 PM, wachumacallit said:

The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil.

Kinda.. the actual problem is debt being the governing factor to wealth, along with usery as the main way to "get ahead". This doesn't leave much room for the creative loving human, and if they stick their head out it'll be kicked back into the dirt by someone who hasn't worked a day in their life but somehow they are an "investor", which is a copout coz they don't invest shit and use debt, which is inflation. Then those who actually have to live on a weekly income from work are hit with inflation (hidden tax) and those in debt can borrow more.

It's a rigged game. Larry and Shane want to buy the same house. Larry doesn't work, Shane is a builder. Only Larry can get the loan though coz his income come from his other rental properties. Shane's current rent is counted as an expense against him. So Larry has more access to capital and Shane has to then rent from Larry. Haha it's so so silly.

The rental economy is what's destroying society. A way to enforce classism, which has never changed. Still the same aristocrats running the show. Still the same religions mutilating children's genitals then religous leaders sucking the blood. These people have much more money and power than anyone.

The leaders literally dream of armageddon/the rapture.

Anyway this forum is the best place to find legit plant people. The effort is part of it and it's why bush doofs were great place to awaken, coz only those who are gunna drive 3 hours in the middle of nowhere are gunna go, only those who wanna be there. Too much effort for the drones, and it's same with plants. People just wanna hand money over and get something in return. I see how dodgy the fiat currency system is and their money ain't worth shit, beyond me needing to pay bills. I've refunded plenty of people coz I got busy and couldn't meet their time frame.

And yeah as OP said, what society deems as the "bad guys" aren't actually that bad. They are humans in a fucked up environment trying to survive. You can see it in people. Everyone is just surviving. I blame those at the top before I blame the guy stealing a loaf of bread. Even the guy stabbing someone for a loaf of bread is more trustworthy than a lawyer who will take your house in fees if given the chance, even when they already have several. It's all backwards.

 

[Buttsack]

On 8/4/2025 at 6:13 PM, Fenris said:

When $$ are involved the unsavoury do seem to follow.

Also, just gunna add that the money aspect brings a lot of egos into the plant world that otherwise wouldn't. Weed is a great example coz I know so many gardeners who got into plants coz they wanted to grow weed, either for money or to get high. We all have an ego and it needs rewards to be motivated. I help others coz I get a good feeling out of it, not for them, but for myself. So my help is selfish, but also as selfless as it gets coz I don't expect or need a thanks, coz I did it for me. So this means I can help without recourse if they don't appreciate it or say thanks.
Sure the money brings some issues, but as I said above that's coz the money is coming from a dirty place, and those with it didn't really earn it.
Trading changes things. Take money out of the equation and that's how these forums used to operate. Facebook brings out a lot of unsavory characters coz it's easy to join, then blow wind up each other's arse, and I'm banned from plenty of groups there coz I out their bullshit. Ego trippers galore. Society is a dumpsterfire/sinking ship. Stay well clear if you don't wanna be burned/sucked down with it. Rats are last to escape..