Kanna - Sceletium Tortuosum Seed Confiscated & Destroyed

[Ishmael Fleishman]

Kanna - Sceletium Tortuosum is legal in Australia - So I thought I would buy some seeds to grow my own. However, I got a letter today saying that my Kanna - Sceletium Tortuosum seed has been confiscated and destroyed. My question is why?

 

The seed was coming from Sweden, bought through Etsy.

[fyzygy]

Botanical name must be printed on outside of package, even if it's not on any AQIS blacklist. (Last time I checked, several years ago). 

 

10 hours ago, Ishmael Fleishman said:

The seed was coming from Sweden, bought through Etsy.

 

You are welcome to some free Sceletium from my garden ... supposedly tortuosum but I'm not 100% convinced.

Edited September 8, 2022 by fyzygy

[Ishmael Fleishman]

I might contact the seller and see if he will resend with the Latin name printed on the outside 

fyzygy what makes you uncertain? Have you sampled

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Ishmael Fleishman

[fyzygy]

2 hours ago, Ishmael Fleishman said:

fyzygy what makes you uncertain? Have you sampled

 

 

“Kougoed is easily confused with other members of the genus Sceletium (as well as with Mesembryanthemum spp.). Those species that not only look similar but also have similar effects and contain the same active constituent (mesembrine) were presumably also referred to as kougoed and used in the same manner (Arndt and Kruger 1970; Jeffs et al. 1970, 1974; D. McKenna 1995, 101*):
 
Sceletium anatomicum (Haw.) L. Bolus [syn. Mesembryanthemum anatomicum Haw.]
Sceletium expansum (L.) L. Bolus [syn. Mesembryanthemum expansum L.]
Sceletium joubertii L. Bolus290
Sceletium namaquense L. Bolus
Sceletium strictum L. Bolus”

Excerpt From: Rätsch, Christian. “The Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants.” iBooks. 

 

 

This plant (Wikipedia's "textbook" example of S. tortuosum) looks different to mine: 

 

[Alchemica]

"Based on the venation type, the species is mainly classified as either emarcidum or tortuosum types. In the emarcidum type, the leaf is more flat and the dried leaf venation pattern shows a central main vein with the curved secondary vein which branches off the main vein, reaching the leaf margins.

 

In plants of the tortuosum type, the dry leaves are more concave and usually show about three to five or sometimes up to seven major parallel veins. The secondary veins run straight up to the apex on both sides of the middle vein."

 

 

https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/53426

 

 

While the emarcidum is much easier to grow it seems to be devoid of mesembrine and instead comprised of 4'-O-demethylated mesembrine-type alkaloids [1, 2] which are poorly characterised pharmacologically. S. strictum seems to again have a different alkaloid profile centred on mesembrine and mesembrenone and is proposed to be useful based on that
 

[1] https://doi.org/10.3389%2Ffnut.2022.819753

[2] https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/53426

Pretty sure the first one I have is emarcidum-type and the second tortuosum if that helps you ID.

[Ishmael Fleishman]

21 hours ago, Alchemica said:Pretty sure the first one I have is emarcidum-type and the second tortuosum if that helps you ID.

 

21 hours ago, fyzygy said:

 

 

Thanks for the detailed response I’m a rank amateur compared to you.

 

If either of you would be willing to donate a cutting I would love to add it to my collection.

 

This leads me another question - kanna on paper seems to be a all round positive plant in terms of mood, anxiety and depression.  However I am surprised how unknown it is and how little attention it gets  - so why the lack of love? Or is it all hush so the government doesn’t reschedule it as restricted substance.

[Alchemica]

30 minutes ago, Ishmael Fleishman said:

If either of you would be willing to donate a cutting I would love to add it to my collection.

 

Trying to root up cuttings at the moment, if I have success I'll be in touch

 

Quote

however I am surprised how unknown it is and how little attention it gets

 

It's really annoying as it's a potent therapeutic and it would be good to have it remain therapeutically appreciated, rather than abused. 

 

It's made the list of the United Nations “plants of concern.” and features in some drug testing/analysis papers so probably be an issue soon [1].

[Ishmael Fleishman]

36 minutes ago, Alchemica said:

probably be an issue soon

so get it and grow it before it is restricted 

[fyzygy]

Grab some roots and all - mine is the "leaf is more flat" kind. PM me and I'll send you some. It might have set seed, but I don't know what to look for ... ?

1 hour ago, Ishmael Fleishman said:

willing to donate a cutting

 

 

39 minutes ago, Alchemica said:

Trying to root up cuttings at the moment, if I have success I'll be in touch

Sounds great. I've been trying to get the other variety for ages. 

[Drak33366]

Have there been any

1 hour ago, Alchemica said:

It's really annoying as it's a potent therapeutic and it would be good to have it remain therapeutically appreciated, rather than abused.  

 

Is ingestion known to produce long-term neurological change or do the effects only last until the mesembrine is metabolised?

[Alchemica]

27 minutes ago, Drak33366 said:

Have there been any

 

Is ingestion known to produce long-term neurological change or do the effects only last until the mesembrine is metabolised?

 

There'd likely be BDNF elevations [seen in animal studies here] and enhanced neurogenesis on chronic dosing (in line with the therapeutic activity seen in depression where case-studies note delayed improvements, eg 1-2 weeks, 10 days etc) from both the serotonergic effects and PDE4 inhibition

 

[Drak33366]

Ah I see! Are there any downsides to increased BDNF levels in humans?

[Alchemica]

13 minutes ago, Drak33366 said:

Ah I see! Are there any downsides to increased BDNF levels in humans?

There may possibly be if someone has cancers etc, BDNF participates in the process of metastasis and in the migration of cancer cells . That said, exercise induces similar sorts of elevations of BDNF and it's generally considered wholesomely healthy