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apothecary

One teensy step for mankind, one slightly larger step for me

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Ive said it somwhere before ill say it again, i was crazey long before i started smoking weed. PTSD from year 3. over a year it turned into a faulty pineal gland that doesnt produce serotonin, which translates into bi-polar. or so im told.

good on ya apoth, people need to have to balls to stand up for their choices. i remember when i told my old lady i smoked, "heroin next" she said. well 10 years latter she is still wrong.

And about depression, yes there are people who get sad for a day and get themselves medicated. but dont be an arogant fuckhead and put the real sufferers in the same catagory.

From reading this i can clearly see who has no fucking insight or experience with ANY mental condition! and NO im not naming people, it is too self evident!

People need to accept that WEED IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY! i mean fuck, its all over the place that different drugs react differently with different people but most still wanna place stereotypes!

What the hell happened to H.E.M.P (Help End Marijuania Prohobition)?

I AM A MENTAL MARIJUANIA ACTIVIST AND DAM PROUD!

There are people who abuse "quick fixes" yes but then there are the minority of people who dont abuse drugs, the use drugs. therre is a huge difference. a mild variety of drugs in mild doses can enlighten you to the accual problem. eg - Hoffmans & Schultz acid therapy. i think it was 6/10 people when given a dose of LSD-25 they would regress to the cause of the problem that they on their own could not factualise because the conscience mind is in denial!

Weed is different, but i had anxiety and depression before i started smoking. all our quotes dont mean shit, we dont KNOW what it does do or if it does anything. The fact of the matter is that nothing released in scientific studies can neither be proved or dis-proved. its all hypothisese. people assume its gosple but its estimanted guess work which is to provide potential insight. we have the ability to think and have opinion which makes every guess biased.

Ive been sleeping here too long!

Peace

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Originally posted by T:

 

quote:

I do not see much wrong with extended use of MAO-a inhibitors for example if there really is an imbalance that needs a chemical solution.

hmmmm, chemical imbalance, why not 5-htp.

The conscious mind creates an array of chemicals to have us feal emotions. Our emotions are controlled by the our past actions, thoughts and choices. Making a choice without first honestly integrating it with reality will yield a negative outcome. To escape the hard mental effort required to make honestly integrated choices, the mind will then try to rationalize(make excuses) and justify that choice. Whether its a choice to do something or to agree with a certain ideology, the princeple stays the same. I am being EXTREMELY breif on this.

Therefor as soon as someone is diagnosed with "clinicle depression" by some "higher authority", they now have the concept in their mind that they simply cannot control thier happiness. They are given a drug to "correct" the imbalance. From then onwards thier is no (maybe very little) conscious effort directed towards being happy, wellbeing now becomes automatic. From here no long term benefits can develop, whether it takes 10 months or 10 years to realise this, it will become self-evident. The mind eventually stagnates.

Whew! Yeah so thats basically why I H8 anti-deps. Depression is fucked, and all the time feals hopeless. But not as hopeless as anti-depressants making you depressed. You were born happy, but you were born into a depressed world.

I cant bring myself to hav a child in this world we live in. No way. I'm waiting for the dramatic change that will sweep the world before the next nuclear war. :)

And I have read SOME reports of no side effect anti-Dep treatment with patients. I really don't care if I'm right, I just want everyone to be happier.

 

quote:

That the answer to the last sentence actually contradicts the middle one.

Thats why i said its wierd. I have had friends who smoke who get too paranoid to leave the house (as with me). But have also had friends smoke just too leave the house. Some people just freak out on pot.

 

quote:

This is why you see so many people who only just started smoking and then suddenly crash. The problem is that they actually feel better at the time of smoking so they smoke more etc etc.

 

If you accept that pot has a depleting action then you also have to accept that it will cause problems in all individuals except for the very balanced and resilient.

Individuals blaming thier naiive decisions on pot. I know what your saying T. Instead of saying "yeah weeds that not bad, i just smoked too much for too long without really taking any control." they will say "nah weeds fucked man don't touch that shit i was smoking it for 4 years and it fucks ya mind up."... Sigh.

 

quote:

As far as the heart is concerned, the problem is a matter of the load it puts on it. This does not mean it hurts the heart or causes any sort of damage to it. Just like a healthy game of soccer can put too much load on the heart, so can MDMA.

Excessive sport will not cause an irregular heart beat or palpitations, unlike excessive md. Pure MDMA might not put much strain on the liver, but pills are dirty, and definately giv it something to battle. But I am interested in your defence for mdma with the kidneys. ADH is the reason for OD's with water? Whether or not its damaging seams inconclusive.

Be aware T that pretty much all my claims rest on pills which CONTAIN mdma. Pure md was only recently tasted, and at a dosage a bit below a good pill. And in all cases XCT refers to dirty crap with MD in it.

 

quote:

The other link does not prvide any back up info on it's statement about the strain MDMA caused to heart, liver and kidneys.

I believe they refered to a Dr. or two.

Finally finished typing. Geeeeeez.

peace,

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Apo:

quote:

I don't know if I'm the only one who gets such an effect, but generally it seems my brain knows when to lay off for a while.

Yeah, Apo, I get that little voice too. Right now I'm in one of my heavier smoking phases, always two-ups. But, give me a month or so, and I'll be back to one cone at a time, and more spaced out. It just seems to be a cycle. But that voice does let you know doesn't he? I like to call that voice hank.

So, why did your mum suggest rehab?

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Originally posted by onz:

hmmmm, chemical imbalance, why not 5-htp.

I am all for fixing things by supplementation, but the more experience I have with 5HTP the less convinced I am of it's benefits. It may be a good thing as part of a much broader treatment, but as a cornerstone it often appears to be quite useless or even harmful.

I am surprised though that you would approve of 5HTP while criticising MAO inhibitors though. Where do you see the difference that allows a distinction to be made?

Therefor as soon as someone is diagnosed with "clinicle depression" by some "higher authority", they now have the concept in their mind that they simply cannot control thier happiness. They are given a drug to "correct" the imbalance.

Not sure if you've read any of the stuff I've written on the topic over the years, but the central theme is always that people have to take charge of their own mind, that antidepressants are only temporary fixes, and that nothing is gained without changing the causes that underly the 'condition'.

Any treatment must in the long run allow or even force the individual to face up to reality.

From then onwards thier is no (maybe very little) conscious effort directed towards being happy, wellbeing now becomes automatic.

Not sure how old you are, but I was around when prozac hit the market. For the first few years it was almost exclusively prescribed as a 6 months treatment. One month for it to kick in properly, 4 months to get you life in order and one month to wean off it. Individuals went into the treatment knowing very well that after a few weeks they would have to work very hard to change their lives and to maintain their happiness. This attitude by both patient and doctor has changed dramatically over the last decade and this is where I see the greatest flaw with SSRI's and depression treatments as a whole. In most cases there is nothing wrong in providing a small window of opportunity by taking SSRI's.

The second big issue is the level of administration. An appropriate dose is usually regarded as one that causes the patient to be happy. This is wrong and plays into the scenario you describe. By making a person happier than they were even before their depression they are left with no drive to change. The pill becomes the answer in itself rather than being a vehicle to find the answers.

Yeah so thats basically why I H8 anti-deps.

I agree about SSRI's. We might as well be prescribing MDMA for the same purpose. However, if you look at the mechanism of MAOI, you will see that it merely reinforces whatever effort you make by other methods. eg. simply taking a high dose of moclobemide will probably cause similar short and long term effects and problems as SSRIs. However, if you base your treatment on lifestyle changes, nutrition and supplementation, and take a small dose of MAOI simply to reinforce/amplify the effectiveness of the treatment, then where is the problem??

My issue with anitdepresants ins't their existence, but simply that they are being used in a lazy, sloppy and illogical way.

I'm waiting for the dramatic change that will sweep the world before the next nuclear war. :)

Dysphoria is a symptom of not serotonin depression, but rather dopamine depression. I classify all depressions into one or the other, or any gradient inbetween. Some medics now use a similar approach, but it is still not widely accepted. There is little point in treating serotonin depression if the problem is with the dopamine levels.

they will say "nah weeds fucked man don't touch that shit i was smoking it for 4 years and it fucks ya mind up."... Sigh.

And sadly this is not just a matter for the individual. We need to be weary of people who blame the drugs, because they are the main reasoning used by those fighting the war on drugs. Whenever some says 'the acid made me psychotic' I see red. However we need to be mindful that drug can and do deplete neurotransmitter reserves and this DOES have serious consequences. While it may well be the drug that caused the problem, it should however never be the drug's fault - especially in a society where we claim to have free will.

Excessive sport will not cause an irregular heart beat or palpitations, unlike excessive md.

Yes it will. if someone is fit then their heart will not have palpitations from normal doses of MDMA. Similarly, if someone is unfit they can get these symptoms from too much exertion in sport.

Pure MDMA might not put much strain on the liver, but pills are dirty, and definately giv it something to battle.

There are a lot of myths surrounding this topic and statistics are often very misleading here. For example, pills that contains caffeine are often classes as dirty pills in statistics. yet a small amount of caffeine is actually present in many pills because it aids absorption of the MDMA. A pill contains about 120mg of goodies, but usually weighs a total of 200-400mg. Usually the rest is simply glucose, lactose or binders. Does this make the pill dirty? Some statistics say yes.

The actual number of pills where MDMA is not the major ingredient is quite low. Even the number of pills containing nothing but MDMA is well over 50%. Every now and then PMA, meth or other crap hits the scene, but in cases other than PMA most users quickly become aware that it is not MDMA. These floods are usually localised and quickly identified. The testing of bad 'e's that ensues is usually a result of the flood.

But I am interested in your defence for mdma with the kidneys. ADH is the reason for OD's with water? Whether or not its damaging seams inconclusive.

I don't quite follow here. ODs with water are caused by osmotic imbalances in the brain causing hypoxia. I am unaware of any involvement of vasopressin in this. Quite the contrary, from personal experience I would have thought MDMA stimulates diuresis. I might well be wrong though and would love it if you could clear this up.

Be aware T that pretty much all my claims rest on pills which CONTAIN mdma. Pure md was only recently tasted

If you've been taking pills for a while and have not always searched for the cheapest on offer then chances are you've had pure MDMA before. The vast majority of pills are quite pure or contain a little caffeine.

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Originally posted by gomaos:

so where would you class me?

I really don't and it's not for me to say. I just talk about this stuff so people can have a look at themselves and make up their own mind.

also since you call the kettle black, what mental problem would I have?

I was actually referring to my (over-)eating disorder... (hope you don't mind me asking, nothing wrong with playing a little sigmund freud or wilhelm reich

Again, I don't know and it's not for me to say - except for what you have written yourself quite publically. There are quite a few threads where you have written about your depression etc. Since (over)eating disorders are in most cases linked to serotonin and/or dopamine depression maybe the eating is only a symptom of a broader issue. You often speak of happier days in the past and sometimes of happier days in the future, which points to 'not-so-happy' days in the present.

I am not a shrink. I don't want to be a shrink. I don't want to tell people what's wrong with them. All I want is to help people understand their brains and their neurochemistry, and to show them how to fix things. I like to provide the tools so they can diagnose/heal themselves rather than me doing the diagnosing/healing.

Sorry about all the OT apoth. So why rehab? what's her reasoning?

[ 16. August 2005, 14:59: Message edited by: Torsten ]

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Ok Benz, you're gonna think I'm like, not telling the whole story, or posibly lying or something, but this is how it went (honestly):

*I come home at 10PM*

Mother: Hi

Me: Hi, are you watching that crappy movie on channel ten? I left K's house because it was so boring!

Mother: Yeah..hey...you smell like smoke

Me: Yeah, I smoked.

Mother: Maybe it's time you went into rehabilitation or something.

*argument ensues*

I shit you not.

I think she seriously thinks I'm addicted to a hard drug like heroin or something.

[ 28. August 2005, 15:30: Message edited by: apothecary ]

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You often speak of happier days in the past and sometimes of happier days in the future, which points to 'not-so-happy' days in the present.

well that's easily explained but I won't go into it.

I am not a shrink. I don't want to be a shrink. I don't want to tell people what's wrong with them. All I want is to help people understand their brains and their neurochemistry, and to show them how to fix things.

yeah i admit i tried to trick you into providing some free psychoanalysis...

sorry...

There are quite a few threads where you have written about your depression etc.

true.

it appears the depression was very much alcohol-related.

Since I'm off the booze (18 months now) depression has almost disappeared.

I didn't even notice it...

you reminded me...

[ 16. August 2005, 15:25: Message edited by: gomaos ]

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While most people don't class MJ as a 'hard drug', and many use it daily, myself included. It really is treated more casually than it should be, these days.

What I mean is that I view a night smoking cones, as less taxing on my body, than a night at the pub. So, I smoke daily, and treat smoking a cone like it was drinking a glass of water.

But, Cannabis is actually a very powerful drug, that should be treated with respect and only smoked on special occasions. If that's once a week, or once a month, for you, I don't know.

But I know that my daily use has, at times, allowed my life to spiral out of control into some very depressive states. I think the main thing is that when I smoke too much I just become a complacent victim, and allow all my problems to be blamed on the rest of the world.

It is a bit ridiculous to suggest you attend rehab, based on a situation like that, but there are some people who would, or should, need to attend rehab to get off weed.

Myself, I quit about once every two years for a few months, then I'm back on it and loving it, and so far that has worked for me. But, I am fast realising that I am either going to have to quit, or accept my slowly declining sanity, and go the witch-doctor route.

It's not Marijuana induced psychosis, I am just communicating with the spirit world! :D

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quote:

It's not Marijuana induced psychosis, I am just communicating with the spirit world!

:D !Right on! :D

P.S - my girl says your avatar is cute.

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Benzito:

...But, Cannabis is actually a very powerful drug, that should be treated with respect and only smoked on special occasions. If that's once a week, or once a month, for you, I don't know.

...

Myself, I quit about once every two years for a few months, then I'm back on it and loving it, and so far that has worked for me. But, I am fast realising that I am either going to have to quit, or accept my slowly declining sanity, and go the witch-doctor route.

I definitely recognise cannabis as a very powerful drug. It is easily my entheogen of choice, and like I told another member of these forums ( ) the revelations it gives to me are beautiful, profound and awe inspiring.

However, your words ring true with me too, and unfortunately I don't see a future for myself where frequent (re: more than once or twice a week) cannabis use is a part of my life.

I dunno. Maybe like gom said this'll change and I'll be a stoner till I die, but that isn't how I feel right now (unfortunately again).

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Firstly i'm sorry i'm so off topic. It doesn't bother me when people go off topic. But big off topic posts can and do piss me off. I'm a sorreh

Originally posted by T:

I am all for fixing things by supplementation, but the more experience I have with 5HTP the less convinced I am of it's benefits. It may be a good thing as part of a much broader treatment, but as a cornerstone it often appears to be quite useless or even harmful.

I am surprised though that you would approve of 5HTP while criticising MAO inhibitors though. Where do you see the difference that allows a distinction to be made?

Unfortunately I have no experience with 5htp except in the form of recovery pills which come with partypills bought in nz. The difference I saw was that MAOI's are essentially drugs, and 5htp is essentially a supplement. 5htp will take anything from 5 days to 5 weeks to have noticable affect. Interesting though torsten, as I haven't (though have wanted to) supplemented myself on 5htp before I can't expect myself to be correct. Ideally one thing that will ALWAYS overide just about any supplement or drug is the individuals diet. Caffeine, sugar, and alcahol will always make life's bullshit less controlable. But yeah my diet has always played a big role in my long term wellbeing.

Not sure if you've read any of the stuff I've written on the topic over the years, but the central theme is always that people have to take charge of their own mind, that antidepressants are only temporary fixes, and that nothing is gained without changing the causes that underly the 'condition'. Any treatment must in the long run allow or even force the individual to face up to reality.

100% agree. Unfortunately all the doctors, and friends on/off anti-deps, I've talked to do not have this theory. They believe "clinicle depression" is some your born with. Many people believe this. I will never, ever.

Individuals went into the treatment knowing very well that after a few weeks they would have to work very hard to change their lives and to maintain their happiness. This attitude by both patient and doctor has changed dramatically over the last decade and this is where I see the greatest flaw with SSRI's and depression treatments as a whole. In most cases there is nothing wrong in providing a small window of opportunity by taking SSRI's.

The attitude sure has changed. My cousin is currently on Lovan (prosac, paxil). I'm pretty sure paxil is fluoxetine aswell but. I (been meaning to) will post a topic on drug interactions with anti-deps tonight. So as to stop pissing people off with long off topic posts :)

Yes it will. if someone is fit then their heart will not have palpitations from normal doses of MDMA. Similarly, if someone is unfit they can get these symptoms from too much exertion in sport.

I've never heard of palpitations or irregular heart beat from too much excercise, unless the individual has a condition. I class myself as unfit, and too much excersise gives me a stitch. Or sweeps my energy from under my feat. Before the stitch i'll usually start to feal sick,ith an odd headache, sort of like too much oxigen. This stays for ages unless i hav ciggies or cones.

For example, pills that contains caffeine are often classes as dirty pills in statistics. yet a small amount of caffeine is actually present in many pills because it aids absorption of the MDMA. A pill contains about 120mg of goodies, but usually weighs a total of 200-400mg. Usually the rest is simply glucose, lactose or binders. Does this make the pill dirty? Some statistics say yes.

The glass myth was one I never payed attention to. But as I became more involved with the pill scene, it would become something not so unbelieveable. My first influence was "it gets into your body quiker. your body heals up they're tiny cuts." made sense to me then. And then a mate of mine snorted a pill and his nose started bleeding. I'm always convinced a pill is dirty when my piss has that brown edge to'it. Can't remember if that mornings piss hurt, it was after all, relieving. Also I'm always in the presumtion that a pill crumbling more easily than another pill will have less crap in it.

And then, finally, ecstasydata.org are the other source for the beliefe in dirty pills. And no, basicly a pill with caffeine in it doesnt make it dirty.

I don't quite follow here. ODs with water are caused by osmotic imbalances in the brain causing hypoxia. I am unaware of any involvement of vasopressin in this. Quite the contrary, from personal experience I would have thought MDMA stimulates diuresis. I might well be wrong though and would love it if you could clear this up.

STIMULATES DIURESIS!? I'm in a hurry torst so i'll just say from my experience I would say the opposite. And I would love if YOU could cleare this up. I'm running real late!

I'm 18 T, bout to graduate. Your 32?

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Originally posted by onz:

I've never heard of palpitations or irregular heart beat from too much excercise

Not 'too much excercise', but rather' extreme exertion' regardless of how this was achieved.

More importantly I foudn that the heart problems are actually not caused by MDMA, but by the electrolyte changes MDMA can cause. In particular the palpitations are due to increase of potassium levels in serum.

I've also checked on the kidney thing and this is not as clear cut as it is made out to be either. Kidney problems were found in many e fatalities and hospitalisations. However in all cases other symptoms were also dianosed that indicate heatstress, hyperthermia or dehydration. The theory is now that MDMA does not actually cause kidney problems, but that the kidney problem (and heart problems mind you) is a result of hyperthermia which can be a side effect of (mostly careless) MDMA use.

The glass myth was one I never payed attention to. But as I became more involved with the pill scene, it would become something not so unbelieveable. My first influence was "it gets into your body quiker. your body heals up they're tiny cuts." made sense to me then. And then a mate of mine snorted a pill and his nose started bleeding.

For glass to have an effect in increasing absorption it would have to be quite a lot of it. The stomach is quite tough, so the amount of glass needed to cause the cuts would absolutely shred the intestines as it moves further down. Also, I am not convinced that cust would actually aid absorption. The reasoning makes even less sense, as 'healing' would not take place for at least an hour and hence would have no effect on the pill which is fully absorbed by this time.

As for nose bleeds, just snort some powder that has a little powdered solid acids (eg tartaric acid) in it and see what happens.

I'm always convinced a pill is dirty when my piss has that brown edge to'it.

That would make all Kelloggs cereals 'dirty'

Most toxic substances will have little effect on your urine colour. Dehydration would though.

Also I'm always in the presumtion that a pill crumbling more easily than another pill will have less crap in it.

I once had a pill in the early 90 that was obviously made by amateurs. It was a large 'disco biscuit' that was set in cement or plaster. 600mg of pill weight and took 2 hours to come on, but it was pretty pure MDMA allright. While most people won't resort to using cement to bind their pills, there are plenty of other binders that can be just as strong while being completely harmless.

A pill that crumbles is likely to have been moisture exposed or was pressed poorly. It's an indication of lack of skill & equipment rather than of pill quality.

And then, finally, ecstasydata.org are the other source for the beliefe in dirty pills. And no, basicly a pill with caffeine in it doesnt make it dirty.

ecstacy data is not a good representation of what is actually being consumed. The reason for this is simple demand and supply. If you are at a rave and three pills go around:

1) a weak real 'e' feeling

2) a strong not 'e' feeling

3) a strong real 'e' feeling

Which pill do you think will have the most sales at this part? Sure they might have equal sales in the first few hours, but return customers will not want the weak or the 'not real e'. The week after word will get around as to which pill is good and which is crap and sales will plummet for the crap ones. So, while ecstacy data will present 3 pills (two MDMA and one dxm) in a ratio of

33% / 33% / 33%, the reality is more likely to be 5% / 10% / 85%.

Note that I have actually given a higher number to the fake e than the weak e, because market dynamics usually favour a strong fake drug over a weak real one. After all, people want to get out of it for their 30 bucks.

STIMULATES DIURESIS!? I'm in a hurry torst so i'll just say from my experience I would say the opposite. And I would love if YOU could cleare this up.

We are both right. Julie Holland wrote:

"...there is an initial diuresis, meaning there is an increase in urine output at the beginning of the MDMA experience, but then there is a decrease in urine output later on.."

And you are right about the vasopressin (from another author):

3,4-Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) has been reported to cause hyponatraemia, which appears to result from inappropriate secretion of the antidiuretic hormone arginine vasopressin (AVP) In this paper it was found that not MDMA, but it's metabolites (in particular the 4 hydroxy form) were strong vasopressin triggers, starting at the 1 hour mark.

I am curious though. Since vasopressin is in relatively limited supply and is easily depleted by taking stimulants such as coffee and MDMA, would regular use of MDMA negative this strong AVP effect?

I'm 18 T, bout to graduate. Your 32?

:o:o:o +5

Maybe we should start a new thead on this

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gomaos:

true.

it appears the depression was very much alcohol-related.

Since I'm off the booze (18 months now) depression has almost disappeared.

I didn't even notice it...

you reminded me...

actually gom when i ran into u the other day i forgots to mention that you look very well

ive known you over a few years now and you look better, even younger, and seem alot more happy these days than when i met u

the reasons are many and include u kicking the booze but im sure ist other things too. but congrats on doing it all :) i hope you find everything else u you need as well.

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Thanks for that...

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this thread made me think how lucky i was about my pot habit, as my mother never got angry about it, she even at times cared for my plants, and she did an incredible job doing so...

i gave up pot several times.

i loved pot.

i agree with apoth's mentioning the voices.

i had my last joint (and alcohol) more than 4 month's ago and don't miss it a bit.

mj had nothing more for me to offer, apart from giving me a cough.

overall i feel much better without those "crutches"!

i learned a lot from pot, the thought voice told me about my most inner fears, problems and absolut blissfullness, pot you were a great teacher for me, but now i have moved on.

now i prefere another high, a body own high.

:P

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well i belive my term with MJ in my teens has still disrupted my short term memory to this day.

this is my belif for my own person.

think it was nearly 5 years i was a on off stoner.

not anymore!!!!!!!!!!!

perhaps i should get on the ginkgo biloba.

everyone has there own poison, MJ is just not mine

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The ONLY reason why I personally don't like to smoke is because it makes me stupid and foggy for about a week afterwards. I found Vasopressin very effective to lift the fog. Kinda expensive and difficult to get though.

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oh we are all so good and not smoking pot...

you'll all go to heaven...

to puritanist heaven...

ra ra ra....

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of course there's a dark side to pot, I never denied this.

If you smoke daily, regularly, you get very used to it and don't get much out of it anymore...

you're just harming yourself through smoking...

plus people who naturally tend to be depressed should be careful, and people with mental problems should keep off it if possible.

Mixed in with other "party drugs" like alc, e, speed, whatever, it becomes a dangerous ingredient...

there's many dark sides off course...

i don't know myself why i keep standing up for it all the time...

I think it's because it makes me very angry that a beneficial herb like that is illegal while that ratpoison alcohol can be freely bought everywhere...

because alcohol 'fuels' the 'western lifestyle' (bah)

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My uncle is 65, he has been smoking for 40+ years, he takes whateva else passes his way(his crowd has only the best coke,etc) He still enjoys a hugely successful career and is as healthy as an Ox.

I'm currently 22, been smoking since 14, daily since 16, I currently enjoy a successful home business(legal)so I'm my own boss. I work when I want, get up when I want and smoke as much as I want.My average intake is 2+g daily and I recently scored 132 on an IQ test.

Also for the record, between the ages of 14-17 I indulged in many other drugs(not often)including my first trip at 14(way too young,but i'll never regret it)took six more trips, two huge mushroom doses 50+ and 200+, 1bag speed and 1 mdma all before 17. It was at this time speed and MDMA was all that was available(which I really don't like) so I stopped everything except pot, until recently(this season) I remembered mushrooms grow near me. And yesssss, thats what I needed. With everything except pot I'm quite dissiplined on frequency of use.For example During season:a few times,whateva I feel like(many just over threashold doses).Out of season:absolutly no more than once a month.

I use this as a great theroputic, it makes me not want to drink anywhere near as much and even my pot consumption has gone down slightly.

My depression was caused by a woman. Not her fault, we just live too far away from each other. She is my soulmate and no other girls get me off and supply me with the mental relationship I have with her. Everytime I'm with my current girlfriend I'm only thinking of my soulmate, and I feel like I'm cheating.

This lasted for 2.5 years till I took my first dose of shrooms in 6 years and BAM depression gone. I am just so stoked that her and I are such good friends and realize that "maybe another time in another life" I still love her with every fibre of my being, it just doesn't drag on me anymore.It has allowed me to form a better relationship with my GF(she'd kill me if she read this hehe)

So I'm not saying pot, yes or no

Just offering some input

Two negative effects I have noted!Constipation without bongs. Inability to eat without pot. The only time since 16 I wasn't able to get pot for four days I didn't eat, wasn't hungry,was burning energy at huge rates(on holiday) and drinking plenty of alcohol, but had no craving for it or nocotine(spin mix)Forth day got pot, smoked 3 cones and proceeded to eat everything in sight.

Addiction caused by addition of tobacco to mix. I don't smoke ciggarettes so presume this to be the cause of my addiction.

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Just a little tidbit.

Today I had a fuck off awful cough. It was so bad that my boss sent me home, he said too sick to work.

My mate came and picked me up, I ate a Carambola, and came back to my house. I rolled up a small amount of buds (0.25g) and stuck it in a pipe.

Within minutes my cough was gone, and my lungs were no longer in pain.

Another 0.25g about an hour later has kept me going, and I think I'll actually be able to attend my maths lectures tonight :)

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addiction is certainly not exclusively related to the inclusion of tobacco : ) at least in my own experience...i was pathetically addicted..it made me feel better about my depression no matter how terrible the side effects were.

i would have said that mj felt "natural and right" for my mind..

it seemed to have a very specific/direct effect for me (to alleviate the pain i would feel and it even enhanced my vocabulary, cognitive function and memory) ... there was something about it that always caused me to refute that mj use was implicated at the root of my problems ...

i had used psychedelics before mj, and never found those to be of any detriment..but i had always been depressed and considered suicide regularly until i started using mj.. it seemed to renew my interest and joy in life.. that's what started a "love affair" with the herb, and shortly after, it just became "blind"..

within 12 months, the relationship became problematic (though any hint of that was muted by my [not so] rational mind) and 12 months later it was out of control with a massive amount of denial..and it went on for years...painful, wasted, drawn-out years (where i, of course, perceived that the rest of the world "had it wrong" more or less)

it directly correlated to me being very delusional, in a manner not matched by any other substance, in all honesty -- just for posterity's sake ...

Edited by coin

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I was a good boy till I was 18. I only ever got caught blind drunk until then and the punishment was usually superfluous because I couldn't leave my room for the next day or so anyway due to hangover.

I started acid when I was 18, but didn't tell my parents till I was 19. Wasn't living at home anymore because I wasn't getting on with mum, so her reaction was more intriguing to me than of any consequence. In fact, my mum always claimed to be a progressive parent, but the two times it really counted she was about as conservative as it gets (the other time was when I introduced my boyfriend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> ).

Dad on the other hand was intrigued by the whole thing and just implored me to be careful. I was. About the only time he got worried was when I went to a nightclub 2 doors down from his place and got so messy I had couldn't go home and had to wake him up at 4am to let me in.

I can't see drug consumption (incl alcohol) as being a positive thing for anyone still at school or in their mid teens. So, I think it is a bit sad that parents really can't do much about their pot smoking 12 year olds. And sadly, I have yet to see one of these early smokers progress to a happy life. Not saying the pot is always to blame, but surely it doesn't help.

I had my first serious drink of alcohol after I was 20. I had my first cigarette when I was 23. I tried cannabis for the first time shortly after finishing uni. From there I've tried alot of things and I've always been employed throughout. I smoked for about 7 years with one year gap until finally giving up smoking tobacco and everything besides.

I think you are right that there's alot to be said for exploring these things after one has attained maturity.

My desire now lies in gardening, cultivating bonsai and E. novo (when I finally find some) and after reading much of the interesting posts here am interested in ayawaska and oral DMT though the purging is kind of off putting.

Nevertheless I think I'll be adding more things to my collection come springtime.

Edited by eNo

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