Interesting paper that was brought to my attention

[trucha]

https://zenodo.org/record/6409376#.YkzsKy1h3OS

[Strontium Dawg]

This is very cool and interesting!

It's particularly interesting to read there is a vertical concentration gradient as well as radial. This challenges and potentially disproves most of the hearsay about which types of specimens are best suited for particular application.

Thanks for posting this! 

[fyzygy]

Another paper that may be of interest: 

 

https://booksc.org/book/76188872/41b6a4

 

An Efficient Ambient Ionization Mass Spectrometric Approach to Detection and Quantification of the Mescaline Content of Commonly Abused Cacti from the Echinopsis Genus. 

 

Journal of Forensic Sciences (2019)

 

[Strontium Dawg]

"commonly abused cacti"

See, that just grates on my grill...

Haven't read it but doesn't sound like something that can be done without a serious lab. Unlike in KTs posted paper. I love a bit of ghetto Tek, he had me at jigsaw!

[fyzygy]

You don't have to read between the lines to know which article law enforcement is reading.

Psycho0 gets a mention, for some reason. 

Please excuse me if the article I suggested doesn't provide any relevant context or background. 

 

 

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by fyzygy

[MORG]

Thanks for posting. 

 

The observed gradient in concentration casts all the relative potency talk in a very uncertain light.

 

TBM still looking good though

 

 

And fun quote from the second paper linked in this thread:

"Interestingly, the concentration

of mescaline in E. lageniformis “psycho0” was determined to be approximately one-third that of the standard variant of E. lageniformis, despite its being advertised by some users as being “exceptional” in terms of the “high” experienced from its use."

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by MORG

[trucha]

The authors of that forensic journal article assumed a few things that are not true (bridgesii being a perfect example). It is common for people (including medical or scientific researchers) to somehow assume that any specimen of a given species which they encounter is going to follow what has been said about them in the literature. We already know that analytical results can vary wildly due to multiple factors.

It is even more fascinating that they don't connect the dots and hear what is being said in the claims they want to dismiss rather than clinging to what is being extrapolated from a few lonely analytical data points. Rather than dismissal of what does not agree with their conclusions, this particular conflict should tell them that more work is merited.

That newer paper adds some more weight to that line of thought.

 

"Abuse" or "abused" are loaded words.

In most cases what is meant is any use at all that is not approved of by the speaker.

This largely comes from the same mindset as would refer to masturbation as self-abuse. 

[Strontium Dawg]

16 hours ago, fyzygy said:

You don't have to read between the lines to know which article law enforcement is reading.

Psycho0 gets a mention, for some reason. 

Please excuse me if the article I suggested doesn't provide any relevant context or background. 

 

 

 

Apologies if I came across like I was saying that paper wasn't relevant or such, was just noting the loaded language in it's title.

I will be more conscious of my choice of words.

[saguaro]

I suspect these secondary metabolites are there to protect the plant and not for some anthropocentric purpose. That view has triggered a few people.

 

it's rare to see insects settle for less than the growing tip of Echinopsis sp. That's where the biosynthetic rate should be highest, in aggregate.

At the same time, Echinopsis sp. seem to be a last resort for most insects.

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by saguaro

[Strontium Dawg]

At the same time, Echinopsis sp. seem to be a last resort for most insects.

 

 Maybe for some, like caterpillars. Snails in my yard will eat certain tricho tips preferentially over anything else. They do avoid the cacti with tougher skin, like terscheckii, and they seem to pick the higher alkaloid pachanoi types in particular. 

Scale don't infest any other plants in my garden, only cacti. I have had scale on a few indoor plants like aroids.

 

I do like your train of thought about it being growing tips that are most likely to be eaten, therefore concentrating bitter tasting deterrents there makes a lot of sense for a plant.

[saguaro]

true, my reply was a rushed generalisation ( drawn from interactions in an introduced ecosystem)

 

things like caterpillars, slugs, snails seem to go for the growth tip of trichos, and are probably more of a threat to the plant's survival and reproduction than scale. 

Flowers come from the apex in Lophophora of a certain size/age too, possibly relevant.

 

Whereas further down the plant on trichos, where mammals like deer are the biggest threat, you have corking, heftier spines and higher concentrations of bitter secondary metabolites in the chlorencyma.

[fyzygy]

On 07/04/2022 at 11:03 PM, MORG said:

And fun quote from the second paper linked in this thread:

"Interestingly, the concentration

of mescaline in E. lageniformis “psycho0” was determined to be approximately one-third that of the standard variant of E. lageniformis, despite its being advertised by some users as being “exceptional” in terms of the “high” experienced from its use."

I've heard similar reports via bioassay, from reputable sources. 

[fyzygy]

On 08/04/2022 at 1:56 PM, Glaukus said:

Snails in my yard will eat certain tricho tips preferentially over anything else. They do avoid the cacti with tougher skin, like terscheckii, and they seem to pick the higher alkaloid pachanoi types in particular. 

Even the snails are sacred, in some traditional San Pedro cults.

[fyzygy]

On 08/04/2022 at 1:56 PM, Glaukus said:

I do like your train of thought about it being growing tips that are most likely to be eaten, therefore concentrating bitter tasting deterrents there makes a lot of sense for a plant.

Unless ... the pests avoid the other plant parts because of the higher concentrations of (deterrent) alkaloids there.