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fyzygy

Sacred gardening in the media

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Saw this one. Liam has achieved celeb status :P

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i hate to mention it, but does anyone else think articles about using and growing psychoactive plants on ABC news draws the wrong attention and is a step towards scheduling?

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It's conflicting. On one hand, the fundamental right to change one's own perceptions without harming others should be normalised. On the other it seems way to risky to publish a name attached to a crime in the media. Add that it's federal funded media which has a recent history of being raided by the Feds and I'm honestly baffled. Then again, EGA and APS are also more sharing than most. Maybe it is a good thing?

 

I think increased exposure to cultural use, human rights perspectives, scientific literature and media all have a big part to play in convincing the powers that be that a change is what's wanted. But I read this as "look what people are doing" rather than "lets explore why people are doing this and what we can learn from it". It's not "wrong" so far as it goes, just not persuasive or nuanced enough to provide support for the community that is beyond the risk it attracts, in my opinion.

Edited by Freakosystem

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53 minutes ago, Freakosystem said:

On one hand, the fundamental right to change one's own perceptions without harming others should be normalised. 

 

I agree, but the government definitely doesn't seem to


I think there's two sides to increased exposure though. As far as scheduling goes, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. 

 

I'm sure Liam's intentions were good, and he had no control of what was published, but it's hardly a constructive article as far as convincing people change is wanted or even a good idea. The only thing going for it is cultural use, but it's to the effect of 'people are tripping on home-grown drugs, some of which were smuggled into the country, and sometimes they have bad reactions'.'

 

 

Edited by saguaro

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Yes, this is a hard one, Psychedelics are no longer fringe topics, and our community is being showcased for good or for bad. We need to be ready for more of this as the TGA decision has the media working on Psychedelics stories left, right and centre. 

 

Liam has done a lot of good work for the community, and a couple of us gave an interview for the book (that this chapter was lifted from); sadly, the use of our words fell beyond our control as the media often does. We thought is was a book for plant nerds not the major media spaces, but that life, sadly.   

Attention is a good and bad thing; even on a bad day I think Liam has a better voice generally for the community than many out there. Liam has volunteered much of the last 10 years of his life trying to help this space, however, he is very much still learning like we all are. This situation could have been better on many front and i not just talking about Liam here, even myself, i made mistakes around this, and need to live with that. 

It's a balance between trying to show we are good people and we have good gardens and good wellness stories and the media diving in like vultures on our community and gardens.

The chapter in question here was Liam chapter was his own story, associated with his work with us, but not a direct part of his role with EGA. At EGA we generally do not do media. We rather focus on making our own content, and self-publishing. This has again made us think hard about the next time we do or will. 

I support Liam and his work more generally, I feel he is an asset to the community and I know he released a statement on that matter, so I recommend reading that as part of this discussion.  

Edited by RonnySimulacrum
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I think we're all critical of Prue rather than Liam. I know people who we're interviewed for the book and very little of what they said was applied appropriately. They claim a lot was taken out of context or altered significantly, sometimes beyond recognition.

 

I'm sure Prue had good faith. I've met her. She strikes me as genuine and kind.

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I actually feel that the TGA's agenda towards scheduling (a step or two down the ladder just like psilocybin and MDMA) will keep going on its merry way, regardless of what our communities say, as we aren't corporate/venture capitalists/pharma giants with the cash to lean hard where they need to.

 

Smoke and mirrors to distract and obscure themes like ecology, preservation, self sufficiency, self-care and sovereignty over consciousness, as we move inexorably closer to pay to play, synthetics and production line manufacture of anything that can be sold for a few bucks from the psychedelic realm...

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Sorry, I should have mentioned the $20 000 price tag for 'treatment'. Bargain, and easily accessible by all of those addicts and trauma victims that desperately need it! :blink:

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-17/psychedelics-therapies-insurers-suppliers-cannabis-companies/102477606

 

Peter Widdows, who is leading the clinic project for Incannex, said there were roughly 390,000 Australians with PTSD and 280,000 suffering from treatment-resistant depression.

He said access to treatment in the early stages would be restricted due to the small number of doctors with relevant experience in providing treatment, but also due to the price — which he said would likely be around the $20,000 mark.

"People need to understand that's for a complete treatment protocol over a long time, with lots of psychotherapy and psychiatry," he said.

"This type of treatment is a long treatment over a number of months."

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Openly admitting to illegally importing plants, “look at us and what we’re doing” kind of attitudes, openly advertising a website that pushes more of the “drugs” side rather than plants for growing side….sorry, but I’m one who lost a lot of respect for Liam and Fahim in this one. And can’t see it coming back…

This affects all gardeners, not just those who choose to use…..

cactus theft was already a problem.

Selling 10 OP cactus seeds + a coke bottle for $40 + $25 postage on his website too, c’mon that a blatant rip off in anyone’s language. 

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$300 for a foot of a randomly selected cactus cutting too. Yeah, in it purely for the love of cactus and spreading it far and wide. 
We’re all struggling and everyone’s gotta eat, but this just reeks.

 

https://www.themescalinegarden.com/shop/p/numbered-clone-30cm-cutting

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2 hours ago, bonecud_56 said:

$300 for a foot of a randomly selected cactus cutting too.

TMG#77 looks kinda special.

Let's all chip in to buy a chunk. 

 

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42 minutes ago, fyzygy said:

TMG#77 looks kinda special.

Let's all chip in to buy a chunk. 

 

Haha. No thanks 

  • Haha 1

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9 hours ago, bonecud_56 said:

Openly admitting to illegally importing plants, “look at us and what we’re doing” kind of attitudes, openly advertising a website that pushes more of the “drugs” side rather than plants for growing side….sorry, but I’m one who lost a lot of respect for Liam and Fahim in this one. And can’t see it coming back…

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with Liam and Fahim anyday, mates are mates despite some shitty journalism casting aspersions.

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^ Under the radar, no more?

(relatively speaking, of course)

Edited by fyzygy

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11 minutes ago, fyzygy said:

^ Under the radar, no more?

If you think these things have been under the radar in the last 10 years you've been living under a rock.

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9 minutes ago, Strontium Dawg said:

If you think these things have been under the radar in the last 10 years you've been living under a rock.

San Pedro gets barely a look-in, amid copious reportage on psilocybin or even DMT. Over the past 10 years or so, I would wager. That's in the mainstream media; even in the research literature, references to therapeutic use of mescaline are few and far between. That low profile is one of the medicine's best attributes. It's quite nice here, under my rock. 

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6 hours ago, Strontium Dawg said:

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with Liam and Fahim anyday, mates are mates despite some shitty journalism casting aspersions.

That’s a solid thing mate, good that you have that bond and stick by your mates. I don’t have that same bond though. 

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On 22/06/2023 at 8:27 PM, bonecud_56 said:
On 22/06/2023 at 1:58 PM, Strontium Dawg said:

I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with Liam and Fahim anyday, mates are mates despite some shitty journalism casting aspersions.

 

I didn't mean to cast aspersions, on anyone. Personally, have no strong opinions regarding media exposure, one way or another. My opinion of the ABC is exceptionally low. So was never really sure what the kerfuffle was all about? Cactus thieves are a relatively minor concern. 

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a couple of abc articles probs aren't gonna directly cause the prohibition of cacti in aus, but one day there will be a straw that breaks the camels back. as @Strontium Dawg said the cat has been out of the bag for decades. 

 

My grandma contacted me to tell me about the second article :lol: Most people who care about psychoactive plants already know about this stuff, I suspect the typical audience of abc don't care or already have a negative view towards drugs in general.

 

I appreciate Liam's work and dedication and can understand wanting to promote things that have benefitted you, wanting to become known as an authority or share your passions and promote medical benefits of mesc, push to legalisation etc.

 

I hate to be fatalistic but I personally don't think psychedelics are gonna be legalised outside of medical contexts in australia. growing san pedro and lophs is legal,  and you can partake readily. In fact it would take a real effort to get caught for using cacti, most people keep it on the down low . The site name 'mescalinegarden.com'

 is a bit egregious but again, probs not gonna singlehandedly lead to scheduling especially considering i've seen things like 'cactus incense' sold on gumtree

 

I think the pendulum is more likely to swing in the direction of banning cacti that it is for legalisation of mesc for personal use

Edited by saguaro

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20 hours ago, saguaro said:

growing san pedro and lophs is legal

^ In which jurisdiction(s)? On this question, bona fide experts seem to be lacking. 

 

As for the cat having already been let out of the bag: I'm yet to see a Bunnings label advertise SP cactus as a good source of mescaline, or mention made of this in any online listing (though I've seen plenty of incriminating innuendo pushed by an unscrupulous seller on eBay). Until this year, I'd never encountered a discussion of sacred cactus in the Australian news media. San Pedro etc. have been conspicuous absences in public and scientific discussions of the therapeutic potential of psychedelics (I know of one paper from a few years back, which wasn't in English, and I could never track down its author). Researchers have been relatively uninterested for a variety of reasons (such as relative lack of potency or longer duration of the mescaline trip). 

 

Liam's advocacy would have more credibility if it weren't linked to commercial enterprise. $10 per columnar centimetre (a click or two away from the ABC online reportage) is a strong incentive for opportunists, both cactus thieves and gardeners seeking unreasonable returns on their investments. 

 

Under the radar, it is possible to keep one's treasure hidden ... in plain sight! It's not a bad survival strategy either (think of the Taoist parable about the useless tree). How publicity and marketing feed into programs for cactus conservancy (another of Liam's passions) remains to be seen. 


 

 


 

Edited by fyzygy

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6 minutes ago, fyzygy said:

^ In which jurisdiction(s)? On this question, bona fide experts seem to be lacking. 

 

It does vary by state, NSW they're kosher. VIC and QLD i think they're not.

 

I guess what i meant by out the bag is that if you are curious about psychoactive plants, or know people with similar interests you will eventually be informed or figure out these plants are readily available. Consuming them is still illegal, and selling / advertising them for consumption or as a source of mesc would be too. That's probs why Bunnings doesn't do it, and why I think the name and advertising on mescalinegarden.com is a bit iffy. But we've all seen some pretty wild ads for cacti out there, amongst all the other stuff you see on the SAB facebook page and other sites

 

16 minutes ago, fyzygy said:

Under the radar, it is possible to keep one's treasure hidden ... in plain sight!

 

I agree with you fyzygy. I don't see the need or upside to shouting about these things from the rooftops and drawing attention.

 

I'm trying not to be ignorant about it, on one hand it's spreading awareness about the hobby, but I just struggle to understand the upside for the rest of the community or understand the motivation behind it

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