M.speciosa leaf cutting

[john]

Please can anyone suggest how to encourage the leaf shown to produce further plantlets. The pics show one small plantlet from the leaf cutting (transplanted now) and the leaf cutting with a mass of roots. It has been planted for about 5 month. Also can someone advise how to improve pics?

[withdrawl clinic]

1st q, you don't need to produce further plantlets, unless you have eager customers paying you for them.

kratom, grows fast, and big, and one tree supplies you with all the needs.

 

2nd q, i don't even have a mobile phone, but some experience with digital cameras.

unless you can manualy, adjust the focus, or have auto settings, the thing is that many pics taken will be out of focus.

i think this is where you think you can improofe. your camera tries to find focus but struggles doing so.

one easy trick, we use here, to avoid this issue, is called hand modelling.

hold the specimen in your open palm, and the auto focus will work better, because palm and plant with roots are of similar distance to the camera.

 

your pic's show back round far away, so your camera doesn't know what to do, keep the back round in focus or the leave cutting.

or put the specimen on a table...

[john]

Thanks for your information. I have 1 tree already buy have had no success with propagation. I have given away lots of seeds and others have had some success. I am still sowing seeds.

I would like to propagate some more to share or sell thus the leaf cutting. I guess auxin or gibberellin would help but the are expensive.

You pic tips look look applicable thanks.

[withdrawl clinic]

ok, if you have a tree than propagation will be very easy, but there is a seasonal issue attached to it.

 

so there are many people who, have propagated this tree, via tissue culture.

your method of leaf cutting is new to me so respect!

 

i noticed that m speciosa, is a very easy 3 node cutting if you, use growth that has been produced in spring.

in other words, the first flush of the season, makes the best, and easy to strike cuttings, no hormones needed.

if on the other hand, you take cuttings at the end of summer, and even use advanced hormon techniques, your cutting are likely to never take root.

 

semi hard to soft is what you aim for.

 

kratom is an easy cutting!!

[john]

Thanks for the encouragement. Looks like the best time will be September this time. My tree finished fruiting and started flowering again immediately this year? It has only flowered in Dec / Jan before. I take it you insert 3 nodes below the propagation material?

[withdrawl clinic]

19 hours ago, john said:

Thanks for the encouragement. Looks like the best time will be September this time. My tree finished fruiting and started flowering again immediately this year? It has only flowered in Dec / Jan before. I take it you insert 3 nodes below the propagation material?

john, i noticed you filled out your climat field, thank you.

 

if you have a rifat, it means this tree can flower, fruit and vege, at the same time at different parts of the tree.

in oz they don't get regular seasonal rain, in many location, so flowering is when ever kratty thinks, she's able do do it!!

if you live in the north of nt, than i would agree with all of your statements.

 

edit:

forgot your q regarding propagating.

no, prepare a 3 or 4 node cutting and insert the bottom node only 5mm or so into the soil, use a humidety dome.

many people posted heaps about this here, pls search for old topics (we know the search engine can be a pain in the butt, hehehe)

Edited June 1, 2021 by withdrawl clinic

[john]

Thanks for that. I will try again. My tree is not a rifat. It is the green veined leaf variety. I bought it from Torsten over 25 years ago and took a marcott with me when I moved. The tree is now so tall I need a fully extended mango-picker to reach the lowest branches. I have tried cutting around trunk buds closer to the ground but have not got any growth. That is why I need a smaller one.

[Freakosystem]

Many species contain puritonic stem cells which are capable of differentiating into root tissue but not apical meristems. When you attempt tissue culture with species not capable of forming apical meristems, you get callus formation and roots but they never develop beyond this. Some can be stimulated beyond this with the application of hormones. This might be the case here.

 

I would have thought that leaf cutting propagation of Mitragyna would be well documented if easy due to it's popularity and the horticultural expertise the locals have where it originates.

[john]

Looks like the case - I only got one plantlet but worth a try. The root hormones for stem growth are a bit expensive for me . I will try some coconut juice.

Sounds like you have studied botany? Thanks for the information.

[withdrawl clinic]

18 hours ago, john said:

Thanks for that. I will try again. My tree is not a rifat. It is the green veined leaf variety. I bought it from Torsten over 25 years ago and took a marcott with me when I moved. The tree is now so tall I need a fully extended mango-picker to reach the lowest branches. I have tried cutting around trunk buds closer to the ground but have not got any growth. That is why I need a smaller one.

if you got it from tort, 25 years ago, than it is the rifat, a semi green variety.

 

no, i have heard stories that, the seeds rifat produced, created a deep red veined variety!!?

there are also reports of another deep red (almost going toward purple) strain in oz, this one has a different leaf shape compared to our rifat.

some people think the "red" strains are more potent.

 

and yes it's a fast grower, most of my trees died from lack of water, but the one close to the septic survived.

it even survives mild frosts!!

 

so john you got a rifat!

Edited June 4, 2021 by withdrawl clinic

[john]

So this means I may get a red veined variety from seed? I have ben told it may be more potent?

I will keep at seed germination. I did get a few after I threw a heap of pods into potting mix but they died at the 15mm stage,.

[withdrawl clinic]

On 04/06/2021 at 2:52 PM, john said:

So this means I may get a red veined variety from seed? I have ben told it may be more potent?

I will keep at seed germination. I did get a few after I threw a heap of pods into potting mix but they died at the 15mm stage,.

maybe you could get a red, from your seed, yes! but some horticulturist, i spoke to about this, said it's unlikely. but i believe the original claim, rifat can produce deep red veined kratom trees!!

i never germinated my own rifat seeds. but knew experienced people, who did.

my location dosn't favor mitragyna, brisbane people get more often good seeds, from this tree.

 

imagen, when tort and darklight, worked with this seed, only one seedling emerged or survived!!

dl, is a tissue culture expert, and always shared her personal sientific knowlwedge, regarding her pioner work!!

 

kratom is an incredible plant with enormous potential, helping us humans and animals, trapped on this rock.

 

forgive my phonetic spelling,

i display, mild dyslexia.

and some people hate me here, because "you loser" is spelled with only one "O", and not like you loose.

 

Edited June 5, 2021 by withdrawl clinic

[john]

I have a friend with dyslexia. He speaks very fluently but is a bit lost with reading and writing.

 I have recently done a swap with Torsten with these seeds. I will have to enquire if he had some luck.

 Good to hear I am not the only one having trouble with these seeds.

I haven't worked out the meaning of your last sentence yet. My sense of humor is not the sharpest.

I have heard that Mitra has been used successfully to get off opiates? I had to come off fentanyl patches 5 years ago but did it by very slow taper..

For me they should only be prescribed if I am terminal.

[withdrawl clinic]

On 05/06/2021 at 8:05 PM, john said:

I have a friend with dyslexia. He speaks very fluently but is a bit lost with reading and writing.

 I have recently done a swap with Torsten with these seeds. I will have to enquire if he had some luck.

 Good to hear I am not the only one having trouble with these seeds.

I haven't worked out the meaning of your last sentence yet. My sense of humor is not the sharpest.

I have heard that Mitra has been used successfully to get off opiates? I had to come off fentanyl patches 5 years ago but did it by very slow taper..

For me they should only be prescribed if I am terminal.

john, if you read this, give us more info, regarding you, using fentanyl patches.

 

i once cared at time for avery old man, and pallative care, put him onto fentanyl patches, i think he dieded from fentanyl, by him stopping breathing.

he's death was un noticed for a while, allthough, he sat with one of his cares on the same table.

 

i feel privileged to have had fantanyl once in tablet form, it was better than endo...

 

kratom, we protect, i believe herb plants will make a comeback, and in the future, will be, held even within the pharma sience world, as a better alternative to pills.

[john]

I doubt if you were on oral fentanyl as as far as I know it is not active orally; thus the patches or IV.

I had osteoporosis of the spine with spontaneous crushing of vertebrae in the Thoracic and upper lumber spine which damaged multiple discs and caused a lot of spinal nerve compression, contact and inflammation. Severe pain was my constant companion for over 10 years. They started me off on the  non opiate meds without much relief and progressed to opiates. Morphine at higher doses caused tremors and jerks. We worked out it was coming from morphine's metabolites not the morphine itself. Fentanyl has no active metabolites so we tried that. Over time I finished up on over 200 mcg / day  along with the pain it  took my life away for 10 years. Just zonked out and all effort going to coping with the pain. I was suicidal and needed to stop and with help from NA and GP I tapered by cutting off 1mm of patch each week or each 2 weeks. It took a couple of years. The fear and powerlessness over the need for more is not forgettable.

That is why I should not have it again unless I am terminal. Today I have a small dose of morphine and use the neuroplasticity and visualisation method referred to in Norman Doig's, "The Brain That Heals Itself". It actually boosts the bodies normal process of combating pain. 

So many people do not try it. It needs knowledge of how the nervous system works and how the body responds to pain so you can visualise.

[withdrawl clinic]

man, i feel for you, thx for going into details.

 

i hope the, new generation of pain killers (inspired by cone shells and blue ringed octupuss) will be available soon, and would love to volunter, to try them out.

 

[mcgrath111]

16 hours ago, john said:

I doubt if you were on oral fentanyl as as far as I know it is not active orally; thus the patches or IV.

I had osteoporosis of the spine with spontaneous crushing of vertebrae in the Thoracic and upper lumber spine which damaged multiple discs and caused a lot of spinal nerve compression, contact and inflammation. Severe pain was my constant companion for over 10 years. They started me off on the  non opiate meds without much relief and progressed to opiates. Morphine at higher doses caused tremors and jerks. We worked out it was coming from morphine's metabolites not the morphine itself. Fentanyl has no active metabolites so we tried that. Over time I finished up on over 200 mcg / day  along with the pain it  took my life away for 10 years. Just zonked out and all effort going to coping with the pain. I was suicidal and needed to stop and with help from NA and GP I tapered by cutting off 1mm of patch each week or each 2 weeks. It took a couple of years. The fear and powerlessness over the need for more is not forgettable.

That is why I should not have it again unless I am terminal. Today I have a small dose of morphine and use the neuroplasticity and visualisation method referred to in Norman Doig's, "The Brain That Heals Itself". It actually boosts the bodies normal process of combating pain. 

So many people do not try it. It needs knowledge of how the nervous system works and how the body responds to pain so you can visualise.

Very interesting, thanks for sharing John. I'm keen to check out the book mentioned. 

[Black Rainbow]

Some relevant discussion around mitragynine and other opioid receptor agonists here 

 

[withdrawl clinic]

hamilton, if you read this i, invite you to my place.

most of my kratom knowledge, has been lost on the internet, because forums did shut down.

[john]

Thanks for the references. I would have to be younger to follow hem all up.

Torsten advised that he had no success with the pods I sent him. He is seeding advice overseas as to whether they are actual seeds or spent flowers?

I have gone back to cuttings for a while. Do you have trees yourself?

[withdrawl clinic]

18 hours ago, john said:

Thanks for the references. I would have to be younger to follow hem all up.

Torsten advised that he had no success with the pods I sent him. He is seeding advice overseas as to whether they are actual seeds or spent flowers?

I have gone back to cuttings for a while. Do you have trees yourself?

i learned a lot from sab, and know how viable kratom seeds look like, but my tree doesn't produce viable seeds often, i think thats because of lack of water.

as, i said kratom cuttings are easy, if taken in spring, or early season.

 

iv'e taken many mitragyna cuttings, and at times the one's i though are not so good, took root, the best (tip cuttings of fast growing vigorous tips).

i learned heaps, regarding probagation from this plant, so have many others.

Edited June 11, 2021 by withdrawl clinic

[mcgrath111]

22 hours ago, john said:

Thanks for the references. I would have to be younger to follow hem all up.

Torsten advised that he had no success with the pods I sent him. He is seeding advice overseas as to whether they are actual seeds or spent flowers?

I have gone back to cuttings for a while. Do you have trees yourself?

I didn't have any luck either John. However, what you sent definitely had some seeds in the mix, I think germinating fromthis type of seed is very time sensitive (<7 week).

[withdrawl clinic]

On 11/06/2021 at 6:27 PM, mcgrath111 said:

I didn't have any luck either John. However, what you sent definitely had some seeds in the mix, I think germinating fromthis type of seed is very time sensitive (<7 week).

because, it's a very small seed, we could asume, it losses viabilety within 7 weeks.

but ther are many other factors at times at play.

i tell you mostly what i know of 1st hand sources...

 

gomoas had a big kratty tree in bris, it was a rifat, sourced from me,

he told me (maybe 18 years ago)e he just sprinkled the seeds (and all the other stuff surrounding the mitragyna seed capsule.

onto potting mix, and used a dome, and many sprouted.

[john]

Would you like some more? I collected some brown seed pods dropped under the tree and a few of something have come up. Could be speciosa?

[mcgrath111]

On 13/06/2021 at 8:20 PM, john said:

Would you like some more? I collected some brown seed pods dropped under the tree and a few of something have come up. Could be speciosa?

Thanks for the kind offer John, but my heat matts are choca block at the moment.